Is World war three imminent?

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Interesting summation by Larry Pickering.

In the “Desert Shield” Gulf War of 1990, George Bush Senior stopped at the border after chasing the cowardly Iraqis out of Kuwait. He resisted the hawks’ demands that he march on Baghdad, but George Junior had other ideas and in a knee jerk rage in 2003 he decided on an Iraqi regime change. That decision which resulted in his “Mission Completed” farce is the reason for the current Iraq chaos.
Doves are against all wars but a world without wars is the impossible dream only Greens dream. We were born with a war chromosome that drives an insatiable will to win... that’s how we have progressed in everything from sport to commerce.
Wise old owls are needed now the world is in turmoil but owls are a threatened species now the chips are down.
There are two very different theaters of war being conducted right now for the first time via internet propaganda. People simply don’t trust mainstream media any longer, newspapers are as good as finished and television networks and commentators have pigeonholed themselves into Left/Right dogma.
Three dangerous people are now in charge, Putin, Poroshenko and Obama, and it’s a perilous ternary of self interest that could easily have disastrous outcomes if the wrong button is pushed.
Let’s take Putin first. No-one has asked why he has marshalled his forces in the south east of Ukraine yet it’s obvious he is taking the most direct route to the annexed jewel of Crimea that he needs a land corridor to.
It is currently isolated and Poroshenko is determined to keep it that way because he, with Europe’s accord, intends to reclaim Crimea... and Putin knows it.
"This is probably the most dangerous situation in Europe since the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968," said a NATO official. "Realistically, we have to assume the Crimea is in Russian hands. The challenge now is to deter Russia from taking over the Russian-speaking east of Ukraine."
But it’s not really about Russian speaking Ukrainians in the rural east, it’s all about the Crimea and if the Crimea now belongs to Russia why shouldn't Putin seek to prevent Ukraine regaining it?
There is no road linking Russia with the Crimea, the only road is from Ukraine, so what the hell does the West expect Putin to do? Ask nicely if he can access his own territory?
Putin told Obama during a 90 minute phone call that, “Russia reserved the right to protect its interests and those of Russian speakers in Ukraine and to protect its Black Sea fleet in the Crimea”. Obama warned if he persisted, “there would be costs”, meaning puerile sanctions.
Obama can’t have it both ways, either he admits the Crimea is Russian and convinces Poroshenko to allow Putin land access or he agrees to Ukraine reclaiming it. The latter option is World War III.
Obama’s hawkish attitude to Russia is not reflected in Iraq. He has a political reason not to have troops there, yet if ever US troops were needed, and with immediate UN approval, it’s right now.
Australia and Canada are leaving the US in their wake with native common sense. It’s pointless trying to assist the Iraqis, they are mired in Islamic clans and will join whoever gains the ascendancy.
The Kurdish peshmergas (meaning those who confront death) will bravely fight to the death for their northern homelands and can be trusted with the weapons Australia is already dropping. They even withstood Saddam Hussein and his Sunni gas weapons. Given armoury they will be more than a match for the craven ISIL.
The peshmerga have never really been tested since a US led invasion toppled Saddam in 2003. While the Shias and Sunnis engaged in wholesale sectarian slaughter, Kurdistan remained free from the bloodshed, possessing mostly AK-47 rifles which proved little help after the Iraqi army surrendered their US tanks, anti-aircraft weapons and machine guns to ISIL.
Air strikes are a waste of time without troops on the ground relaying coordinates. One 400lb bomb for each suspected ute is an exercise in futility. (ISIL have already swapped their utes for sedans.) The free world is praying for Obama to act so they too can commit troops but Obama is busy in a bunker somewhere.
ISIL believes it has God’s approval to steal murder and rape and Obama must take the lead in proving them wrong. There is no time to lose and for every minute he equivocates the threat increases exponentially.
Islamic communities that have infested the West are excited and emboldened by ISIL’s apparent successes and they are clambering to assist.
Obama says he doesn’t yet have a strategy when there is clearly only one strategy available, ground troops supported by air strikes.
Of the three most dangerous people in charge of these two incendiary war zones, Obama is the most frightening.
 
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Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
Pete, I agree with most of what you say, except the media part. The internet (your video source is a perfect example) is no better, and I feel worse, than the major networks or newspapers in slanting the audience toward their own opinion or agenda. What's between our ears is the only thing that can possibly add any legitimacy to what ever there is out there.. The fact is, nobody and no source can be trusted, especially if it is tied to governmental sources.

I'd like to nominate a potential source of destabilization, and that is N Korea to you post above.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Terry, re-read my post it is not what I say, but the thoughts of Larry Pickering a well known Australian journalist.
I removed the video as you can see from my edit. Those of you who wish to view it just google the Pickering Post.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
:evil:

OBAMA should do this...THE U.S. should do that...THE U.S. should put boots on the ground...THE U.S. should blah, blah, blah.

Okay...why is it no one else in the world is being admonished - much less expected - to 'step up' against ISIS/ISIL? WHY aren't G.B., France, Italy, Germany, et al, being expected to throw their hats into the ring in the "boots 'n' bombs" department? For that matter, why aren't "ARAB countries" being expected to step up to counter the ISIS/ISIL situation?

WHY IS IT ALWAYS THE U.S.A. WHOM THE WORLD E-X-P-E-C-T-S TO HANDLE WHATEVER DEMONS POP UP 'ROUND THE WORLD...and foot the bill for same in blood and treasure as well?

Why is it THE U.S. is the country the rest of the world LOVES TO HATE...'WHOM THE WORLD ALWAYS BLAMES FIRST FOR E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G...until it wants its sorry butt rescued/bailed out?

Anyone 'wanna' tackle THAT one?

(Maybe you can tell I'm getting a little 'sicka' the whole "it's-the-job/duty/responsibility-of-the-U.S.-to-save-us-all" mindset the whole world seems to have...and has had for decades.)

Go ahead,:flameon:; but you all know what I've just said is true.
 
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Charlie Farley

Supporter
Larry,

I agree with your sentiments, but you really need to revisit an earlier era to understand the present situation.
You ask why, primarily, the major european nations, who possess substantial military capability in their own right, don't go it alone.
The answer is simple.
The Suez Crisis - 1956.
The last time the UK & France went it alone.
Your government pulled the plug...... both politically and financially. With dire consequences threatened
Threatened us with financial ruin.. and i don't mean the downturn we have all recently experienced. There was an unprecedented run on sterling, starting on Wall Street, which threatened to bankrupt the UK economy.
There were also apparently thinly veiled threats to future cooperation of all kinds.
I'm not about to post links to various websites, i'm sure you can all do your research yourselves.
But i will post the following synopsis :

In the era of the Cold War and with the world reeling from the Soviet invasion of Hungary, it would have been expected that Britain’s primary ally at the time – the United States of America – would have rallied to support Great Britain.
This did not happen – in fact, the opposite happened. Dwight Eisenhower, America’s president, was campaigning to be re-elected as President of America. The global image of an American ally acting like an imperial bully against a nation that probably could not protect itself against such a force was unacceptable to Eisenhower.

As the old adage goes ' Once bitten.. twice shy '
The American government at the time decided to take on the mantle of
' Calling the Shots '. Well, it still seems that that is the case.
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
You ask why, primarily, the major european nations, who possess substantial military capability in their own right, don't go it alone.

Where did I say/suggest anything about "going it alone"? And as far as going back to an earlier era is concerned, perhaps we should go back to, oh, I don't know, 1776 and/or 1812?

All that era-hopping for finger pointing purposes aside, I also agree with much of what you said - and we don't have to GO back to 1956. All we need do is look at today. The "red line in the (Syrian) sand" episode...Obama pulling the Czech/Poland missiles...Iraq, Libya, Iran, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Crimea, Somalia, N. Korea, the "reset button" with Russia - there's no end to it.

But, my point above, though, is/was that, although the world seems to be in total agreement as to the threat posed by ISIS/ISIL, guys like Pickering don't even suggest - much less call for - any "boots 'n' bombs" action by any nation other than the U.S. even though Obama is c-o-n-s-t-a-n-t-l-y calling for (maybe hiding behind the call for?) "coalitions" and "partnerships" and "consensus" and "working with our partners" and blah, blah, blah. (Although I have to say my own opinion is such calls are, on the one hand, more of a CYA, face-saving stall tactic by Obama in order to avoid taking any action at all on anything...AND, on the other, for use in the blame game if 'things go South' should action actually be taken. But 'mebbe' that's just me.)

So, in light of the above 'pleas' by Obama, your point that, back in '56, "the American government at the time decided to take on the mantle of 'Calling the Shots'...and it still seems that that is the case", would seem more like an excuse than a reason for other nations not stepping up today.

My own view is that, truth be told, today other countries are perfectly content to let the U.S. shoulder full responsibility for everything. Not only that - they expect it. History really has nothing at all to do with it...except maybe for use as an 'excuse slip'.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Pete, Larry, and all...I believe that we put OURSELVES into the "captain chair", so to speak, regarding the issue of "fixing" everyone's problems. We (and by that I mean our collective United States presence and actions, not just us as individuals) have acted as the world's "bully" so many times...sometimes to help other countries at their request, but more recently even doing so when they have not requested assistance...and so when a country halfway across the world needs someone to come in and be a bigger bully than the terrorists, naturally they call on the U.S., since our past actions would seen to indicate that we "relish" that role.

It's not just Obama....and as much as I hate to admit it, it's not just Gee-Dub, either...it's a long-term practice that IMHO started with the Korean "police action" and has now extended through many undeclared "wars", which were mainly just military actions initiated by administrative action. It's not a Dem vs Repub/left vs right issue, it's not an issue of constitutionality, it IS an issue of the position in the world that our nation's actions have created.

I find it incredibly heartbreaking when we go to bat for a country (like Afghanistan) and then the citizens (and sometimes the military) of that very country target us. If it were me running the country, that would be an instant "Get-the-hell-OUT" moment.

I believe our country SHOULD take the congressional action necessary to declare ourselves at war before we commit U.S. troops...somehow after WWII we seem to have forgotten about a declaration of war. I know it's currently difficult to know who to declare war against when you have a renegade terrorist group like Al Queida or ISIS, since we're use to declaring wars against an entire country, but perhaps our government could/would work those details out if they would just act responsibly and use the declaration of war process that we have in the past.

We have done this to ourselves, and it only took us about 50 years...well, maybe not, it's been going on for quite a while.

Doug
 
...somehow after WWII we seem to have forgotten about a declaration of war.


"After WWII"...good one. :thumbsup:

We are nearing the 75th anniversary of the allied non-declaration of war towards the Russians after they had invaded the other half of Poland
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Pete, Larry, and all...I believe that we put OURSELVES into the "captain chair", so to speak, regarding the issue of "fixing" everyone's problems. We (and by that I mean our collective United States presence and actions, not just us as individuals) have acted as the world's "bully" so many times...sometimes to help other countries at their request, but more recently even doing so when they have not requested assistance...and so when a country halfway across the world needs someone to come in and be a bigger bully than the terrorists, naturally they call on the U.S., since our past actions would seen to indicate that we "relish" that role.

I take umbrage re: the label "bully". A BULLY is never motivated by good intentions when confronting others. But, for the most part I agree with your underlying point...except for the "relish the role" stmt.


It's not just Obama....and as much as I hate to admit it, it's not just Gee-Dub, either...it's a long-term practice that IMHO started with the Korean "police action" and has now extended through many undeclared "wars", which were mainly just military actions initiated by administrative action. It's not a Dem vs Repub/left vs right issue, it's not an issue of constitutionality, it IS an issue of the position in the world that our nation's actions have created.

It's always been more the actions (or NON actions) of others, Doug, wouldn't you have to say?

I find it incredibly heartbreaking when we go to bat for a country (like Afghanistan) and then the citizens (and sometimes the military) of that very country target us. If it were me running the country, that would be an instant "Get-the-hell-OUT" moment.

I believe our country SHOULD take the congressional action necessary to declare ourselves at war before we commit U.S. troops...somehow after WWII we seem to have forgotten about a declaration of war.I KNOW IT'S CURRENTLY DIFFICULT TO KNOW WHO TO DECLARE WAR AGAINST when you have a renegade terrorist group like Al Queida or ISIS, since we're use to declaring wars against an entire country, but perhaps our government could/would work those details out if they would just act responsibly and use the declaration of war process that we have in the past.

Again, I agree with your underlying point.

We have done this to ourselves...

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Often the U.S. saw someone with a gun and the will to use it, and decided act when no one else would.


In any event, ISIS & ISIL have proven themselves to be a clear and present, direct threat to e-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y on the planet and need to be instantly "terminated with extreme prejudice" anywhere and everywhere they're discovered. The sooner other nations in addition to the U.S. get their heads out of the sand and decide to take direct action against those magots instantly when ever/where ever they're found, the better.

Obama really screwed up when he failed to order air strikes on ISIS as they were streaming out of Syria headed for Iraq. They were right out in the open with no place to take cover. But, noooooooooo. He dillydallied, dawdled, dithered and delayed instead. 'Stupid, stupid, STUPID. Air power could have completely obliterated the whole convoy. Buuuuuuut, I guess one's golf game does have legit priority over all else.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
While we are debating this yet another person has been beheaded by these dogs.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest said this morning "Our thoughts and prayers first and foremost are with Mr Sotloff and his family, we are not in a position to confirm the authenticity of the latest video.
“Any new video”, he said, “would be analysed very carefully by the U.S. Government and its intelligence officials to determine its authenticity." Yawn.
Islam declared war on the West years ago but the West is still reluctant to even declare who and what the enemy is! Now there’s a good way to conduct a declared war.
How much more of this Islamic decadence must we and others suffer before we act to obliterate it? Refusing to get troops on the ground immediately plays into Islamic hands. They believe they have the blessing of Allah and cannot be defeated so, until they are shown they can be defeated and easily, the atrocities will continue and worsen.
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
Larry,
Please stop digging an even bigger hole.
Relax and take on board the reasons why other european nations don't act unilaterally.
It's because of successive US governments..period.
We would be quite happy without your government's interference.
 

Steve

Supporter
Larry,
Please stop digging an even bigger hole.
Relax and take on board the reasons why other european nations don't act unilaterally.
It's because of successive US governments..period.
We would be quite happy without your government's interference.


That's a convenient reason to justify opting out of unilateral action but hardly sufficient or accurate. Just as an event in 1956 has no bearing in relation to current policies. Seriously, the Suez Canal crisis is a reason Why GB doesn't unilaterally act today? That's like saying burning the White House in 1812 was a reason to stick it to GB in 1956.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
We would be quite happy without your government's interference.

Odd...'can't recall reading about a single Brit of note who held that view in the early-to-mid 1940s. To the contrary, however, I do recall reading somewhere years ago that, upon getting the word about Pearl Harbor, Sir Winston Churchill supposedly said, "We have now won the war." But, perhaps that's just a myth. :shrug:

Edit: With that said, come to think of it, I'D be quite happy without my govt's interference over here. So, in an odd sort of way I guess we're in agreement.
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Odd...'can't recall reading about a single Brit of note who held that view in the early-to-mid 1940s. To the contrary, however, I do recall reading somewhere years ago that, upon getting the word about Pearl Harbor, Sir Winston Churchill supposedly said, "We have now won the war." But, perhaps that's just a myth. :shrug:

Edit: With that said, come to think of it, I'D be quite happy without my govt's interference over here. So, in an odd sort of way I guess we're in agreement.


I was curious as to whether or not I'd remembered the Churchill quote correctly, so I Googled it. 'Turns out my memory was darned close to 'spot on':

“To have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. Now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war, up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!...Hitler’s fate was sealed. Mussolini’s fate was sealed. As for the Japanese, they would be ground to powder.”
- Prime Minister Winston Churchill (after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor)
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
Larry, infact, we actually agree.
I am quite happy to see the UK work in harmony with the US.
However ( there is always a ' However ' isn't there , lol )
I'm sick to death of our country having to check with yours first, before we take any action ourselves. After all, we were around slightly before your country was.
What i would really like to see , is relatively rich countries like Germany & France, starting to step up to the plate. Germany needs to change it's constitution and start to do some fighting themselves. It's pretty poor that historically a country that made such a national passion out of fighting literally everyone, now shirks its global responsibility by hiding behind legislation.
BTW, if the Luftwaffe is reading this, i can provide my gps coordinates..but i dont live in the house, i live in the shed at the bottom of the garden....
 
BTW, if the Luftwaffe is reading this, i can provide my gps coordinates..but i dont live in the house, i live in the shed at the bottom of the garden....


Quite tempting... :sneaky:

But then I think a growing number of Germans including the Luftwaffe do agree with what you stated, so no provision of gps coordinates needed.
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
IT'S GONNA BE THE SAME OL THING ALL OVER AGAIN. Americans are not gonna do a damn thing until "name here" rings up another USS Maine, Pearl Harbor, 911.......Then we are, going to kill the hell out of somebody, declare all clear and wait until the next time.

Sometimes we ask for help, sometimes we don't.

Sorry fellas that's the way it is.

Russia is doing exactly what is to be expected, make hay when the sun shines. If bob had a couple of more terms they would be right back in Berlin. Until we get a President that pisses standing up the crazies and the thief's are gonna do what they do, commit mayhem and steal every thing that's not tied down.

And that's the way that is too!
 
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