Need more info. for Ricardo transaxles?

[Brian]

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some questions about Ricardo transaxles. I have been doing research about transaxles by reading many forums with peoples opinions and have been thankful for the amount of experieces and tips covering many transaxles but I still feel that I do not know enough about the Ricardo some people mention. I looked at there website and had no luck finding any transaxles on Ricardos site for Gt40s or a similar configurations. Do they sell to the public? If not, who sells Ricardo transaxles? Where can I find info. about what amount of torque they can handle and what type of bell housings are avalible etc.? How much do they cost in US dollars? I have found the nessasary info. for Quaife ZF transaxles and Mendota SDR transaxles. I would really like to have the transaxle figured out to choose an engine. I would like to run a Ford 4.6 Modular engine with *550 ft lbs of torque. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Brian "TIN MAN" Limberg

 

[Lynn Erickson]

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some questions about Ricardo transaxles. I have been doing research about transaxles by reading many forums with peoples opinions and have been thankful for the amount of experieces and tips covering many transaxles but I still feel that I do not know enough about the Ricardo some people mention. I looked at there website and had no luck finding any transaxles on Ricardos site for Gt40s or a similar configurations. Do they sell to the public? If not, who sells Ricardo transaxles? Where can I find info. about what amount of torque they can handle and what type of bell housings are avalible etc.? How much do they cost in US dollars? I have found the nessasary info. for Quaife ZF transaxles and Mendota SDR transaxles. I would really like to have the transaxle figured out to choose an engine. I would like to run a Ford 4.6 Modular engine with *550 ft lbs of torque. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Brian "TIN MAN" Limberg

The Ricardo transaxle that fits a Ford modular motor is the one that came in the 05/06 ford gt super car. it was manufactured for ford and are available new form Ford racing. Ford Racing Performance Parts [M-7003-GT*]
rebuilt ones can be bought from Adrian Turner at DAB in the UK. Ford GT - DAB Solutions (2006) Ltd There is one on ebay eBay Motors: Ford GT transaxle,Transmission, Ricardo, GTM T56 C5 C6 (item 330317031805 end time Apr-23-09 10:20:49 PDT)
They do fit a modular or ford 351 block without an adapter and have been used on many other with an adapter. the transaxle can handle 500 ft. lbs. and has been known to handle up to 800 ft. lbs on the turbo GT's. They can be set up with a 3.36 or 3.9 ratio. they are cable shifter Six speeds and LSD With the mod motor you can use the Ford GT clutch and flywheel which will fit on the 8 bolt forged crankshaft. the AP clutch sold by Stillen is also a good option.

 

Hi
The Ricardo trans is very heavy by comparison 90+ kilos compared to 65Kgs for ZFQ and 70Kgs for ZF. The Ricardo is quite long in comparison to ZFQ or ZF transaxles, leading to installation and instability issues hanging additional weight and size behind the rear wheels.

Regards

Chris.

 

[Lynn Erickson]

Hi
The Ricardo trans is very heavy by comparison 90+ kilos compared to 65Kgs for ZFQ and 70Kgs for ZF. The Ricardo is quite long in comparison to ZFQ or ZF transaxles, leading to installation and instability issues hanging additional weight and size behind the rear wheels.

Regards

Chris.

They are a bit heavier but that did not seem to hurt the performance of the GT. they are cable shift so you save some weight over the linkage shifter or converter and you just can't break one. they shift much smoother and is a six speed. they are a little longer but shorter then a porsche 6 speed

 

They are a bit heavier but that did not seem to hurt the performance of the GT. they are cable shift so you save some weight over the linkage shifter or converter and you just can't break one. they shift much smoother and is a six speed. they are a little longer but shorter then a porsche 6 speed

Hi Lynn

25Kg = 55Lbs that more than a bit. Plus you don't need six speeds when you have this amount of torque. That's why a lot of the guys go for the Porsche 930 4 speed.
Its also interesting to note just how many Ford GT's have come to grief already.
look at this lot http://www.wreckedexotics.com/gt40/index.shtml
Both ZFQ and ZF can run cable change, the ZFQ has a very slick gear change.

Space is at a premium in a mid engine car build especially if you are also thinking of running AC.

regards

Chris.

 

[Jack]

For my RCR SL-C/LS engine, I fretted over the selection of a gearbox for 6 months!
Finally settled on the 930 LSD for several reasons:
1. suitability & gear ratio's (ideal for a V-8)
2. Cost and availability
3. Easily adapted for oil cooler and pump

Just my 2 cents...

 

Hi Guys

This is a good thread www.gt40s.com/forum/can-am-racers-917s-etc/28220-909-bergspyder.html it illustrates Porsches answer to keeping the weight between the wheels. Porsche were so conscious of the handling gains achieved by good weight distribution that they moved the differential and output shaft to the rear of the transaxle on the Bergspyder, placing as much weight as possible between the front and rear wheels.
Mclaren also followed their lead when they designed the F1.

Regards

Chris.

 

[Jac Mac]

Hi Guys

This is a good thread www.gt40s.com/forum/can-am-racers-917s-etc/28220-909-bergspyder.html it illustrates Porsches answer to keeping the weight between the wheels. Porsche were so conscious of the handling gains achieved by good weight distribution that they moved the differential and output shaft to the rear of the transaxle on the Bergspyder, placing as much weight as possible between the front and rear wheels.
Mclaren also followed their lead when they designed the F1.

Regards

Chris.

Damn, that means my J44 & your ZFQ are redundant already

 

Hi Jac
Fortunately the 910 transaxle would put the engine in the cockpit and the drivers feet in the radiator of a GT40 if you kept the wheels in their current location.
So no worries about redundancy, my point is getting the weight distribution right and not to build a car that handles like a pendulum

regards

Chris.

 

[Pete]

Hi Lynn

25Kg = 55Lbs that more than a bit. Plus you don't need six speeds when you have this amount of torque. That's why a lot of the guys go for the Porsche 930 4 speed.
Its also interesting to note just how many Ford GT's have come to grief already.
look at this lot Ford GT Crash Pictures
Both ZFQ and ZF can run cable change, the ZFQ has a very slick gear change.

Space is at a premium in a mid engine car build especially if you are also thinking of running AC.

regards

Chris.

I don't care what or how a car is set up you can still get the same results as shown in the link mentioned. It's called OE (operator error) Also I don't suppose your bias against the Ricardo is because of your connection with the ZFQ? I think they all have merit and the buyer should decide on the those merits for his build. Not trying to stir things up. just my 7cents.

Pete

 

[Jack Dunn]

Trading an extra 55 lbs. to get a virtually indestructible gearbox is a no brainer for a high HP street car, especially when you can purchase a Ricardo Ford GT transaxle for $6500.00.

I have a 630 lbs/ft. engine in my SPF Mk1, with an RBT(ZF) trans driving through 14" wide rear tires. I'm concerned enough about transaxle longevity to have purchased a Ford GT transaxle(as a spare) recently, and I wish I would have had the option to install a reasonably priced Ford GT trans when I ordered the car 2 years ago.

Jack

 

Hi Jack

The Ricardo wont fit your SPF it will stick out the back.

regards

Chris.

 

[Brian]

I would like to thank you all for the detailed discusion on the Ricardo transaxle. I do not have access to the internet at my shop during the day so I was unable to ask questions in the middle of the posts. I just got home and have some things to do but I would like to ask some of you further questions soon, I hope that is OK! Thanks again. Brian "TIN MAN" Limberg

 

[Jack Dunn]

Chris,
I went to measure my SPF GT40 and the Ricardo Ford GT transaxle before answering your last post. The Ricardo transaxle is slightly longer than the RBT(ZF), and the extra length will require some clearancing of the rear bodywork. But (as documented in several posts on this forum) it is certainly possible to fit the Ford GT gearbox within the confines of the GT40 body.
As a long time racer, I've learned to hate gearbox failures. So the chance to have a near bulletproof transaxle is well worth some extra weight and fettling of bodywork, IMHO.

Jack

 

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

Hi
The Ricardo trans is very heavy by comparison 90+ kilos compared to 65Kgs for ZFQ and 70Kgs for ZF. The Ricardo is quite long in comparison to ZFQ or ZF transaxles, leading to installation and instability issues hanging additional weight and size behind the rear wheels.

Regards

Chris.

Hi Chris -

I definately accept that the Ricardo is not light and that it requires some thought for installation but can you say with certainty that there are instability issues with all installations? - The one we have fitted into a Mk1 is off having a new exhaust system made at the moment so we have not had the chance to drive it but that will surely be the proof of the pudding so to speak. The fact that it is just about bomb-proof and has the sweetest of shifts (with B&M option) makes it very appealing for the larger engined vehicles.

Once back and running, we'll report how well it handles and long term results will also show as it will be competing in sprints/hillclimbs where many records are available for direct comparison.

 

Hi Paul

I find your project very interesting and understand your requirements for an out and out performance package, I would be interested to see photos showing the installation especially the front of the engine. I guess the alloy engine will reduce the all up weight of the car but will also add to instability issues because of weight distribution factors.

The new GT40R Superformance 427 with ZFQ transaxle.
YouTube - Ford GT40 Lapping at Palm Beach International Raceway - PBIR (Onboard)

When you talk about the additional weight behind the rear wheels you also have to realise that this weight is acting at a distance from the C of G of the car and needs to be multiplied by that distance to give the additional forces acting.
I don’t know of any original style Monocoque cars that have managed to fit the Ricardo? GT40s that have managed to fit it, all have replica chassis and can move the engine forward to accommodate it which is not possible with the SPF.

Regards


Chris.

 

[Jason Ferraro]

Paul, by the B&M option I gather you mean a short shifter. Where can I find info on it as I have the standard one and it might be a challenge to package well.

 

[Keith]

Sorry to chip in but I find this thread v interesting re: strength vs weight.

I was absolutely crap at Physics at school and whereas my sister graduated with honours in Physics from Oxford University, my approach to the subject over the years has been via "shade tree" style experiences through racing and building fast cars. Thus, one of the first practical lessons in physics on the race track was to avoid cars with a naturally "high polar moment of intertia" which resulted in a rather worrying tendency to spin at the slightest opportunity. In my simple way I interpreted this phenomena as belonging to vehicles that had a surfeit of weight in the ends.

So, I never built anything to race without first weighing every component, drilling thousands of lightening holes, moving front engines rearwards and placing all heavy objects (including driver) as central and low down as possible. It thus became second nature..

The Ricardo box is a marvelous piece of engineering from a very clever grown up company, but the sheer size seems to dwarf all components forward of it in a '40 and it would worry me in terms of the balance for the race track.

If it won't break it's too heavy etc?

 

[Kirby Schrader]

A friend of mine rode in my SPF MkII and said he had to have one... (Hey! That makes two friends that did the same now, Jack!)He found a MkII that was available (titanium, like mine) and is now having a 427 Keith Craft twin turbo engine installed (he says he has got to have 1000HP) and a Ricardo to handle the power.I told him I didn't recommend it but of course, he proceeded anyway.The engine and transaxle assembly had to be moved up about 1.25" and forward slightly. So the engine, in my opinion, is uncomfortably in the cabin and his CoG is definitely higher....They had to make custom half shafts, custom brackets, modify the chassis, he's installing a paddle shifter, iPod docking station, etc. etc.The drive train is now in the car and they had to cut very little out of the rear clip. I was surprised....So yes, it is certainly possible (with lots of cash). But I am sure the handling will be affected as well as the cabin comfort.FWIW,Kirby

Hi
The Ricardo trans is very heavy by comparison 90+ kilos compared to 65Kgs for ZFQ and 70Kgs for ZF. The Ricardo is quite long in comparison to ZFQ or ZF transaxles, leading to installation and instability issues hanging additional weight and size behind the rear wheels.

Regards

Chris.

 

Hi Kirby

sounds like your friend is building a drift machine? is he Japanese?

I guess he could have just gone the hole hog and put in a Turbo jet from an F16.

I think you will see him get his door blown off the first time he gets it on the track by cars with half the horspower that are set up correctly.

Hi Keith
I like that saying
If it won't break it's too heavy etc

Regards

Chris.