Manta Montage T First Build

[Terry Oxandale]

I found I could not run an oil pan (even the shortest wet sump available) in my configuration (inverted 930), which resulted in a dry-dump requirement. This was partially because I was insistent in keeping the vertical angles down to a minumum considering the horizontal angles exist due to the engine being moved forward. I was curious as to what your oil pan relationship was with the ground or framing height.

 

[Eric Hardy]

Here are the pics of my oil pan and the axle shaft. I am really beginning to realize flipping the transaxle is going to be my best solution. If I flip it my the shaft will be almost level as opposed to a 3"+ angle.

I will need to raise the bar above my valve covers aprox 2" as shown in the pics.

What do you think of the front to back angle of the axle shaft? The centerline of the axle is aprox 1 1/2" behind the centerline of the upper.

BTW, the second to last picture is showing the angle of the shaft if I were to lower the driveline 3.5" The last picture is showing the level if I were to flip the transaxle, and the 6th picture is showing the current level.

 

[Randy V]

The front to back angle is actually very good. Particularly if the half shaft lays flat when at ride height. Universal joints and CVs alike will both be hammered to pieces with no angle of incidence between inputs and outputs as they do not distribute either the load or the lubrication.

 

[Eric Hardy]

Well inverting the transaxle makes the whole application come together too nicely not to do. I suppose I'm close enough to RBT to schedule a trip to Disneyland with the wife and kids and just drop it off.

The half shaft is in a great location and the rear mounting points on the TA line up enough with the existing rear brackets to fab a bracket and utilize what is there. I will need to swap out the lower plate with one that does not have the dog ears. Other than that I think it will work out great.

I do have one concern however. I positioned the TA in the approximate location it will lay, without the bellhousing in place. This allowed me to verify the location of the pilot shaft. It appears the shaft does not protrude far enough into the crank. the position may be off slightly because the bh is not installed but its no more than +- 1/16-1/8".

Any thoughts?

 

[Eric Hardy]

Thanks randy,

the transaxle may move back slightly, no more than one inch from its current location. I don't think it will make a difference.

 

[Randy V]

Eric,

Since the gear box was originally designed to work in the orientation you are going to - I don't think there are any modifications that you need to do other than flipping the carrier and ring gear.
I believe I saw some instructions here somewhere that tell you what you need to do to flip..

 

[Eric Hardy]

Ive been looking everywhere for detailed instructions or a thread on how to do it. I have even pm'd a few members here that seem to know what is going on. If I knew how to do it, I would post it on here, im just not 100% comfortable with the process. I read there is a factory bearing puller that is convenient to have on hand. Most importantly though if I take it to lloyd I can have him inspect the internals.

What do you think about the pilot shaft issue randy?

 

[Randy V]

I'll poke round and see if I can find the ZF flip info...

Your input shaft looks like it may be in far enough depending on the pilot bearing you select.
If nothing else, I would encourage you to reach out to Flatchat Chris here on the forum and have him machine up a pilot bearing like he did for my build:
Transaxle & clutch

 

[Randy V]

Here check his thread out.. It has some good info on flipping a ZF :

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-powertrain-transaxles/39678-inverting-flipping-zf.html

If you are uncomfortable with working inside a gearbox, you'd probably be better off farming it out to a local transmission shop or to a ZF specialist.

 

[Eric Hardy]

Thanks for the info Randy, especially the pilot bushing contact. Every little piece of the puzzle is a relief when found, having never built a car of this nature. I checked out the link for the zf flip a few days ago, I am going to take it to lloyd this summer as there is no one in Vegas that is willing to touch it. I have checked every local transmission shop.

 

[Phil]

Eric:
I read the latest part of your build here and it is very interesting, and as always there are the fitting problems etc.. The setup I have (302 & ZF -2 Box) required me to nip about 3/8 off the front of the input shaft as it was too deep into the crank. I fabbed a pilot bearing from some bronze bearing stock, and it all fit.
Do you have your bellhousing yet?, and if so take a measurement...if you need I could always drop a ruler on my setup and give you the dimension if you need it. As usual with these chassis and in a 40, packaging is always a concern...everything is tight to understate it. The flip is not such a tough ordeal, and I did it on two boxes already and no problems so far...just go slow and make sure all is right..check everything 3 times etc.
I am looking forward to seeing this project up and running.
Phil

 

[Phil]

Eric:
I got thinking...good info from Terry and Mick, you should be able to sort the suspension with info here on the forum. I was wondering what size tires you intend on using, width and diameter, and have you measured the mounting points as per the second page upper section that Mick posted. the virtual swingarm length and upper arm inner mounting height and length (moment) are going to determine your roll center and camber gain respectively.
You aren't far off from your photos.
Phil

 

[Eric Hardy]

Phil,
I had a kep bellhousing but I am going to swap it out for a quicktime so I can run an 11" clutch. I rebuilt the original 914 TA that came with the car a few months ago. I replaces 2 syncros but after it was all said and done I had minor leaks from the paper thin gaskets. I really think it is best to have Lloyd flip it for me and inspect it at the same time. If I take it to him it will save me enough on shipping to justify the expense.

Check out my new dynamic suspension coilovers. I have a few more used ones available if anyone is interested.

 

[Phil]

Eric:
I think its a smart idea to take it to RBT. These boxes are so expensive these days that mistakes really aren't and option...besides its your build.
I am running a KEP bellhousing with the cross shaft and release fork in the gearbox, with external slave cyl.. A lot of my friends that saw the setup as I was fitting it told me to go with the internal hyd. throwout, I like the shaft better.
I like those shocks, they will look good on the chassis, what are your open and closed measurements, and mounting hole sizes?
Great looking build...keep those photos coming.
Cheers
Phil

 

[Eric Hardy]

Phil,
I too plan to run the traditional cross shaft with a slave cylinder. It is actually cheaper for me to run a hydraulic throwout bearing but in the long run I feel the external slave is a better design.

I don't know what you mean by open/close measurements, unless you are referring to the shaft movement within the cylinder. The original suspension was 19" from the centerline of each mounting hole and my new ones are 18.5". The current mounting holes on the new units are 9/16" which is a bit larger than the original holes. Overall these components will be a relatively easy retrofit imo.

 

[Leon]

Hi Eric
How is your project going, anymore up dates or photos, its been a while

Cheers Leon

 

[Eric Hardy]

Sorry its been a little while since my last post. I have been working on the car but not as much as I would have liked. Had a few projects take precedence. Got a question to throw out there. I need to move my seats back further as I am not getting enough leg room. The only option I can see is swapping out the harmonic balancer for one that has a double v groove. There is a local company who does porsche v8 swaps and on their sbc they use a v-groove balancer from a chevy 292 inline 6. As far as Im aware the crank diameter is the same on both inline 292 and sbc 350. I have a few concerns regarding the application but my biggest one is having the balancer separate and get thrown through my firewall. I was told the 327 sbc also had a v-groove balancer but I have had a couple 68 vettes and never noticed one on them. Any thoughts?

 

[Eric Hardy]

As far as an update on the car. I took the zf to Lloyd and he flipped it for me. He told me the whole unit looked brand new which is very likely. I built some brackets based on the pantera to soft mount the entire driveline using poly bushings. I also ordered the cable shift kit from cnc performance parts and I have that installed. My shifter is a twm short throw from an evo x. I really like the design and function of the twm. Seats need to be mounted and a few other minor things welded and filled then its off to powder coat.

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Glad to hear of the progress.

 

[Eric Hardy]

I know it has been a while but I have finally got some time to start working on the montage again. My brother is a pipe fitter and structural fabricator/certified welder in Alaska and he will be in town for a while. I would like to take advantage of his abilities and have him fabricate my exhaust.

I have been looking into an 8 into 1 exhaust collector for a few reasons. i.e. I have the room, sounds really good, and would be a fairly unique addition to this car.

My current concern is exhaust sizing. Ive narrowed my header tubes down to 1.75 but I have not found any information for sizing the tubing/exhaust past the collector. I spoke to Chris Stepp from Stainlessheaders.com and he said most of the applications for 8 to 1 are so new and unique that he has no suggestions for sizing the tubing post collector.

Current engine is still the 383 sbc. aproximately 490hp (per previous owner), RPM's and torque specs are unknown. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks