Joel K
Supporter
Yes, a dicey move for sure but I needed a totally flat surface to make sure the seat brackets were level! LOL.
Yes, a dicey move for sure but I needed a totally flat surface to make sure the seat brackets were level! LOL.
Joel K
Supporter
This post is a minor update, but for the sake of completeness I am documenting this.
Back on post #40 I started to modify the stock fuel tank in order to install a GM Gen 5 Camaro ZL1 fuel pump. It has an integrated fuel sender. I plan to connect the ECU to this sender so it knows when to trigger the EVAP leak down test cycle. This test is necessary for emissions compliance in the state of New Jersey.
This post covers the redesign of the float arm so it works with the way the fuel pump will be installed in the SLC fuel tank.
Here is a link to a short video of the new float arm...
Here is a Pic of the ZL1 pump with OEM sending unit float arm. You can see the float arm is configured horizontally so it swings up and out to the side. This config just doesn’t work for the shape of the modified SLC fuel tank....
First step was to remove the float arm. Had to gently pry float arm from the plastic fingers holding it in place. Pic of the arm off the fuel pump assembly...
Removed the float from the sender arm and mocked up a couple rods out of some steel wire I had lying around the house. Positioned the float straight ahead matching the slanted side of the float with the slanted side of the tank. Trying to keep as much room from the side walls as possible. On the 2nd try I got the shape where it needed to be in order to clear the tank side and not tap on the slanted front tank panel. Then bought some 3/32” stainless rod and made the final part.
Also got some feedback from Ken that keeping the horizontal orientation of the float would be ideal. So I mocked up a couple more arms with the float oriented horizontally, but due to the narrow shape of the top of the tank the float gets very close to the tank sides and I think it will wind up tapping the sides when the fuel sloshes around.
Here is a pic showing the new float arm installed on the pump...
This pic shows the orientation of the pump hat. It has a locating tab which will clock so it is perpendicular to the tank side and this way the sender is always oriented correctly in case the pump needs to be removed/replaced...
Pic of the float arm at it’s highest point outside the tank. You can see the angle and how the elbow is designed to clear the side of the tank....
Pic of the float arm at rest, it clears the back of the tank...
Pic of the float arm at it’s highest point, it clears the side and front of the tank and also clears the rollover valve which will be installed in the top hole...
The plan is to use the GM sender solely for the EVAP test, but may also use it for the fuel gauge as well. I understand the Centroid unit that comes with the kit is designed for the shape of the SL-C tank so I’ll try that first with the KOSO RXF digital dash and see how it works.
Back on post #40 I started to modify the stock fuel tank in order to install a GM Gen 5 Camaro ZL1 fuel pump. It has an integrated fuel sender. I plan to connect the ECU to this sender so it knows when to trigger the EVAP leak down test cycle. This test is necessary for emissions compliance in the state of New Jersey.
This post covers the redesign of the float arm so it works with the way the fuel pump will be installed in the SLC fuel tank.
Here is a link to a short video of the new float arm...
Here is a Pic of the ZL1 pump with OEM sending unit float arm. You can see the float arm is configured horizontally so it swings up and out to the side. This config just doesn’t work for the shape of the modified SLC fuel tank....
First step was to remove the float arm. Had to gently pry float arm from the plastic fingers holding it in place. Pic of the arm off the fuel pump assembly...
Removed the float from the sender arm and mocked up a couple rods out of some steel wire I had lying around the house. Positioned the float straight ahead matching the slanted side of the float with the slanted side of the tank. Trying to keep as much room from the side walls as possible. On the 2nd try I got the shape where it needed to be in order to clear the tank side and not tap on the slanted front tank panel. Then bought some 3/32” stainless rod and made the final part.
Also got some feedback from Ken that keeping the horizontal orientation of the float would be ideal. So I mocked up a couple more arms with the float oriented horizontally, but due to the narrow shape of the top of the tank the float gets very close to the tank sides and I think it will wind up tapping the sides when the fuel sloshes around.
Here is a pic showing the new float arm installed on the pump...
This pic shows the orientation of the pump hat. It has a locating tab which will clock so it is perpendicular to the tank side and this way the sender is always oriented correctly in case the pump needs to be removed/replaced...
Pic of the float arm at it’s highest point outside the tank. You can see the angle and how the elbow is designed to clear the side of the tank....
Pic of the float arm at rest, it clears the back of the tank...
Pic of the float arm at it’s highest point, it clears the side and front of the tank and also clears the rollover valve which will be installed in the top hole...
The plan is to use the GM sender solely for the EVAP test, but may also use it for the fuel gauge as well. I understand the Centroid unit that comes with the kit is designed for the shape of the SL-C tank so I’ll try that first with the KOSO RXF digital dash and see how it works.
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Joel K
Supporter
Time for the next update. Moving from front to back. At this point the front compartment, foot box area and the driver/passenger compartment assembly are pretty much done with the exception of mounting the pedals and seats which I’ll do after the body is centered on the chassis.
Now it’s time to finish up the fuel system area. Before the fuel tank can be installed I wanted to fabricate the fuel system area close out panels.
Starting with SL-Cs ordered in 2018, RCR changed the way they constructed the floor pan for the extended foot-box. On prior models, the floor pan would extend to fully close the bottom of the fuel tank area. If a customer ordered an extended foot box area, they would add a 5” aluminum extension to the front of the floor pan.
So starting with the 2018 ordered cars, the extended foot box became standard. RCR shifted forward the floor pan so the front of the chassis including the extended foot-box could be made from a single water jet cut piece of aluminum. The shifting of the floor pan forward leaves a 6” gap at the back of the fuel tank area so I wanted to close that area up with a floor pan extension panel.
Although it is not necessary to close this area out, I figured for a street car it would provide a bit more sound isolation from engine and road noise. Here is a pic of the chassis as delivered from the factory...
Here is a video link to the fabrication and fitment process...
Taking a page out of Scott Swartz’s build plan, decided to attach the rear close out panel to the inside of the rear chassis cross members. For the rear close out panels I purchased a 1/8” x 16.25” x 55.5” 6061 aluminum sheet and a 1/8” x 2” x 1.5” x 12” angle for each end.
For the floor pan extension panel I purchased a 3/16” x 7.25” x 72” 6160 aluminum sheet. The existing floor pan and chassis welds were in the way so the floor pan extension panel needed to be trimmed in order to make it fit flat against the bottom of the chassis.
Before trimming up the aluminum panels, decided to mock them up first with poster board. Once the poster board panels were trimmed and fitted I used them as templates. Here is a pic of the trimmed mock panels...
Before moving on to trim the aluminum panels I went ahead and mocked up the fuel tank brackets to make sure all components fit together well. The fuel tank brackets mount on the rear close out panel, so mocking these up helped identify exactly where the brackets will attach to the rear panel. I purchased 1/4” x 2.5” aluminum angles for the fuel tank brackets. Here is a pic of the mocked up brackets...
The floor pan extension is all trimmed up and ready to be welded to the chassis. I’ll have that welded in when the weather warms up...
I debated whether to weld, rivet, or screw the back panel in place. I like the idea of rivets, but if I had to remove the panel for some reason you have to deal with all the drilled out rivet tails laying and rattling around in the frame rails, so nixed that idea. Then if the panel was welded due to the heat of welding it may not lay perfectly flat against the rear chassis cross members so decided to just use tapped holes and screws to secure the panel. Will probably use silicone glue to seal up the panel to prevent fumes from penetrating the passenger compartment.
Pic of the trimmed rear close out panel held in place with clecos and ready to secure it with 6mm screws...
Secured the side angles with clecos to the rear close out panel...
Tapped all the holes in the chassis and secured the panel using M6 x 14mm steel plated cap screws. The places where there are gaps is where the fuel tank and dry sump brackets will go...
For the close out angles, attached the panel from behind with M6 x 10mm.
The short 10mm cap screws are secured flush to the rear close out panel. Did not want screw heads behind the fuel tank...
Once the bottom panel and fuel tank are welded up I’ll finish the install. Moving on to the brakes next.
Now it’s time to finish up the fuel system area. Before the fuel tank can be installed I wanted to fabricate the fuel system area close out panels.
Starting with SL-Cs ordered in 2018, RCR changed the way they constructed the floor pan for the extended foot-box. On prior models, the floor pan would extend to fully close the bottom of the fuel tank area. If a customer ordered an extended foot box area, they would add a 5” aluminum extension to the front of the floor pan.
So starting with the 2018 ordered cars, the extended foot box became standard. RCR shifted forward the floor pan so the front of the chassis including the extended foot-box could be made from a single water jet cut piece of aluminum. The shifting of the floor pan forward leaves a 6” gap at the back of the fuel tank area so I wanted to close that area up with a floor pan extension panel.
Although it is not necessary to close this area out, I figured for a street car it would provide a bit more sound isolation from engine and road noise. Here is a pic of the chassis as delivered from the factory...
Here is a video link to the fabrication and fitment process...
Taking a page out of Scott Swartz’s build plan, decided to attach the rear close out panel to the inside of the rear chassis cross members. For the rear close out panels I purchased a 1/8” x 16.25” x 55.5” 6061 aluminum sheet and a 1/8” x 2” x 1.5” x 12” angle for each end.
For the floor pan extension panel I purchased a 3/16” x 7.25” x 72” 6160 aluminum sheet. The existing floor pan and chassis welds were in the way so the floor pan extension panel needed to be trimmed in order to make it fit flat against the bottom of the chassis.
Before trimming up the aluminum panels, decided to mock them up first with poster board. Once the poster board panels were trimmed and fitted I used them as templates. Here is a pic of the trimmed mock panels...
Before moving on to trim the aluminum panels I went ahead and mocked up the fuel tank brackets to make sure all components fit together well. The fuel tank brackets mount on the rear close out panel, so mocking these up helped identify exactly where the brackets will attach to the rear panel. I purchased 1/4” x 2.5” aluminum angles for the fuel tank brackets. Here is a pic of the mocked up brackets...
The floor pan extension is all trimmed up and ready to be welded to the chassis. I’ll have that welded in when the weather warms up...
I debated whether to weld, rivet, or screw the back panel in place. I like the idea of rivets, but if I had to remove the panel for some reason you have to deal with all the drilled out rivet tails laying and rattling around in the frame rails, so nixed that idea. Then if the panel was welded due to the heat of welding it may not lay perfectly flat against the rear chassis cross members so decided to just use tapped holes and screws to secure the panel. Will probably use silicone glue to seal up the panel to prevent fumes from penetrating the passenger compartment.
Pic of the trimmed rear close out panel held in place with clecos and ready to secure it with 6mm screws...
Secured the side angles with clecos to the rear close out panel...
Tapped all the holes in the chassis and secured the panel using M6 x 14mm steel plated cap screws. The places where there are gaps is where the fuel tank and dry sump brackets will go...
For the close out angles, attached the panel from behind with M6 x 10mm.
The short 10mm cap screws are secured flush to the rear close out panel. Did not want screw heads behind the fuel tank...
Once the bottom panel and fuel tank are welded up I’ll finish the install. Moving on to the brakes next.
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Joel,
You may have covered this and I missed it but I would suggest that you use some type of fuel rated sealant to seal the floor pan to the aluminum cross members of the frame before you install the tank. The weld beads are not continuous and if any fuel does manage to leak and pool up in front of the tank it could migrate under the frame cross member and into the cockpit. I ran a bead of automotive seam sealer that is rated for fuel all along mine between the weld beads under the tank as well as along the outside under the coolant tubes on both sides. Better safe than sorry.
Not a very good pic but this shows one of the sealant beads under the coolant tube:
Also, love the close out panels. Plenty of fasteners, those should never rattle!! One of my mottos when designing industrial machine tools is "fasteners are cheap but problems are expensive".
You may have covered this and I missed it but I would suggest that you use some type of fuel rated sealant to seal the floor pan to the aluminum cross members of the frame before you install the tank. The weld beads are not continuous and if any fuel does manage to leak and pool up in front of the tank it could migrate under the frame cross member and into the cockpit. I ran a bead of automotive seam sealer that is rated for fuel all along mine between the weld beads under the tank as well as along the outside under the coolant tubes on both sides. Better safe than sorry.
Not a very good pic but this shows one of the sealant beads under the coolant tube:
Also, love the close out panels. Plenty of fasteners, those should never rattle!! One of my mottos when designing industrial machine tools is "fasteners are cheap but problems are expensive".
Joel K
Supporter
Thanks Kurt, I was intending to seal the area up but did not think about the sealer being rated for fuel. Do you have a specifit Product you recommend?
The tank is at the welder so looking to finish this step up when it comes back.
Joel,
I used Dynatron seam sealer. It is made by 3M, resistant to fuel, and what I have always used with good results on car restorations and body panel replacement. It comes in a “caulking” style tube so it is easy to apply.
Joel K
Supporter
Another bracket done and another step forward on the build. Next up was to fabricate a dry sump tank mounting bracket. A number of builders mount the dry sump as follows:
1)In between the rear frame rails and behind the fuel tank
2)Outside the frame rail and in front of the rear tire
3)Outside the frame rail and inside the concave area of the rear vent opening.
In my case the supercharger heat exchanger sits in front of the rear tires and a tank the size I need would be either too wide or too tall to fit more forward between the frame and the concave area in front of the rear vent so decided on option 1 and mount it between the rear frame rails behind the passenger side fuel tank close out panel.
The stock LT4 Corvette oil capacity is 2.3 gallons so that was the minimum size I wanted to use. There are a couple manufacturers who make a z06 tank with a 2.3 gallon capacity, but they would be a good inch too tall in the preferred location so needed to find a tank with that capacity but a bit shorter.
Here is a link to a video of the install...
Turns out Aviaid makes a 7.5” diameter tank which can be ordered to hold 2.5 gallons. I also wanted to fit the oil tank inside the frame rails for added protection of a side impact. To insure the Aviaid tank fit before ordering it I mocked up the tank based on the dimensions provided by the manufacturer. I love arts and crafts! Pic of the mocked up tank...
Pic of the mocked up tank placed between the frame rails, a tight but a good fit. Once I confirmed the mocked up the tank fit well in the chassis I placed the order with Aviaid...
The other consideration to mounting the tank is that I needed to run the cooling line from the engine then down behind the dry sump tank. This requires 2” of space behind the tank/bracket assembly and the rear fuel tank area close out panel.
One approach was to mount the tank via some stand-offs or square tubing attached directly to the rear fuel tank area close out panel. Because the 1/8” thick close out panel is securely mounted to the frame rails I thought it could handle the weight of the tank. However, I also thought in the case of an accident I did not want the tank pushing directly on the rear close out panel which would push directly on the fuel tank. Preferably I’d like some space between the dry sump bracket and the rear close out panel.
This is one of the initial designs of the dry sump bracket. You can see the pvc mock up of the cooling tube behind the tank. Needing to provide enough space for the cooling tube helped drive the decision to mount the rear close out panel to the inside of the fuel tank area...
This is the final tank bracket design. Haven’t made a final decision, but it can be bolted either to or through the frame rails providing a secure way to mount the tank...
Fabricated the aluminum bracket with a hand jig saw and cleaned it up on the mill. I came up with the square bracket design to make it easier to mount plumb on the chassis. By doing this I could easily locate the holes for the tank bracket mounts since the bottom of the bracket and tank drain plug are on the same plane. Pic of the tank attached to the mounting bracket...
Used a square block of aluminum as a drill guide to insure the bolt holes are drilled perfectly square through the chassis. This is in case I decide to run bolts all the way through...
Clamped the bracket in place after locating the left-right orientation of the mounting bracket by placing pieces of poster board as spacers to center the tank between the frame rails...
Pic of the bracket secured to the frame. For now, tapped the holes in the chassis, but may secure this bracket through the frame rail with longer bolts and locknuts or floating nuts...
Pic of the finished bracket and tank secured to the frame. About .25” gap between the outer frame rail and the top of the tank and a .2” gap between the inner frame rail and the bottom of the tank...
Last pic, you can see there is enough room to route the cooling tube between the tank and the frame rails. Just fits, whew!
I’m very satisfied how the sump tank fits in the space. What I continue to find is space is at a premium on the SLC chassis so planning out where all items are placed requires a lot of planning. This is especially true when you’re build includes intercoolers, dry sump system, power brakes, etc.
1)In between the rear frame rails and behind the fuel tank
2)Outside the frame rail and in front of the rear tire
3)Outside the frame rail and inside the concave area of the rear vent opening.
In my case the supercharger heat exchanger sits in front of the rear tires and a tank the size I need would be either too wide or too tall to fit more forward between the frame and the concave area in front of the rear vent so decided on option 1 and mount it between the rear frame rails behind the passenger side fuel tank close out panel.
The stock LT4 Corvette oil capacity is 2.3 gallons so that was the minimum size I wanted to use. There are a couple manufacturers who make a z06 tank with a 2.3 gallon capacity, but they would be a good inch too tall in the preferred location so needed to find a tank with that capacity but a bit shorter.
Here is a link to a video of the install...
Turns out Aviaid makes a 7.5” diameter tank which can be ordered to hold 2.5 gallons. I also wanted to fit the oil tank inside the frame rails for added protection of a side impact. To insure the Aviaid tank fit before ordering it I mocked up the tank based on the dimensions provided by the manufacturer. I love arts and crafts! Pic of the mocked up tank...
Pic of the mocked up tank placed between the frame rails, a tight but a good fit. Once I confirmed the mocked up the tank fit well in the chassis I placed the order with Aviaid...
The other consideration to mounting the tank is that I needed to run the cooling line from the engine then down behind the dry sump tank. This requires 2” of space behind the tank/bracket assembly and the rear fuel tank area close out panel.
One approach was to mount the tank via some stand-offs or square tubing attached directly to the rear fuel tank area close out panel. Because the 1/8” thick close out panel is securely mounted to the frame rails I thought it could handle the weight of the tank. However, I also thought in the case of an accident I did not want the tank pushing directly on the rear close out panel which would push directly on the fuel tank. Preferably I’d like some space between the dry sump bracket and the rear close out panel.
This is one of the initial designs of the dry sump bracket. You can see the pvc mock up of the cooling tube behind the tank. Needing to provide enough space for the cooling tube helped drive the decision to mount the rear close out panel to the inside of the fuel tank area...
This is the final tank bracket design. Haven’t made a final decision, but it can be bolted either to or through the frame rails providing a secure way to mount the tank...
Fabricated the aluminum bracket with a hand jig saw and cleaned it up on the mill. I came up with the square bracket design to make it easier to mount plumb on the chassis. By doing this I could easily locate the holes for the tank bracket mounts since the bottom of the bracket and tank drain plug are on the same plane. Pic of the tank attached to the mounting bracket...
Used a square block of aluminum as a drill guide to insure the bolt holes are drilled perfectly square through the chassis. This is in case I decide to run bolts all the way through...
Clamped the bracket in place after locating the left-right orientation of the mounting bracket by placing pieces of poster board as spacers to center the tank between the frame rails...
Pic of the bracket secured to the frame. For now, tapped the holes in the chassis, but may secure this bracket through the frame rail with longer bolts and locknuts or floating nuts...
Pic of the finished bracket and tank secured to the frame. About .25” gap between the outer frame rail and the top of the tank and a .2” gap between the inner frame rail and the bottom of the tank...
Last pic, you can see there is enough room to route the cooling tube between the tank and the frame rails. Just fits, whew!
I’m very satisfied how the sump tank fits in the space. What I continue to find is space is at a premium on the SLC chassis so planning out where all items are placed requires a lot of planning. This is especially true when you’re build includes intercoolers, dry sump system, power brakes, etc.
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Excellent workmanship as always Joel.
Joel K
Supporter
Thanks Dusty, originally I had mocked up the PVC pipe to run up and over the sump tank, but the LT4 ECU is so big it’s fuses would foul the vertical pipe so needed an alternative approach. Took another look through my archive build pics and got this idea from Grant’s Build thread. He did something similar in post 140 of his build thread. Grant’s build is really nice.
Joel K
Supporter
Thanks Hector. Absolutely, going to add a serious amount of sound and heat insulation. That will go in once I get someone to weld that bottom close out panel in.
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I did mine with the Engine in place, absolutely the hardest way to do it. Not smart !! I figure it was easier to ship the engine to Fran and have him mount it . Was not thinking at all. The bottom brackets to the engine mounts do not fit anyway , I will have to redo them, Live and learn.
Joel K
Supporter
As Huey Lewis and the News says It’s Hip to be square!
Disclaimer, I have no real world knowledge about full size auto alignment so welcome any feedback on the approach.
I have spent a lot of time racing 1/4 scale RC cars so understand suspension setting and chassis dynamics on the small stuff but never set up a full size car. Pic of my 1/4 scale oval racer with a laser alignment system. Being an oval car you have the chassis set up with left to right tilt, front to back rake, tire stagger, rear steer, adjustable top control arm angles, adjustable camber/caster, and various tire compounds. Pretty cool. Hopefully we run this year...
The goal of this post is to document the square-ing up of the chassis with some basic tools before the initial body fitment. At some point I’ll have it professionally aligned. As recommended, it’s best to confirm the chassis and wheels are square before trying to fit the body.
Here is a video on the process...
When I had the body on the chassis for the first time, I did notice the front left wheel sat a little too far forward. At the time, I had no idea if the tub needed adjustment, or perhaps there is a variation in the wheel base of the body. After taking a number of measurements I confirmed the wheel base differs by 3/16” from left side to right. The left side being longer.
When I assembled the suspension I did my best to match from left to right the number and size of washers in the suspension pickup points. After studying them and double checking for zero toe and also checking that the identical number of threads were showing for each rod end I realized something else must be off and will require adjustment.
Dan Carter recommended an article from Longacre Racing on squaring up a chassis. Turns out based on some measuring points I confirmed the chassis is slightly longer on the drivers side. I don’t see this as a major issue, other than by understanding these measurements you can then figure out how to get the suspension pretty darn close to square.
I used the two jig holes drilled by the factory on the top of the foot-box to locate a 72” level and took multiple measurements along the chassis to confirm where the extra length is coming from. I also flipped the levels to make sure there wasn’t any curvature in them giving incorrect readings. If there was I would average the two measurements, but the $20 Harbor Freight levels were dead on.
Pic of the level across the front of the chassis...
I confirmed the measurements by doing the same thing from the rear of the car. Mounted a 72” Level across the back of the chassis. The pic shows the various available measuring points used to double check my numbers...
You can see based on the drawing which chassis sections the extra length comes from. I picked up a 1/16” at the front of the foot-box, another 1/16” at the passenger compartment and the final 1/16” from the engine compartment chassis rails...
The next set of measurements confirmed how much the front and rear wheels need to move to make up the 3/16” difference in wheel base. Measuring from the rear hub to the back of the chassis and also to the back of the passenger compartment confirms the left rear needs to move 1/16” forward and the left front move 1/8” backward...
To move the front wheel I decided to leave the washers alone and add a full turn on the front most fork rod ends on both the upper and lower left side control arms. That did the trick for the front and pivoted the hub back 1/8”. I assume this will not cause any binding but not really sure.
For the rear, after thinking about it more. I decided to move the right rear back 1/16” instead of the left rear forward 1/16”. Updated diagram for the final chassis adjustment...
I figured any additional room for the tires at full droop would help clear the rear of the body. If it turns out the wheels don’t center well in the body I’ll make some further adjustments.
For the change I moved around some washers on both top and bottom control arms to bring the right rear backward 1/16”. Measuring from the front to rear studs, both sides now measure 100 1/16”. The ride height is set at 4.25” front and 4.75” rear with zero toe and zero camber. So, all is ready for the initial body fitment later in the spring or early summer.
Ready to work on the brakes!
Disclaimer, I have no real world knowledge about full size auto alignment so welcome any feedback on the approach.
I have spent a lot of time racing 1/4 scale RC cars so understand suspension setting and chassis dynamics on the small stuff but never set up a full size car. Pic of my 1/4 scale oval racer with a laser alignment system. Being an oval car you have the chassis set up with left to right tilt, front to back rake, tire stagger, rear steer, adjustable top control arm angles, adjustable camber/caster, and various tire compounds. Pretty cool. Hopefully we run this year...
The goal of this post is to document the square-ing up of the chassis with some basic tools before the initial body fitment. At some point I’ll have it professionally aligned. As recommended, it’s best to confirm the chassis and wheels are square before trying to fit the body.
Here is a video on the process...
When I had the body on the chassis for the first time, I did notice the front left wheel sat a little too far forward. At the time, I had no idea if the tub needed adjustment, or perhaps there is a variation in the wheel base of the body. After taking a number of measurements I confirmed the wheel base differs by 3/16” from left side to right. The left side being longer.
When I assembled the suspension I did my best to match from left to right the number and size of washers in the suspension pickup points. After studying them and double checking for zero toe and also checking that the identical number of threads were showing for each rod end I realized something else must be off and will require adjustment.
Dan Carter recommended an article from Longacre Racing on squaring up a chassis. Turns out based on some measuring points I confirmed the chassis is slightly longer on the drivers side. I don’t see this as a major issue, other than by understanding these measurements you can then figure out how to get the suspension pretty darn close to square.
I used the two jig holes drilled by the factory on the top of the foot-box to locate a 72” level and took multiple measurements along the chassis to confirm where the extra length is coming from. I also flipped the levels to make sure there wasn’t any curvature in them giving incorrect readings. If there was I would average the two measurements, but the $20 Harbor Freight levels were dead on.
Pic of the level across the front of the chassis...
I confirmed the measurements by doing the same thing from the rear of the car. Mounted a 72” Level across the back of the chassis. The pic shows the various available measuring points used to double check my numbers...
You can see based on the drawing which chassis sections the extra length comes from. I picked up a 1/16” at the front of the foot-box, another 1/16” at the passenger compartment and the final 1/16” from the engine compartment chassis rails...
The next set of measurements confirmed how much the front and rear wheels need to move to make up the 3/16” difference in wheel base. Measuring from the rear hub to the back of the chassis and also to the back of the passenger compartment confirms the left rear needs to move 1/16” forward and the left front move 1/8” backward...
To move the front wheel I decided to leave the washers alone and add a full turn on the front most fork rod ends on both the upper and lower left side control arms. That did the trick for the front and pivoted the hub back 1/8”. I assume this will not cause any binding but not really sure.
For the rear, after thinking about it more. I decided to move the right rear back 1/16” instead of the left rear forward 1/16”. Updated diagram for the final chassis adjustment...
I figured any additional room for the tires at full droop would help clear the rear of the body. If it turns out the wheels don’t center well in the body I’ll make some further adjustments.
For the change I moved around some washers on both top and bottom control arms to bring the right rear backward 1/16”. Measuring from the front to rear studs, both sides now measure 100 1/16”. The ride height is set at 4.25” front and 4.75” rear with zero toe and zero camber. So, all is ready for the initial body fitment later in the spring or early summer.
Ready to work on the brakes!
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Great job Joel, as always. Much easier to do on an empty frame, I had to do it with the engine, fuel and coolant hoses in place and it was a royal PIA.(I am always doing things in the wrong order) This may be a good time to check your wheel hub positioning relative to the frame , more importantly relative to the midline of the frame, that gave me major fits. Also I forgot, did you correct the front radiator box height ? mine was way off on one side, had to move it about 1/4".
Joel K
Supporter
Thanks Hector, I did level the front compartment when I installed it. Thanks to Ken Roberts for documenting this before I started drilling the mounting holes in the chassis. Since my car was crated none of the front compartment mounting holes were drilled out. Just small pilot holes marking the spot. Turned out one side needed to be lowered about 5mm.
Joel K
Supporter
Time to tackle the brake lines.
For a few reasons I decided to run my own brake lines instead of using the supplied stainless lines:
1)Unfortunately I stored some of the the brake lines in the basement crawl space and after 2 years the flare nuts rusted up really badly. Even after cleaning them up with a wire Dremel brush I was concerned they are really too pitted and should not be used.
2)Having installed power brakes, the lines needed to be modified anyway.
3)The clutch line interfered with the power brake vacuum bulkhead fitting in the front compartment. Did not plan that one out very well.
4)Not crazy about having the unions for the rear brake and clutch lines in an inaccessible location along the side of the chassis.
5)Having a fully customized set of lines is nice and always enjoy learning something new in the process.
The stainless brake lines that come with the kit are really nice and if my build was a standard config and I had not ruined some of the lines I would definitely have used them.
Video of fabricating and installing the brake lines...
So here we are, following a few other builders who swapped over to NICOPP and recommended it so decided to go in that direction.
Tools used for the job:
Titan 45 degree 3/16” Flaring tool
Titan Mini Tubing Bender 51503
K Tool Flare Nut Wrenches KTI4450
K-Tool 37 degree flaring tool
Speedway Motors 3/16 Inch Handheld Tubing Straightener
Harbor Freight Tube cutter
General parts for the brake lines:
50’ SUR&R Ultrabend 3/16” NICOPP Line
Speedway Stainless Flare nuts
ARP High Temp Hydraulic Thread Sealer 100-9904
Speedway 3/16 Stainless Steel Single Line Clamps, Pack of 12
Part #: 91031315-3/16
Speedway Dual Line Stainless Steel Line Clamps, 3/16-3/16 Inch
Part #: 91031316-3/1
Specific parts to connect the 2010 Camaro SS Power brake master cylinder:
AN3 to M12x1.5 Inverted Flare Stainless Steel Brake Fittings
Speedway Stainless Steel -3 AN Hard Line Tube Sleeve 2 Pk
Speedway Stainless Steel -3 AN Fitting Tube Nuts 2 Pk
Wilwood 260-8419 Brake Proportioning Valve
Wilwood Residual Pressure Valves 260-13783 to replace the supplied residual valves.
Decided to tackle the front brake lines first.
In general, I used the existing lines as templates and adjusted each piece to accommodate a number of slight changes. Used the tube straightener on the first section of tubing. Starting with straight tubing enables you to make nice crisp brake lines. It worked great...
Used the Titan mini tube bender and Titan double flaring tool which also works really well. Pic of the first NICOPP line, the drivers side front line is looking good...
Mounted the power brake proportional valve. Following in Johan’s footsteps and installed the proportional valve to the front brake circuit to help dial in the brake bias. Using a brake bias calculator the bias with Camaro master cylinder is around 63% front and 37% rear with no adjustment.
Pic of the front brake lines and tee installed. Had to modify the front passenger line to clear the AC #6 fitting...
Fabricated 5 brake line hose retaining tabs. The taller ones are for the rear brakes, the shorter are for the front brakes and the clutch line...
Moving on to the clutch and rear brake lines. Ran the clutch line through the side of the foot-box vs. the front of the extended foot-box. Easier to reach the soft hose in case it needs to be serviced...
Also relocated the brake line to behind the lower control arm fork. This makes installing the brake line through the front compartment easier...
Moving on to the front section of the rear brake line. It is a single section back from the front compartment down to the junction tee on the rear frame rail. Pic of the clutch and rear brake lines showing the elimination of the brass couplers along the side of the chassis. Using dual line clips makes for a clean install...
With regard to the rear brake lines, I was thinking about running them and the clutch lines parallel all the way down the side of the chassis instead of running the rear brake line on top of the rear frame rail. I guess this is done to better protect the rear brake lines from getting damaged by road debris or some other mishap. Not totally sure, but ultimately stuck to the original design and placed the rear brake lines on top of the frame rails.
Also stuck to the original design and routed the right rear line across the rear frame rail over to the passenger side. Another change was to the clutch line. Moved the kink from the rear of the line to along the tub so the clutch line sits higher along the rear frame rail...
Used a dual bend to snake the line behind the dry sump tank...
Installed the brake line hose retaining tabs with M5 screws. Pic of the rear brake and clutch lines. On the clutch line end I used a 45 degree double flare vs. the 3AN female fitting that is used by the factory. This way I could use the 3AN to inverted flare brake line adapter which came in the kit and a mounting tab to secure it to the chassis...
Installed the metric inverted flare fittings to the master cylinder. They expose a 3AN male fitting. I could have used 3AN flex lines or a 37 degree flare hard line coming out of the master cylinder. I chose the latter with the Speedway 3AN to 3/16” hard line adapter. Also used the K tool 37 degree flare tool to finish the job. Pic of the front brake line components including residual valves installed. Nice and neat...
All in all I am happy with the end result. Time to move on to the parking brake caliper install.
For a few reasons I decided to run my own brake lines instead of using the supplied stainless lines:
1)Unfortunately I stored some of the the brake lines in the basement crawl space and after 2 years the flare nuts rusted up really badly. Even after cleaning them up with a wire Dremel brush I was concerned they are really too pitted and should not be used.
2)Having installed power brakes, the lines needed to be modified anyway.
3)The clutch line interfered with the power brake vacuum bulkhead fitting in the front compartment. Did not plan that one out very well.
4)Not crazy about having the unions for the rear brake and clutch lines in an inaccessible location along the side of the chassis.
5)Having a fully customized set of lines is nice and always enjoy learning something new in the process.
The stainless brake lines that come with the kit are really nice and if my build was a standard config and I had not ruined some of the lines I would definitely have used them.
Video of fabricating and installing the brake lines...
So here we are, following a few other builders who swapped over to NICOPP and recommended it so decided to go in that direction.
Tools used for the job:
Titan 45 degree 3/16” Flaring tool
Titan Mini Tubing Bender 51503
K Tool Flare Nut Wrenches KTI4450
K-Tool 37 degree flaring tool
Speedway Motors 3/16 Inch Handheld Tubing Straightener
Harbor Freight Tube cutter
General parts for the brake lines:
50’ SUR&R Ultrabend 3/16” NICOPP Line
Speedway Stainless Flare nuts
ARP High Temp Hydraulic Thread Sealer 100-9904
Speedway 3/16 Stainless Steel Single Line Clamps, Pack of 12
Part #: 91031315-3/16
Speedway Dual Line Stainless Steel Line Clamps, 3/16-3/16 Inch
Part #: 91031316-3/1
Specific parts to connect the 2010 Camaro SS Power brake master cylinder:
AN3 to M12x1.5 Inverted Flare Stainless Steel Brake Fittings
Speedway Stainless Steel -3 AN Hard Line Tube Sleeve 2 Pk
Speedway Stainless Steel -3 AN Fitting Tube Nuts 2 Pk
Wilwood 260-8419 Brake Proportioning Valve
Wilwood Residual Pressure Valves 260-13783 to replace the supplied residual valves.
Decided to tackle the front brake lines first.
In general, I used the existing lines as templates and adjusted each piece to accommodate a number of slight changes. Used the tube straightener on the first section of tubing. Starting with straight tubing enables you to make nice crisp brake lines. It worked great...
Used the Titan mini tube bender and Titan double flaring tool which also works really well. Pic of the first NICOPP line, the drivers side front line is looking good...
Mounted the power brake proportional valve. Following in Johan’s footsteps and installed the proportional valve to the front brake circuit to help dial in the brake bias. Using a brake bias calculator the bias with Camaro master cylinder is around 63% front and 37% rear with no adjustment.
Pic of the front brake lines and tee installed. Had to modify the front passenger line to clear the AC #6 fitting...
Fabricated 5 brake line hose retaining tabs. The taller ones are for the rear brakes, the shorter are for the front brakes and the clutch line...
Moving on to the clutch and rear brake lines. Ran the clutch line through the side of the foot-box vs. the front of the extended foot-box. Easier to reach the soft hose in case it needs to be serviced...
Also relocated the brake line to behind the lower control arm fork. This makes installing the brake line through the front compartment easier...
Moving on to the front section of the rear brake line. It is a single section back from the front compartment down to the junction tee on the rear frame rail. Pic of the clutch and rear brake lines showing the elimination of the brass couplers along the side of the chassis. Using dual line clips makes for a clean install...
With regard to the rear brake lines, I was thinking about running them and the clutch lines parallel all the way down the side of the chassis instead of running the rear brake line on top of the rear frame rail. I guess this is done to better protect the rear brake lines from getting damaged by road debris or some other mishap. Not totally sure, but ultimately stuck to the original design and placed the rear brake lines on top of the frame rails.
Also stuck to the original design and routed the right rear line across the rear frame rail over to the passenger side. Another change was to the clutch line. Moved the kink from the rear of the line to along the tub so the clutch line sits higher along the rear frame rail...
Used a dual bend to snake the line behind the dry sump tank...
Installed the brake line hose retaining tabs with M5 screws. Pic of the rear brake and clutch lines. On the clutch line end I used a 45 degree double flare vs. the 3AN female fitting that is used by the factory. This way I could use the 3AN to inverted flare brake line adapter which came in the kit and a mounting tab to secure it to the chassis...
Installed the metric inverted flare fittings to the master cylinder. They expose a 3AN male fitting. I could have used 3AN flex lines or a 37 degree flare hard line coming out of the master cylinder. I chose the latter with the Speedway 3AN to 3/16” hard line adapter. Also used the K tool 37 degree flare tool to finish the job. Pic of the front brake line components including residual valves installed. Nice and neat...
All in all I am happy with the end result. Time to move on to the parking brake caliper install.
Last edited:
Joel K
Supporter
Thanks Johan and thanks for the help locating the correct fittings.
