Has anyone used or does anyone know of anyone who has actually used a Mendeola SDR transaxle for one of their projects? An in-the-flesh analysis (so to speak) would be great...
Mendeola Transaxles
- Thread starter WYLD
- Start date
BUMP!
I've driven a couple of sandcars with Mendeola's mounted in them. Both were S5's that had to deal with well over 500hp. Not one hickup and I was beating on the car. Once I tried to maintian a wheelie out of a jump and went WOT before I hit the sand. Just broke the paddles loose. The tranny took everything I could throw at it.
I'm sure they're road car transaxles are going just as tough. Let's hope they fit without modification.
Rich.
I'm sure they're road car transaxles are going just as tough. Let's hope they fit without modification.
Rich.
Ron McCall
Supporter
They've been working on that box for a long time.
they couldn't tell anything on prices yet, did that change after Sema?
grtz Thomas
they couldn't tell anything on prices yet, did that change after Sema?
grtz Thomas
I was told they will have two versions available. The cheaper would be roughly $11K. The other would be around $13K and with the extra cost you get better synchro's, a slightly different ring/pinion, and better gear set. Both final drives would be 4.11 At least that's what the salesman told me. I hope I got that right.
Rich.
Rich.
Rich,
I appreciate the response. There are several variables that don't allow for a direct translation from a sand box to a road box. Sand gives, tarmac doesn't. At least not on a decent road.
There is rarely any real driveline shock in a dune buggy due to its natural environment. Even if you floor it while jumping, when it lands full throttle, with those big pneumatic-cushion like paddle tires, onto that nice flowable sand, it takes a lot of stress off the drive components that wouldn't be possible on pavement. Not to mention a suspension set up that is completely at odds with what a road car tries to accomplish. This is not to knock your experiences or Mendeolas product.
With that being said, I like the large (proven) ring gear & pinion. This is essentially the same design as a quick-change rearend R&P. Anyone familiar with a quick-change knows it is often the strongest component on the car. I dislike that it doesn't use the proven gearsets and shafts from the S5. If it did, it would have the same dimensions, period. I don't like that it is only a 5-speed. 5-speeds were cool in 1983, in 2007 the average FWD 4-banger econobox is sporting 6 speeds. Not just for the "coolness" factor, but also for driveability, or establishing fuel economy rates in a small-scale production car. Which according to Mendeola is one of their reasons for producing this box, the kitcars/replicas and small-scale manufacturers market. The fact that they "introduced" this box at SEMA 2006 as a 'ready to purchase, fully engineered product' and brought it back to SEMA 2007 tells me that it was not ready for market. Of course, they were also moving into a new facility and transferring the production line around the same timeframe. I am grateful that they decided not to sell it until they were certain it was ready & reliable. It speaks volumes for the quality product they produce and their ethics in business as well as having a true business sense...in that a few quick sales will not do the company well if it ruins the reputation in the long-term.
This has not been a knock against anyone personally, or the company. In fact I hope that they do very well. I just hope that they are willing to respond with what the customer asks/wants, rather than try to "explain" to the customer why Mendeola knows the market better than they do. The buyers are the market. If I want a six-speed with my choice of ratios, for $11-13,000, I damn well better be able to purchase said box. That's just good business sense.
I appreciate the response. There are several variables that don't allow for a direct translation from a sand box to a road box. Sand gives, tarmac doesn't. At least not on a decent road.
There is rarely any real driveline shock in a dune buggy due to its natural environment. Even if you floor it while jumping, when it lands full throttle, with those big pneumatic-cushion like paddle tires, onto that nice flowable sand, it takes a lot of stress off the drive components that wouldn't be possible on pavement. Not to mention a suspension set up that is completely at odds with what a road car tries to accomplish. This is not to knock your experiences or Mendeolas product.With that being said, I like the large (proven) ring gear & pinion. This is essentially the same design as a quick-change rearend R&P. Anyone familiar with a quick-change knows it is often the strongest component on the car. I dislike that it doesn't use the proven gearsets and shafts from the S5. If it did, it would have the same dimensions, period. I don't like that it is only a 5-speed. 5-speeds were cool in 1983, in 2007 the average FWD 4-banger econobox is sporting 6 speeds. Not just for the "coolness" factor, but also for driveability, or establishing fuel economy rates in a small-scale production car. Which according to Mendeola is one of their reasons for producing this box, the kitcars/replicas and small-scale manufacturers market. The fact that they "introduced" this box at SEMA 2006 as a 'ready to purchase, fully engineered product' and brought it back to SEMA 2007 tells me that it was not ready for market. Of course, they were also moving into a new facility and transferring the production line around the same timeframe. I am grateful that they decided not to sell it until they were certain it was ready & reliable. It speaks volumes for the quality product they produce and their ethics in business as well as having a true business sense...in that a few quick sales will not do the company well if it ruins the reputation in the long-term.
This has not been a knock against anyone personally, or the company. In fact I hope that they do very well. I just hope that they are willing to respond with what the customer asks/wants, rather than try to "explain" to the customer why Mendeola knows the market better than they do. The buyers are the market. If I want a six-speed with my choice of ratios, for $11-13,000, I damn well better be able to purchase said box. That's just good business sense.
Just in response to Wyomings thoughts on the amount of gearbox speeds.
I would have thought the 'coolness' was in saying to ones mates "Ive got 6 or 7 speeds in my gearbox". While it does have the coolness factor at the local bar, reality sometimes says difference.
If you've got an engine that produces its best torque within a 500rpm band, then get the 6 speed box, otherwise 4 or 5 speeds are more than adequate. If you're racing, the extra time buggering around changing gears etc can be a sure time looser. Porsche were quite happy with 4 speeds on the first 930 and with the use of V8s as we all seem to have, we are blessed with a usually wide power bands negating the use of 6 or more gears.
I would have thought the 'coolness' was in saying to ones mates "Ive got 6 or 7 speeds in my gearbox". While it does have the coolness factor at the local bar, reality sometimes says difference.
If you've got an engine that produces its best torque within a 500rpm band, then get the 6 speed box, otherwise 4 or 5 speeds are more than adequate. If you're racing, the extra time buggering around changing gears etc can be a sure time looser. Porsche were quite happy with 4 speeds on the first 930 and with the use of V8s as we all seem to have, we are blessed with a usually wide power bands negating the use of 6 or more gears.
If you want a box to handle the power and more importantly the torque that many V8 GT40 replicas are now beginning to tote ie 500bhp PLUS and 470 lb.ft PLUS then engineering a six speed box that is short enough to fit a 40 is either v. difficult or v.v. costly.
In a car with a wet weight of 2500lbs, or say 2700lbs with driver propelled by a (relative to twin cam screamers) large torque rich low reving engine (say a stock LS7 505bhp @ 6200 and 475 lb.ft @ 4800) then the last thing you need is more gears.
The most likely choices if you want a new box seems to be a short list of two currently and they are both 5 speeders: Mendeola and Quaife, and may the best box win!
Just my tuppence worth
John
In a car with a wet weight of 2500lbs, or say 2700lbs with driver propelled by a (relative to twin cam screamers) large torque rich low reving engine (say a stock LS7 505bhp @ 6200 and 475 lb.ft @ 4800) then the last thing you need is more gears.
The most likely choices if you want a new box seems to be a short list of two currently and they are both 5 speeders: Mendeola and Quaife, and may the best box win!
Just my tuppence worth
John
Ref Wyoming,
Maybe not sand buggies but off road racing is far more brutal on a trans than a road car. Using a Porsche transaxle even heavily modified has to rebuilt often and then may not last. The races we run can be hours and the tires biting thru the whoops and from jumps is like a drag start. Picture doing that thousands of times. I ran a Mendeola in my buggy and it was great. I also got great service from Mike. Off road is why they have developed the large ring and pinions. They even used to modify the Porsche transaxle with a load bolt running almost on the ring gear for side support when it took a shock to stop flexing the ring and breaking the teeth.
Jim
Maybe not sand buggies but off road racing is far more brutal on a trans than a road car. Using a Porsche transaxle even heavily modified has to rebuilt often and then may not last. The races we run can be hours and the tires biting thru the whoops and from jumps is like a drag start. Picture doing that thousands of times. I ran a Mendeola in my buggy and it was great. I also got great service from Mike. Off road is why they have developed the large ring and pinions. They even used to modify the Porsche transaxle with a load bolt running almost on the ring gear for side support when it took a shock to stop flexing the ring and breaking the teeth.
Jim
JNielsen
I guess I forgot, that is forgot to remember, that the truggies and buggies running the offroad races are running Mendeola boxes. I agree with you that they are quite strong.
RamboLambo
Aside from the coolness factor, I am also looking for the ability to avoid the gas-guzzler tax in a small-scale manufacturer situation (the cost of testing and getting a series vehicle certified is astronomical, which is why Warren Mosler has not re-certified the MT900 for the LS7, simply because the amount of roadcar to racecars built is negligible) as well as driveability and yes, the cachet of building a series of bona-fide 200 mph+ streetcars. I wouldn't care to drive a high-revving multi-cam engine or even a torque-monster V8 to 200mph with "only" a 4/5 speed. I can't imagine that the engine would like being near redline for minutes at a time on a full-speed blast. With a race engine, that is another matter entirely. Most race teams build a new engine for every race. How many owners of exotics would care to buy a new $45,000 engine every time they "exercise" their car on the track?
JohnLowe
I can appreciate for the needs of all the GT40 enthusiasts and builders, that a transaxle that fits within your chassis and bodywork is a concern. For the rest of us in the kitcar/replicar/exotic car world, only having the choices of a transaxle that will fit in the GT40 is annoying. Aside from the XTrac 6012 and the GearFox T750/T900, there are no "off-the-shelf" gearboxes available. The XTrac is being offered at $25,000 per unit. I have no idea how much the GearFox box is going to cost, but I estimate around $20,000 per unit. Converting a Porsche gearbox offends my sensibilities as a potential manufacturer, not to mention has it's own downturns for a production car (ie, driving the ring from the coast side, rather than the drive side, due to flipping the unit for mid-mounted use). I went through an estimate & analysis with Tremec regarding the design & production of a series of transaxles using repackaged T56 internals, and my costs were still going to be almost $20,000 per box. A gearbox being offered in the $11-13,000 price range is much more reasonable, considering the price for a crate LS7 is $12-14,000.
I really do appreciate the feedback on this forum. I too love GT40s, but my initial reason in joining was to find alternatives to the ubiquitous ZF and Porsche transaxles.
I guess I forgot, that is forgot to remember, that the truggies and buggies running the offroad races are running Mendeola boxes. I agree with you that they are quite strong.
RamboLambo
Aside from the coolness factor, I am also looking for the ability to avoid the gas-guzzler tax in a small-scale manufacturer situation (the cost of testing and getting a series vehicle certified is astronomical, which is why Warren Mosler has not re-certified the MT900 for the LS7, simply because the amount of roadcar to racecars built is negligible) as well as driveability and yes, the cachet of building a series of bona-fide 200 mph+ streetcars. I wouldn't care to drive a high-revving multi-cam engine or even a torque-monster V8 to 200mph with "only" a 4/5 speed. I can't imagine that the engine would like being near redline for minutes at a time on a full-speed blast. With a race engine, that is another matter entirely. Most race teams build a new engine for every race. How many owners of exotics would care to buy a new $45,000 engine every time they "exercise" their car on the track?
JohnLowe
I can appreciate for the needs of all the GT40 enthusiasts and builders, that a transaxle that fits within your chassis and bodywork is a concern. For the rest of us in the kitcar/replicar/exotic car world, only having the choices of a transaxle that will fit in the GT40 is annoying. Aside from the XTrac 6012 and the GearFox T750/T900, there are no "off-the-shelf" gearboxes available. The XTrac is being offered at $25,000 per unit. I have no idea how much the GearFox box is going to cost, but I estimate around $20,000 per unit. Converting a Porsche gearbox offends my sensibilities as a potential manufacturer, not to mention has it's own downturns for a production car (ie, driving the ring from the coast side, rather than the drive side, due to flipping the unit for mid-mounted use). I went through an estimate & analysis with Tremec regarding the design & production of a series of transaxles using repackaged T56 internals, and my costs were still going to be almost $20,000 per box. A gearbox being offered in the $11-13,000 price range is much more reasonable, considering the price for a crate LS7 is $12-14,000.
I really do appreciate the feedback on this forum. I too love GT40s, but my initial reason in joining was to find alternatives to the ubiquitous ZF and Porsche transaxles.
Hi
I believe that Fran at RCR is buying the box used in the "new" Ford GT to try out in his superlite coupe, perhaps a call to him might help.
You may also wish to check this 6 speed sequential box out from Elite Transmissions ( eliteracingtransmmisions.com ) they claimed it would handle the power and torque of the LS7 I intend using.
John
I believe that Fran at RCR is buying the box used in the "new" Ford GT to try out in his superlite coupe, perhaps a call to him might help.
You may also wish to check this 6 speed sequential box out from Elite Transmissions ( eliteracingtransmmisions.com ) they claimed it would handle the power and torque of the LS7 I intend using.
John