Jag XJ13

[Seymour Snerd]

Just think of all the hours you have into your car...and that is a production unit...now bill all those hours at $100....

A really detailed turn key build will run 800 hours minimum plus parts........no different than a high end restoration..

I didn't formulate my question correctly.

What I'm asking is, how does his car differ physically from a "normal" RCR XJ13 build?

If I parked a typical RCR XJ-13 next to his, what differences would I see? I'm aware of the intake system. What else is different?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

its our body and chassis package....so only the details ...such as faux rivet spacing, latches etc

 

[Mike Blair]

I didn't formulate my question correctly.

What I'm asking is, how does his car differ physically from a "normal" RCR XJ13 build?

If I parked a typical RCR XJ-13 next to his, what differences would I see? I'm aware of the intake system. What else is different?

If you take an RCR kit add about 800 hours work plus $60k in parts you will not be able to tell the difference at all. If you skip the fancy intakes you can subtract about 30k from the parts. I will probably be somewhere in the middle when I get done.:laugh:

 

[Neville]

Thought some of you might be interested in a few more pics.

As you already know, I am building an authentic replica of the 1966 car and have started building the monocoque/chassis. The plan is to first build a complete chassis as a “trial” in sheet steel before we build one using the rather more expensive original-spec aluminium. It means I will end up with a surplus all-steel monocoque but I haven’t decided what to do with it yet – it will be a little too large for a living-room ornament! :tongue2:

When I am happy with the trial version and that all suspension location points
etc are correct, we will set it to one side and start work on the all-aluminium version.

The monocoque former ...

"Trial monocoque" - sills & floors ...

:tongue2:

This next picture shows just how cramped the seats in the rebuilt original are - I need to lay off the chips and beer for a while!

By the way - for all you fellow XJ13-geeks out there, you can see from the above photo that Jaguar Heritage have decided to renovate the original steering wheel. It is now rather more chunky, shinier and I don't think you can now see the metal sandwich around the perimeter of the wheel - in fact, it is now rather more like the wheel that many replica builders currently use from Mota Lita.

 

[Neville]

Looking at more pictures closely - the steering wheel on the original rebuilt XJ13 is a new Mota Lita wheel now.

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Neville,

WARNING - may contain items for terminally-afflicted XJ13 enthusiasts

that I am, and now you have got me going; I remember a display at Beaulieu (I think) many years ago, when I waited 2 hours after the end to hear the original started and driven onto it's trailer to go back to Coventry. I passed my photos on to Rich Dommers for his SCF website a few years ago. The Sports Car Factory - Leader in Quality Sports Car Kits

I had an XK150 SE in those days (when the A5 didn't have many cars on it) and was a JDC member, I remember being waved through the gate at Browns Lane when I needed spares at the factory spares counter, what a great feeling that was.

Getting to the point, all the prototype engine data on your site is fascinating and historically important, now I see what you are doing with the mono, as an enthusiast I would like to applaud your spirit and dedication and especially that you find time to post all this for us.
Keep up the good work.

Dave

 

[Neville]

I passed my photos on to Rich Dommers for his SCF website a few years ago.
Dave

The rebuilt car first was first presented to the public at Silverstone on July 14th 1973 at the time of the British Grand Prix. Presumably these photos were taken not long after that?

Interesting to see those 1970's fashions - did we really look like that all those years ago? Long hair, waistcoats worn like shirts, tight jeans and impressively-large flares - both on trousers and the XJ13 ...

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Neville,

The rebuilt car first was first presented to the public at Silverstone on July 14th 1973 at the time of the British Grand Prix. Presumably these photos were taken not long after that?

Interesting to see those 1970's fashions - did we really look like that all those years ago? Long hair, waistcoats worn like shirts, tight jeans and impressively-large flares - both on trousers and the XJ13 ...

Year I guess you are right, not sure at the mo, I'll see if I can figure the year out. As far as the fashions go, I daren't look at some of my photo's

Dave

 

[Seymour Snerd]

If you take an RCR kit add about 800 hours work plus $60k in parts you will not be able to tell the difference at all. If you skip the fancy intakes you can subtract about 30k from the parts. I will probably be somewhere in the middle when I get done.:laugh:

For that $30K that's still there after you skip the intake, what's it consiste of (in general terms)?

 

[Mike Blair]

For that $30K that's still there after you skip the intake, what's it consiste of (in general terms)?

Remember this is a rolling kit so you need to add engine,transaxel,tires,exhaust,clutch,flywheel,axels,starter,ECU,fuel and brake lines,injectors,swirl pot,fuel pump(s)lighting and interior.
If you went with all used parts it could be economical but would that really suit this car. On the engine estimate a basic rebuilt is about $4k but you can spent $30k for a full race type.
If you do ALL the work your self including the body and paint work I would think you could build one for $20-25k plus the kit. However, it is very easy to think of addition things that will increase that:shocked:

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Neville,
To try to check exactly when I took those photos, I dug out my Jaguar Driver mags. The editorial of the Aug '73 issue confirms 14th July at Sliverstone British Grand Prix, and it also says that 'Lofty' England drove a 'demonstration lap of honour'.

My memory had failed me somewhat, but don't worry, my memory is as good as it always has been! as it was not Beaulieu, but Woburn Abbey. The date Sept 2nd 1973, International XK day, reputedly more Jaguars than had ever been seen together before (500) according to JD issue Oct '73. Neither was it my XK150 on the day, but my white MkII 3.4, I can see it on the photo where the XJ13 is being driven off the grass. GFD393D with the boy standing in front of the GF, clearly I had intended to get that into the shot (cropped for Rich's website).

Another report in the same issue on the Midland weekend at Shelsley Walsh on 18-19 Aug '73, contains a picture of the XJ13 with Phil Weaver and others, 'this was the first time it had attended a JDC function and the interest it created was enormous, especially when Phil started the engine'.

quite the historian now aren't I

Dave

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Remember this is a rolling kit so you need to add engine,transaxel,tires,exhaust,clutch,flywheel,axels,starter,ECU,fuel and brake lines,injectors,swirl pot,fuel pump(s)lighting and interior.
If you went with all used parts it could be economical but would that really suit this car. On the engine estimate a basic rebuilt is about $4k but you can spent $30k for a full race type.
If you do ALL the work your self including the body and paint work I would think you could build one for $20-25k plus the kit. However, it is very easy to think of addition things that will increase that:shocked:

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you were including drivetrain in that 30K. Yes, that's about what I've spent on my SPF GT40 drivetrain, etc. Are there any "optional" (that is, relative to the basic intent of the kit) things you plan to do to make it "indistinguishable?"

 

[Chuck]

Looking at more pictures closely - the steering wheel on the original rebuilt XJ13 is a new Mota Lita wheel now.

That just seems wrong! But for those seeking to make a close copy, that detail just got easier.

I wonder if the MotoLita is just temporary as the original is being refurbished?

 

[Neville]

Neville,
To try to check exactly when I took those photos, I dug out my Jaguar Driver mags. The editorial of the Aug '73 issue confirms 14th July at Sliverstone British Grand Prix, and it also says that 'Lofty' England drove a 'demonstration lap of honour'.

My memory had failed me somewhat, but don't worry, my memory is as good as it always has been! as it was not Beaulieu, but Woburn Abbey. The date Sept 2nd 1973, International XK day, reputedly more Jaguars than had ever been seen together before (500) according to JD issue Oct '73. Neither was it my XK150 on the day, but my white MkII 3.4, I can see it on the photo where the XJ13 is being driven off the grass. GFD393D with the boy standing in front of the GF, clearly I had intended to get that into the shot (cropped for Rich's website).

Another report in the same issue on the Midland weekend at Shelsley Walsh on 18-19 Aug '73, contains a picture of the XJ13 with Phil Weaver and others, 'this was the first time it had attended a JDC function and the interest it created was enormous, especially when Phil started the engine'.

quite the historian now aren't I

Dave

Your memory is impressive Dave!

I was lucky enough to be allowed to make a photocopy of the entire XJ13 Log Book when I was at Coventry. Here are some of the final entries:

It says, "Taken to Silverstone on July 13th 1973 for show purposes & demonstration laps (British Grand Pix) also to Shelsley Walsh for Jaguar ... Drivers Club Rally (Aug 18 & 19th 1973) and XK Register Rally @ Woburn Sun Sept 2nd 1973 ..."

It goes on to say "Took it over to BBC Pebble Mill for television programme Thurs. Sept 20th 1973".

 

[Neville]

That just seems wrong! But for those seeking to make a close copy, that detail just got easier.

I wonder if the MotoLita is just temporary as the original is being refurbished?

Could be - I really don't know. When the car was shown at Shelsley Walsh in the summer it did have a rather nasty black leather temporary wheel which makes me think the Mota-Lita may be more than temporary. One thing I do know is that Peter Wilson made two of these wheels in 1965 and the second one graces his own car (a Frogeye Sprite I think?). I keep telling him that I will find a better home for it but he hasn't bitten yet.

 

[Mike Blair]

One thing I do know is that Peter Wilson made two of these wheels in 1965 and the second one graces his own car (a Frogeye Sprite I think?). I keep telling him that I will find a better home for it but he hasn't bitten yet.

Neville
I was thinking we need to get Peter to make a couple more wheels but he could probably comand a budget busting price. I do agree your new home for his sprite wheel would certianly be the most appropriate.

 

[Mike Blair]

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you were including drivetrain in that 30K. Yes, that's about what I've spent on my SPF GT40 drivetrain, etc. Are there any "optional" (that is, relative to the basic intent of the kit) things you plan to do to make it "indistinguishable?"

Alan
My intention is to be as true to the original as possible but I believe there is certianly some license to change a few thing to my taste.
One big thing to consider that often does not apply to other replicas is this: Since only one original car was built anyone that knows what it is will instantly know it is not real. In other words if you see one on the road it CANNOT be real. Of course most folks will not know the car and therefore not know what changes were made.
I am not putting fake rivets on the car. If you see my build log (which I should update soon) you will see my induction plans. My car will absolutely be close to the original green but I am considering doing the seats in a dark cinammon leather. Mine will be a road car with some fun days at the track.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

A very enjoyable thread...the XJ13 is really a magical car, with a great story...kudos to you folks for trying to recreate them. Hope I get to see one. One recreation from scratch per lifetime is enough for me.

 

[Neville]

Alan
My intention is to be as true to the original as possible but I believe there is certianly some license to change a few thing to my taste.
One big thing to consider that often does not apply to other replicas is this: Since only one original car was built anyone that knows what it is will instantly know it is not real. In other words if you see one on the road it CANNOT be real. Of course most folks will not know the car and therefore not know what changes were made.
I am not putting fake rivets on the car. If you see my build log (which I should update soon) you will see my induction plans. My car will absolutely be close to the original green but I am considering doing the seats in a dark cinammon leather. Mine will be a road car with some fun days at the track.

So true Mike. All of us building replicas do so in the knowledge they can only ever be considered to be facsimiles of the one-and-only original. The important thing is to enjoy the journey and the finished result. For me, the "journey" is probably the most engaging part of the project. For others, the destination (enjoying the finished car) may be of most interest.

 

[John Fitzpatrick]

So true Mike. All of us building replicas do so in the knowledge they can only ever be considered to be facsimiles of the one-and-only original. The important thing is to enjoy the journey and the finished result. For me, the "journey" is probably the most engaging part of the project. For others, the destination (enjoying the finished car) may be of most interest.

:thumbsup: