No SL C Components

[Jim Holden]

RCR is not alone in the industry in not being willing to sell "parts." Some years ago I was at an auto show in Englishtown NJ and saw a replica Cobra that the (apparent) owner indicated was an "early" ERA. Having built several of them, I new that I was not looking at an ERA, early or otherwise. ERA sells their kit with everything that makes the car an ERA. They do not want to have bastard cars out there that the owners are claiming are (and trying to sell as) ERAs, but in fact may have only a left front wing nut from ERA.

Certainly, there are companies that will sell just a body or a frame, etc., but as a general rule, not those companies that are concerned about their cars holding their value once they're sold. ...and RCR appears to have just such a concern.

If RCR wants to maintain its reputation for building quality cars and protecting their purchasers investment, they would be advised to stay the course and not sell "parts."

Jim

 

[Mike]

Come on. Have you guys heard of the SEMA show? Of course you have. It is a HUGE industry. That is, the industry of allowing people to customize their rides. It doesn't matter what a manufacturer builds, there are going to be consumers that want to "make it their own" and ALOT of them. I mean Ford can't tell some guy that he can't put 25" rims on a Focus. The market in kit cars is even more geared to people, or at least it historically has been, that want to "do it yourself". To get to the point of a Porsche, Audi, BMW, etc there is a lot more involved than just having a nice piece of equipment, and IMO, those that want the SLC and Fran to jump into this market head first are deluded.

 

[qwerty]

This bastard car argument is straw man. When's the last time your saw a stock Supra? People butcher F-cars all the time too, and that doesn't hurt the brand one bit.

We are not arguing about selling parts. The argument is about redundant parts. This is not a CGT or an F430 that gets tuned later with an exhaust this, or carbon panel that. This is a car that can be built tuned because it comes from RCR, and not from Porsche or Ferrari, where every part is designed by the manufacturer. Catch my drift?

 

[Jim Holden]

I beg to differ. I have been participating in this hobby for almost thirty years and have over that period of time bought and sold a number of ERAs. (And I will gladly admit that my experience is largely limited to that company's products.)

Certainly, once someone buys a car they're welcome to do anything they want to. But when that day comes when the want to sell the car (and that day does come) any major deviation from the original "plan" of a component car such as an ERA will almost certainly be subtracted from the resale value. Time and again I've seen cars that the owner/builder deviated from the plan being offered for sale and they never got their money back.

In the end, you pay your money and you make your choices. Resale value need not be one of them.

Jim

 

[Mike]

BTW Craig- Your intended definition of "inverted snobbery" was not lost on me. I just don't tend to take any offense from individuals comments that I don't even know, and I try to look at things from many different angles. Many times coming up with a humorous twist that will make, at least me anyway, laugh. Thanks.

 

[Craig Gillingham]

Craig7L, so you've made up your mind on RCR since you couldn't find a factory-built GTR? Dig your Westfield. I'd love to have one of those over here in the states.

no i havent made my mind up yet..thats why i am visiting detroit. Who said i couldnt find a factory built GTR? where did that come from? i would just phone up the factory and in 8-12weeks get a fully SVAd car delivered? if thats the way or not i go.
(ps its a radical not westfield) hehehehe

 

[Mike]

Time and again I've seen cars that the owner/builder deviated from the plan being offered for sale and they never got their money back.

In the end, you pay your money and you make your choices. Resale value need not be one of them.

Jim

WOW, there seems to be all kinds of comedians on here.:laugh: Come on. Have you truthfully known ANY kit car builder that "got their money back" when they sold the vehicle? These vehicles (kit cars) are about how one can put in time and know how in order to produce a working piece that will most certainly, no matter how closely a "plan" is followed, have personal touches to it. Once time and materials are added in, it, in many cases, would probably be more efficient, monetarily, to go buy an original! Anybody who buys/builds one of these kits and thinks he's gonna get his money out of it............well, let's just say I have a racetrack I want to sell them.:laugh:

 

[Jim Holden]

Crash:

I think you need to reread my post. Just so I am clear, I have built each one of my (now 5) ERAs. In each instance I got the money that I paid out, back and more. I did not say that I got the value of my time back... that I wrote off as therapy, but in each instance I did get my money back.

So, how many cars have you built yourself and how have you done?

Jim

 

[qwerty]

ho said i couldnt find a factory built GTR? where did that come from?

Didn't seem you liked the answers your got when you went asking elsewhere. Cheers mate, sorry for putting you in the lowly Westfield. Let us all know how you make out in Detroit.

 

[qwerty]

This thread is all over the place - kind of like the SL-C today. Hope the latter works it's way out of the vapor.

Back to lurking.

 

[Craig Gillingham]

crash... your very agrumentaive for such an intelligent fellow..and your humour i must say is on a different level.

i did say chill baby, no?

now your popping at a rep power5

think i rename you scrappy doo.

 

[Ian K]

This bastard car argument is straw man. When's the last time your saw a stock Supra? People butcher F-cars all the time too, and that doesn't hurt the brand one bit.

When was the last time Toyota sold a bare bones Supra sans suspension and uprights,
without a dash, and the rest unassembled so you can put it together yourself?

RCR engineers the SL-C to be the whole package they present. Period. Some kit car companies
do the same, others don't. Can you just buy a Noble body and chassis? Factory Five will sell
a GTM body and chassis by itself? ERA will sell some parts, but you cannot buy the chassis
and body by itself unless you already own one of their vehicles and have damaged it. I am
not even sure CAV will sell you anything less than a complete kit (yes, you supposedly can
buy an unassembled CAV).

This has been one of the major issues in the Kit Car industry. Whether to buy a bare bones
product and source major components yourself, sometimes having to do the fab work to
get things to fit, or providing a completely engineered product with all major componentry
supplied, guaranteed to work together and assemble without the need for major fab work.
And, lately, the industry seems to be moving more and more to the latter, especially as
more complex designs are produced. Fran chose to go this way, as have many others before
him, and I am sure many others will follow.

BTW, I see stock Supras everyday.

Ian

 

[Mike]

Jim-As posted in another thread, or maybe even this one, I can't remember, I have built 5 cars from the ground up with nothing but a pile of body work and 20' lengths of tube to start with. I provided a link to a pic of me at the Utah ALMS race in 2006 when I was with my former employer helping out on the LMP1 Lola they raced. They are now running a Judd powered Creation. I have over twenty years in the racing industry and have a degree in mechanical engineering. I've worked as a fabricator and designer for a Trans Am team, as well as on the national and regional level of SCCA race teams. I have built three other club cars for SCCA, and worked on three different regional NASCAR teams. The last car I built and setup set a new track record that hadn't been broken in 8 years. I have built and setup cars that have won three SCCA National Championships. I myself have won two SCCA Regional Championships. I started racing go carts at age 12 and did all the work myself. I know a thing or two about high performance vehicles, and how and what it takes to build them.......but thanks for asking.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

:bow::bow::bow:.......:thumbsup:

 

[Jac Mac]

Just as well George.W. never signed up to the Kyoto aggreement, you guys are generating enough greenhouse gas to make a whole herd of Texas Longhorns look smog compatibull

 

[Jim Holden]

Crash:

I wish I had the time and ability to do what you have done. It almost sounds as though you have become a "manufacturer."

Having neither the time, nor the ability to engineer a project from scratch such as you have done, I rely on the engineer at ERA (having now produced somewhere above 900 cars) to have done his homework. That's why I stick to their "plan." If I were in the market for a used "kit" or component car, I, frankly, would not consider one that had been either scratch built or cobbled up from pieces lying around the garage. That's just me.

The great thing about this hobby is that there is infinite room for all; from those who wish to scratch build their cars to those who just want to turn the key and go... and for those everywhere in between.

Jim

 

[qwerty]

When was the last time Toyota sold a bare bones Supra sans suspension and uprights,
without a dash, and the rest unassembled so you can put it together yourself?

I guess I can't stay out of it.

Again, straw man. RCR has not designed every piece of this car from its own parts bin. That's the point. This is not a Toyota, Ferrari, P-car, etc. It's a component car, so some of us would like to buy a la carte. That's not going to happen, but don't make silly arguments like the SL-C will be harmed by being modified from it's desired delivery. Every one of them that ever sees the road or track will be different.

Just as well George.W. never signed up to the Kyoto aggreement, you guys are generating enough greenhouse gas to make a whole herd of Texas Longhorns look smog compatibull

Nice, adds nothing. This is why I usually despise internet forums. Attack a point, not the thread. Your wonderful observation, with your political dig is just sophomoric self-stroking. Poop, or get off the pot.

 

[Mike]

The great thing about this hobby ......
Jim

Unfortunately, you are correct. Since I left the racing field and got married and now have a desk job (can you tell by all the posts?) I have been largely reduced to a hobbyist.:sad:

Not having a race track anywhere near me isn't good either.:thumbsdown:

Since I'm more of a racer and new to THIS hobby, can anyone suggest any cars that might offer just the body and tub that look anything close to an SLC, GTP, Group C, Grand Am DP?

 

[Vega]

Wow, what a worthless thread. No one post after this and let it die..

 

[Ian K]

I guess I can't stay out of it.

I was wondering how long it would last

Again, straw man. RCR has not designed every piece of this car from its own parts bin. That's the point. This is not a Toyota, Ferrari, P-car, etc. It's a component car, so some of us would like to buy a la carte. That's not going to happen, but don't make silly arguments like the SL-C will be harmed by being modified from it's desired delivery. Every one of them that ever sees the road or track will be different.

Not a straw man from two angles. 1) Toyota, Ferrari and Porsche (there, I've said it) do
not necessarily design every piece of their cars either. There are plenty that are sourced
elsewhere. Which leads to 2) all of them, Toyota, Porsche, Ferrari, RCR, ERA, etc. design
their cars around the components they design in house, or source elsewhere. The difference
is in the quantity designed in house. And you might be surprised how much the "real"
manufacturers source externally.

And as far as the SL-C not being harmed by being modified from its desired desired delivery,
all of them may or may not be harmed by being modified after taking delivery. Ferraris with
Chevy engines ring a bell? I'm not making that argument though - you buy it, you do with it
as you wish, for better or worse.

What is you definition of a component car? Because, in one sense, all cars are component
cars these days, and in another, RCRs are just as much a component car as a Porsche
(OK, I've said it again) or a Ferrari. I am going to assume you are associating component
car with self-assembled. In which case, yes, you are right, but that has nothing to do with
how it is packaged up.

It's like buying a plastic model kit (this is for you Paolo). Some companies only sell the
complete package in a box. Others sell just the pieces you can use to modify a boxed kit,
or use as a basis for a scratch build. Still others do both. And others only sell fully built
or partially built ones. The only difference between model kits and the car industry is
1) how much you are spending and 2) what the final product is.

Sorry Vega, you posted whiel I was typing

Ian