I Want To Go To Prison - Please!

[Keith]

As I am rapidly approaching my dotage, not in the best of health, I have naturally been concerned what will happen to me and how will I be cared for, as I do not wish to burden my growing up children with even more problems than girls of their age should have to cope with. The black hole in the UK economy and the scale of cuts coming down the pike do not also auger too well for future care for the vulnerable.<o></o>
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I am not alone with my concerns, so, consider this:<o></o>
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I propose that the Government put all the pensioners in jail and all the criminals in a nursing home. This way the pensioners would all have access to showers, hobbies, daily exercise and walks. They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment, wheel chairs, etc., and they'd receive money, instead of paying it out. Not only that, but they would have as much access to non-prescription drugs and alcohol as they need.
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They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped instantly if they were taken ill, fell or needed assistance of any kind. Bedding would be washed and changed, twice a week and all clothing would be ironed and returned to them daily.
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A guard would check on them every 20 minutes and bring their meals and snacks to their room. They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose. They would have access to a library, weight room, gym, spiritual counselling, swimming pool and continued education, all for free.
Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on request. Private, secure rooms for all, with an outdoor exercise area and maintained gardens.
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Each senior citizen could have a free PC, a colour TV, a radio, and free daily phone calls. There would be a board of directors to hear their complaints and the guards would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to.
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The criminals however, who are now in the nursing home, would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised, woken at 6am, lights off at 8 pm, showers once a week. Lie in their own filth for hours in a tiny room, have to pay an average of £1,000 per week for the privilege of being there cared for people to don’t care and can’t speak English, be abused or ignored by staff, have to pay for phone calls, share a TV in a communal lounge and watch whatever channel everyone else was watching, rarely see visitors and have little hope of ever getting out.
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Bonus: Think how much money that would save the taxpayer?


Does this idea have merit in other parts of the world too? If so, I reckon we should lobby our respective governments!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Prisoners have far better care than the elderly that we neglect in this country.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Sadly it is the same in Australia, the aged are neglected and are not given
anywhere near the respect that is shown them in some Asian countries.
Our criminals on the other hand get pretty much the same treatment Keith describes.
A very good friend of mine spent four years at Her Majesties pleasure for a
ahem, minor mistake with his tax returns.
His words "The only punishment is the deprivation of liberty and the people you are forced to associate with".
He spent his time on a prison farm, lived in a bungalow with four others. they had all the facilities Keith describes plus a barbecue where they mostly cooked their own meals. (their choice not compulsory).
He learned pottery and was eventually teaching other inmates the skill.
Not exactly Hard time!

 

[Cliff Beer]

I don't get it - I thought prison was supposed to be unpleasant. Really, really unpleasant. More specifically, a prisoner shouldn't be merely deprived of their liberty, but should also be under duress associated with forced labor, rigid rules, harsh living conditions, etc. Isn't that part of the incentive to stay OUT of prison?

Who are these weak-spined legislators, judges and prison administrators who gave in to this idea of cushy "rehabilitation"?

I fully realize it's much more difficult to manage a prison, and prisoners, under harsher conditions, but somehow aren't we lessening the disincentive to avoid breaches of the law by making the prison experience more tolerable??

 

[Keith]

That's about it Cliff. Due mostly to poltical correctness and a very liberal judiciary on both sides of the Pond, I'm afraid the tail is now wagging the dog as far as this matter is concerned.

Even the new Govt here, which has a 'flavour' of the right, balanced out largely by the 'left leaning' liberals have announced a reorganisation of tariffs which will see less criminals committed.

Hard time yes. Bring back Dartmoor Quarry!

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Sheriff Joe has the right idea YouTube - Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Chain Gang Tent City.

 

[Jack]

Got that right!

 

[Doug S.]

I like the way Sheriff Joe thinks!

Now, Arizona seems to be a rather "progressive" state in that it believes in sending PC back to the toilets where it belongs.

If we could just convince them to sentence the undocumented aliens that they hope to catch with their new immigration law, then place them under Sheriff Joe's custody, we could get something of worth out of them rather than having to spend precious resources to deport them. Make them the criminals that they are, force them to labor on chain gangs, THEN once they have produced enough value through their labor to deport them, do so.

I sorta like the way Arizona thinks in general :thumbsup: !!

Cheers from Doug!

 

[Dalton Veitch]

Keith, I like your thinking. You are making sense here; even in Australia we've currently got it all arse about.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

My dad is in prison, has been since I was 5. He's now 68 and they are looking to parole him just to get him out of there so they don't have to take care of him anymore. They couldn't have done this 10+ years ago when he was in better health and could actually do something, now they are setting him up for failure.

We shall see...

 

[Keith]

Hmmm, maybe there's a bit more to you not getting the Law Enforcement job than meets the eye... :shifty:

PS Brian, as soon as we're born we're set up for failure (unless you have a rich Dad) and the secret of success in life is the capacity to survive that failure

 

[Danny]

Can't agree with you guys.

Most criminals, here anyway, are basically losers without the necessary skills to survive ie literacy, moral, employment, social etc etc. And the majority are in for crimes that only result in a few months gaol anyway.

They will be released. Now that's something the pollies, media and shock jocks forget when stirring up public sentiment. They thrive on anecdotal stories of public enemy #1; Joe Blow the pederast, murderer, rapist etc etc.

Sure for serious offenders lock them up and throw away the key. I don't care if they are in paradise but just get them out of our lives.

As for the rest, which is the majority, I don't know the latest figures but it would be over 90%, doing whatever it takes to try and develop their skills to survive is worth the effort. If that means giving them a semblance of order, training and a taste of a better lifestyle why not.

Keep kicking a dog (or demeaning a person) and it'll turn on you. Or, as a civilized society, treat that high percentage in a manner that promotes individual development with the prospect of change for the better.

Believe it or not, most do change and stop committing crime. The earlier that change can occur the better for all of us.

 

[Keith]

Hmmm, try NOT kicking a dog and it certainly WILL turn on you mate...

Not talking just mutts in the dog world here but pedigrees with attitude.

Pecking order rules in the dog world. Show weakness and he'll have you as sure as eggs is eggs and the same goes for criminals and ne'er do wells. I won't use the over abused expression "ask me how I know" but you can if you like.

Like the scorpion said to the frog: "can't help it mate - it's in my nature"

What makes you think man is exempt from this fundamental rule? Are we really that arrogant that we really believe we can achieve God like status by saving the planet from climate change and make silk purses out of sows ears by kindness and not driving your 4x4 alone? By example possibly but that will take many more thousands of years. In the meantime don't please make excuses for the majority of criminals who know exactly what they're doing.

Surrounded by dark forces, terrorism, political shenanigans, do you really think good people have any patience left for your own kind, neighbours even who would rob, kill extort just because they can't afford a drink, television, car, food and it's your fault?

The message should be clear - you fuck up - you go down. This message in the UK is NOT clear hence my post which was, by the way, intended as an irony.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

+1 Keith, Dogs and certainly horses, in fact most herd/pack animals have a distinct and clear cut pecking order.

dvr, I'm not sure where you get your statistics from when you say believe it or not most do change and stop committing crime? My law enforcement friends tell me that their experience is that more and more criminals are laughing at the light sentences imposed by our courts and the cushy ride they get in gaol. And most do re-offend particularly juvenile offenders.

 

[Cliff Beer]

I kicked a dog one time that came up on my mom and was in the process of biting her hands and legs. I was 13 (a big 6'2" kid) and the dog was a 100+ pound german shepherd that belonged to the neighbors. My kick broke one rib and the neighbors had to take him to the vet. When they saw the bite marks on my mom they apologised profusely and that was the end of the matter. Guess what, until the day that dog died, if I merely glanced at him he would run away and hide behind a bush. He sure as shite never tried to bite anyone at our house again. Effective behavioral change.

The real problem with the "cushy rehabilitation" route is that it ignores what's called the "deterrent value" in criminal law theories. In other words, perhaps the particular criminal is somehow "rehabilitated" through this process (and just as likely perhaps not), but if the the whole imprisonment process doesn't appear to be really, really unpleasant to others who might be thinking about committing crimes then they're more likely to just go ahead and try it (the criminal act). This is particularly true for the casual/petty criminal. Said another way, if ripping off $300 dollars from the local convenience store could land you in prison with murderers and atrocious conditions, you ain't gonna do it. But if prison is more of a pleasant communal living situation then, well, you just might!

Prison should be really unpleasant, and it should be obviously unpleasant. I once wrote a paper in my criminal law class at law school suggesting that prisons should be integrated into shopping malls with large (thick) glass viewing windows for both sides to see the other. The guys on the inside would be reminded how nice it is to be on the outside, and the folks on the outside would be reminded how crappy it is to be on the inside. The law professor wasn't too impressed with the idea, but I thought it was pretty novel.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Cliff, great idea I'd have given you an A.:thumbsup:

And how about this for timing? This story broke in the local press this afternoon.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...work-camp-prison/story-e6freoof-1225912654914

 

[Keith]

Whereas I do accept that there are people the system fails and end up in jail, they still bear responsibility for their actions whatever the reasons for being there. I have never ever been near going to prison in my life and apart from 2 notable exceptions (both engaged in the ancient trade of smuggling) don't know anyone that has despite being on this earth for 65 long and extremely active years. Yes I've been close to the line many many times, but never stepped over it, and there's a very good reason.

For most crimes committed, there is a victim(s) and usually those victims are in some way vulnerable. In a democracy, the people consent to being governed and Law is the fundamental cornerstone of that democracy - break it and you step outside of the fundamental law and into another realm which is against the People. The People therefore have to defend themselves by isolating the perpetrators and depriving them of their liberty as a punishment for threatening our preferred way of life, not school, they've already done that.

You cannot vote for democracy with conditions and if you are not to fall prey to darker forces of totalitarianism in whatever guise (criminal and/or political) a hard message MUST be sent to those who would disrupt the People that there are no reasons on earth that would warrant an assault on their wellbeing and their God given right to live in peace.

Even after all the rhetoric, education, world wars we still have not even managed to defeat FEAR of crime in our neighbourhoods.

That should send a clear message to anyone who isn't a plank that whatever we are doing at this moment to control crime and administer punishment in the Western World, it just ain't working!

How on earth do you expect that we can respond to international terrorism when there are those within our own communities that would exploit us for their own commercial gain? When more citizens are getting murdered and robbed on our own streets than in the whole of the armed forces on active service abroad?

They used to call them Fifth Columnists "the enemy within" and if I sound angry about the activities of criminals and our seemingly castrated approach to them, you are damned right I am.

No smiley.

 

[Danny]

... I won't use the over abused expression "ask me how I know" but you can if you like...

OK, you've piqued my interest, how do you know?

 

[Keith]

Hey Danny, I'll think about it carefully because the answers always invoke some kind of combative response from those that have not had similar experiences and thus think that this stuff is made up or exaggerated just to reiforce an 'opinion'. It's not, but I have had 45 years of dealing with the 'general public' at all levels, not all of it savoury.

Plus military active service in the last of the 'colonies'

This has certainly given me an insight into human behaviour at many levels, and their capacity for doing harm to others in certain situations and the pertinent fact that 'evil' people DO exist and they enjoy being evil - a trait which cannot be expunged through kindness. To them, it's a sign of a weakness that can be exploited.

So, detail probably not forthcoming because there is enough to write a book but I would qualify this by saying that these people and actions ARE in a minority but exploited by the gutter media so that people's fear factor rises exponentially for commercial gain, with the unfortunate side effect of drawing in the weaker amongst us to both emulate and hero worship the sins of the perpetrators.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Hey Danny, I'll think about it carefully because the answers always invoke some kind of combative response from those that have not had similar experiences and thus think that this stuff is made up or exaggerated just to reiforce an 'opinion'. It's not, but I have had 45 years of dealing with the 'general public' at all levels, not all of it savoury.

Plus military active service in the last of the 'colonies'

This has certainly given me an insight into human behaviour at many levels, and their capacity for doing harm to others in certain situations and the pertinent fact that 'evil' people DO exist and they enjoy being evil - a trait which cannot be expunged through kindness. To them, it's a sign of a weakness that can be exploited.

So, detail probably not forthcoming because there is enough to write a book but I would qualify this by saying that these people and actions ARE in a minority but exploited by the gutter media so that people's fear factor rises exponentially for commercial gain, with the unfortunate side effect of drawing in the weaker amongst us to both emulate and hero worship the sins of the perpetrators.

Couldn't agree with you more Keith. +100.

There are people that are just simply evil, and enjoy being evil, and no amount of positive "rehabilitation" is going to do anything. These type of folks don't want to be "rehabilitated" in any sense of the word so it's a waste of time and money to try to do so. Their lives, and the social system around them, failed many years prior and there's no bringing them back. Only thing to do is to contain them in the lowest-cost manner possible, and if they're of the first degree murderer type then put an end to their life and get a little deterrent value out of it.

What failed here is not the judicial/prison system or something related to that. What failed (in most cases) was a) an early-life nurturing environment with caring family that didn't happen, and b) an economic and governing environment which didn't provide opportunities to educate and engage in productive civilized behavior.

Like you said Keith, a crime is not merely a violation of the law. It is an act of violence against all of society, and we're all negatively affected. The obvious ways are the economic cost to police, convict, house and care for criminals - money that could be better spent on people that deserve some help (the elderly, the poor, the sick, etc.). Criminals drain away public resources from deserving recipients - that's the real crime.