Message for Dalton
- Thread starter Keith1
- Start date
Keith,
My humble apologies... I misread oxygen bottle for beer bottle...
Just keep on doin' what you're doin' mate, and don't spare the Wadworths 6X (or whatever your favorite tipple might be) :thumbsup:
Oh, and where's the piccies of you playing with your new 30' 11 1/2" toy?
Cheers,
Graham.
My humble apologies... I misread oxygen bottle for beer bottle...
Just keep on doin' what you're doin' mate, and don't spare the Wadworths 6X (or whatever your favorite tipple might be) :thumbsup:
Oh, and where's the piccies of you playing with your new 30' 11 1/2" toy?
Cheers,
Graham.
Ah, that. Well, right now she is sitting in a yard on Hayling Island with her bottom peeled right off...
Regretfully, she exhibited a rather terminal attack of the dreaded plastic worm, so, rather than pilot a potential dive site, I elected to spend a rather large portion of my daughters' inheritances on restoring said vessel to her former glory, which, strangely enough I may not even be fit enough to enjoy next year - we shall see.
For all that money (£42,000 and counting) I could have had a '40 (ish) but have become so enamoured with the 917K that I could never have made my mind up. Yes I could - 'P' word, sorry..
Regretfully, she exhibited a rather terminal attack of the dreaded plastic worm, so, rather than pilot a potential dive site, I elected to spend a rather large portion of my daughters' inheritances on restoring said vessel to her former glory, which, strangely enough I may not even be fit enough to enjoy next year - we shall see.
For all that money (£42,000 and counting) I could have had a '40 (ish) but have become so enamoured with the 917K that I could never have made my mind up. Yes I could - 'P' word, sorry..
OK, thanks for clarifying that Keith. Now we see the real Baron. Funny, I was picturing a weathered old codger, crotchety, likeable, and still sharp.
Keep up the good work, Keith, and don't drop your oxygen bottle on the keyboard. And don't worry about spending the kids' inheritance; they can earn their own crust.
Keep up the good work, Keith, and don't drop your oxygen bottle on the keyboard. And don't worry about spending the kids' inheritance; they can earn their own crust.
'Plastic Worm' and (wrongly) aka 'Osmosis'
The damage from “osmosis” is not caused by excessive water permeation. There are no osmotic forces involved as the gelcoat is an absorbing material which can never act as an osmotic membrane.
Instead it is the process of hydrolysis, which creates the water soluble corrosive products which in turn create the familiar cavities (blisters in the gelcoat). Hydrolysis is the general term given to the reaction of any material with water, for example organic compounds like polyester resin, itself the main constituent of GRP laminates.
Once the cavities have formed, then excess water will enter giving rise to high moisture readings. This process may normally be slow, but the presence of free acids or alkalis will greatly accelerate it.
Osmosis blisters are not only a cosmetic problem. They are the visible sign that the hydrolysis of the polyester has affected at least one laminate layer.By the time the first blister shows, hydrolysed alkali products will have reduced the bond between fibre-glass and polyester deep in the laminate below the water line - in other words your plastic tub will start to delaminate - not something you want to happen at sea.
So, the process of repair is time consuming and expensive as the gelcoat has to be 'peeled' off completely using a special plane, then the salts of the hydrolosis have to be continually washed off at periodic intervals as they tend to rise to the surface again. Following this a period of drying using both infra red lamps and a new system called 'Hot-Vac' to completely dry out the whole structure.
Once the moisture readings fall to an acceptable level, (between 1 and 3% - mine is currently at an average of 22% - a serious level) then the drying and cleaning process is complete and we are probably talking up to 2months, then the gelcoat is replaced and the hull double epoxied to the water line.
With boats, it's not a question of 'if' a boat suffers from this process, it's 'when' and the earlier the boat the more prone it will be. Boats kept in fresh water are more likely to suffer.
That's it! The sum total of my knowledge and I have had to pay dearly to acquire it!
Plastic (GRP) is not the wonder material for boats that was first trumpeted. Steel rusts & aluminium corrodes and makes for an always damp interior unless comprehensively lined so that really only leaves wood.
Wood is good
The damage from “osmosis” is not caused by excessive water permeation. There are no osmotic forces involved as the gelcoat is an absorbing material which can never act as an osmotic membrane.
Instead it is the process of hydrolysis, which creates the water soluble corrosive products which in turn create the familiar cavities (blisters in the gelcoat). Hydrolysis is the general term given to the reaction of any material with water, for example organic compounds like polyester resin, itself the main constituent of GRP laminates.
Once the cavities have formed, then excess water will enter giving rise to high moisture readings. This process may normally be slow, but the presence of free acids or alkalis will greatly accelerate it.
Osmosis blisters are not only a cosmetic problem. They are the visible sign that the hydrolysis of the polyester has affected at least one laminate layer.By the time the first blister shows, hydrolysed alkali products will have reduced the bond between fibre-glass and polyester deep in the laminate below the water line - in other words your plastic tub will start to delaminate - not something you want to happen at sea.
So, the process of repair is time consuming and expensive as the gelcoat has to be 'peeled' off completely using a special plane, then the salts of the hydrolosis have to be continually washed off at periodic intervals as they tend to rise to the surface again. Following this a period of drying using both infra red lamps and a new system called 'Hot-Vac' to completely dry out the whole structure.
Once the moisture readings fall to an acceptable level, (between 1 and 3% - mine is currently at an average of 22% - a serious level) then the drying and cleaning process is complete and we are probably talking up to 2months, then the gelcoat is replaced and the hull double epoxied to the water line.
With boats, it's not a question of 'if' a boat suffers from this process, it's 'when' and the earlier the boat the more prone it will be. Boats kept in fresh water are more likely to suffer.
That's it! The sum total of my knowledge and I have had to pay dearly to acquire it!
Plastic (GRP) is not the wonder material for boats that was first trumpeted. Steel rusts & aluminium corrodes and makes for an always damp interior unless comprehensively lined so that really only leaves wood.
Wood is good
Ouch, that sounds like a long and expensive process for the GRP. They don't mention this when you drop by the Boat Show and look at the expensive craft you might buy, as I recall.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Boats kept in fresh water are more likely to suffer.
Are you saying that we need to sort out a salt water berthing area for your boat on the River in Bourne End ? We could build a small area around 35 feet long and say 15 feet wide and isolate it from the river, tipping loads of water softener salt tablets in every week. We could also introduce Haddock, Cod, Bass, Grouper and Octopus to the River Thames and sell fishing permits to offset the costs. Squid is a no-no though.
Are you saying that we need to sort out a salt water berthing area for your boat on the River in Bourne End ? We could build a small area around 35 feet long and say 15 feet wide and isolate it from the river, tipping loads of water softener salt tablets in every week. We could also introduce Haddock, Cod, Bass, Grouper and Octopus to the River Thames and sell fishing permits to offset the costs. Squid is a no-no though.
Dalton, if a GRP boat is properly laid up using modern methods (most boats that suffer from this are quite ancient in glass terms) it would not be much of a problem for quite a few years and even if a few blisters emerge, they can be relatively simply treated. But, without regular inspection to the actual gelcoat (yearly) then when this takes hold, the above process is the only way forward.
Mine is 34 years old and was kept in a fast flowing tide for 8 months per year, then stored ashore for 4 months, new antifoul laid on and then back in the water. Occasionally, they would scrape a bit off and do a moisture check and wouldn't you know it? Each time they did this they hit a spot untouched by the blisters. We grit blasted off 30 years of old antifouling before we got to the hull proper!
The ONLY way forward is to blast off the old antifouling every couple of years and see what you got.
David - cracking idea mate - but no doubt DEFRA, EPA DOE, RSPCA (fish have feelings too you know) MinAgFish and every other public body would require a licence and a Risk Assessment. That's easy - we catch - we cook - we eat. No risk to us but lots for the fish
Why you no likee squid? (Except for the obvious reasons) Flash fried - very tasty especially in tempura: Beat an egg in a bowl, add ice water then sift in flour and mix v gently. Don't beat it to death. Quantity of flour to suit your taste.
Mine is 34 years old and was kept in a fast flowing tide for 8 months per year, then stored ashore for 4 months, new antifoul laid on and then back in the water. Occasionally, they would scrape a bit off and do a moisture check and wouldn't you know it? Each time they did this they hit a spot untouched by the blisters. We grit blasted off 30 years of old antifouling before we got to the hull proper!
The ONLY way forward is to blast off the old antifouling every couple of years and see what you got.
David - cracking idea mate - but no doubt DEFRA, EPA DOE, RSPCA (fish have feelings too you know) MinAgFish and every other public body would require a licence and a Risk Assessment. That's easy - we catch - we cook - we eat. No risk to us but lots for the fish
Why you no likee squid? (Except for the obvious reasons) Flash fried - very tasty especially in tempura: Beat an egg in a bowl, add ice water then sift in flour and mix v gently. Don't beat it to death. Quantity of flour to suit your taste.
Ah.. good point Jack. The boat had a very recent survey with good results so I didn't bother with another one, that and the fact that the owners were very good people and had been very fair with all the dealings thus far. In hindsight of course it MAY have been better to have commissioned my own but to be honest, it would have cost over £1,000 (survey + hauling out & launching costs) just to walk away from it. So, I took a punt.
BUT having found what I found, the owners coughed up 80% of the repair cost and sent the money to me, no proof requested but as I said, they are decent people.
So what I have ended up with is a classic boat, one of only two left in the world and a 1st rate hull guaranteed for 5 years. This alone enhances the value by some 25% so I am actually ahead of the game now.
Lucky I know, but the fact that they were honourable people did feature in my decision not to commission a further survey.
I am a person that doesn't care much about the intrinsic value of something I want to own. It's not an investment to me, it costs what it costs, and it has interesting parallels with the value of GT40's which has been heavily discussed on this forum. Of course, had there been a few others knocking around I could have walked away and gone after something else. I DID walk away from sveral similar boats for price, provenance and tax reasons before settling on this one. You don't buy something like this without doubling the buy budget for maintenance, repair and moorings etc. Never ever go boating on credit!
The BIG question is: Will I actually be able to use it next year. Jury still out.
BUT having found what I found, the owners coughed up 80% of the repair cost and sent the money to me, no proof requested but as I said, they are decent people.
So what I have ended up with is a classic boat, one of only two left in the world and a 1st rate hull guaranteed for 5 years. This alone enhances the value by some 25% so I am actually ahead of the game now.
Lucky I know, but the fact that they were honourable people did feature in my decision not to commission a further survey.
I am a person that doesn't care much about the intrinsic value of something I want to own. It's not an investment to me, it costs what it costs, and it has interesting parallels with the value of GT40's which has been heavily discussed on this forum. Of course, had there been a few others knocking around I could have walked away and gone after something else. I DID walk away from sveral similar boats for price, provenance and tax reasons before settling on this one. You don't buy something like this without doubling the buy budget for maintenance, repair and moorings etc. Never ever go boating on credit!
The BIG question is: Will I actually be able to use it next year. Jury still out.
I agree with Molleur on these points. It IS good to be reassured that there are decent and honourable people out there. I have also followed the philosophy of working out ways of getting what I want to have. I don't want to waste money, but as you say, it costs what it costs.
You will get that boat done Keith, and really enjoy it. What sort of classic is it? I assume it's not a canal boat.
You will get that boat done Keith, and really enjoy it. What sort of classic is it? I assume it's not a canal boat.
