No SL C Components

[Mike]

Crash, I think you have answered your own question, you want your own car along the style & lines of the SLC, Simple go build it, body-everything, just remember that RCR have set a benchmark by which you will be judged-like it or not-tall order, but if you have the talents you claim it shouldnt be beyond your capabilities-heck, you might even be able to improve on it slightly You have to remember the SLC is Frans baby, I doubt that if you had rocked up to the front door of Ford in 1964 and said ''' Hey I like the style of that GT40 thing your building, can I have a body to drop over all my bits & pieces because I am not that fussed on what you have done ''' that you would have got much of a hearing.

Actually, that's pretty much EXACTLY what happened. Ford wanted to win Le Mans so they offered to do a merger with Ferrari. Ferrari backed out and then Ford bought a Lola design and then proceeded to largely redue the mechanics. It was the first computer designed 3D suspension and it was all designed by one guy. An unheard of new guy fresh out of college hired by Ford that almost went to work for GM. Everybody in Ford design hated him because they thought his technology would take their jobs away. In reality, the success from the work he did probably gauranteed they would have a job. Everybody and their mother, after the GT 40 success, then wanted Ford to do the design work for their smaller manufacturing companies. It was such a good program that it is still the foundation for most suspension design software.

In any case, enough of the history lesson, pretty sure I'm not gonna win this battle here on this thread. Just thought I would let other perspective builders know that the kit is only available in complete form, so it's an all or nothing deal. Too bad for me and my like, but, as noted, we are even a smaller niche than the general kit car guys. I will accept that and keep driving the Lexus until I can find a suitable body that will be a platform for a one-off-super-street-car. I have no interest in fiberglass mould work. Maybe an RCR GT 40. I would never buy a used, partially built kit. Too many things someone can screw up.

Oh, and a build is supposed to take about six weeks. Still no answer about what must be provided to Fran for the build or how complete it is when he ships it.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Crash,
I have not risen to reply to your questioning ....reason being that from your stream of consciousness postings ,whatever I say you will probably disagree with as you have your own mindset and I have mine ....and as others have hinted at this is my baby...so there you have it.
The SL-C is not sold in individual component form and has never been advertised as such...the list is on the website.
SUPERLITECARS - 586-329-1573
I look forward to seeing your personal project come to fruition as you obviously feel you have something to bring to the table and we may all learn something from you for free....:thumbsup:.....

 

[Ian K]

Crash,
I have not risen to reply to your questioning ....reason being that from your stream of consciousness postings ,whatever I say you will probably disagree with as you have your own mindset and I have mine ....and as others have hinted at this is my baby...so there you have it.
The SL-C is not sold in individual component form and has never been advertised as such...the list is on the website.
SUPERLITECARS - 586-329-1573
I look forward to seeing your personal project come to fruition as you obviously feel you have something to bring to the table and we may all learn something from you for free....:thumbsup:.....

Fran,

Not to belabor the point, but the list does not mention the suspension/uprights, nor
does it mention what stage of build the car is delivered. It also says a bare bones
package is available. Maybe an update of the page is needed?

RCR SL-C spec sheet

Oops - nevermind. I see I found the old page ... carry on

Ian

 

[Mike]

Hey, I'm not a genius, and never claimed to know anything more than you or any others know. It appears you got the wrong impression. All I was saying is that your vehicle, as you produce it, is designed to be universal and largely complete. A great thing, in my opinion, for the majority of interested consumers. I'm not gonna do anything that hasn't been proven and done on previous race vehicles. I just, from my experience, see some areas that were compromised on, performance wise, for the sake of production ease and adaptability. I completely understand and accept the logic as to why this path was taken. It's what I would do if I produced any more than one or two vehicles of the same design. The SLC IS your baby. I accept that too. Now I'll just have to see if the year end bonus is big enough to justify the full price, or I will continue down the path I was on before the discovery of the SLC. That is a GT 40 or a converted Grand Am car.

You've obviously taken offense to my postings, which looking back I can also see your point of view on and don't blame you. My initial post was a mixture of disappointment that the car that I had been looking for for YEARS, even DECADES, and had "fallen in love with at first sight" (your SLC)was not available in the form I need, and a real yurning for more information as to what exactly you do when you build these cars and how complete they are when they leave your facility. There's nothing I'm going to disagree with you on there. Just want more info, that's all.

I also REALLY want to know how to get one of those things registered in CA. I think the only way I would consider dropping that kind of coin on a vehicle I probably wouldn't even drive that much would be if it was gauranteed to be registerable. If you have any insights, please let me know here or over on the "CA Registration" area.

Thanks.

 

[Mike]

Fran,

Not to belabor the point, but the list does not mention the suspension/uprights, nor
does it mention what stage of build the car is delivered. It also says a bare bones
package is available. Maybe an update of the page is needed?

RCR SL-C spec sheet

Oops - nevermind. I see I found the old page ... carry on

Ian

Thanks Ian. I thought I had seen something to make me believe that it was available in other than complete form somewhere. Guess that's why I was SO disappointed, but it is his baby. Guess I waited too long to contact Fran and he changed directions. I guess I also better get one while the total cost is somewhere south of $100k! (Probably what the vehicle is worth)

 

[Tom]

Crash,

You seem to be tapped into the racing market in general, I'm curious if there are any Daytona prototype chassis around that might make for a starting point. Yes, I'm aware they cost way too much money new, but maybe some of the manufacturers that didn't sell enough cars first time around to stay in business might sell you a chassis - thinking Chase, Piccio, or even one of the old Fabcars.

I may be completely off base on this one.

Tom

 

[Mike]

Tom, thanks for the suggestion. That's exactly what I was referring to when I said "a converted Grand Am car." Grand Am is the sanctioning body/series and Daytona Prototype (DP) is the class designation that looks most like an SLC or IMSA GTP car. I am in contact with two teams now, but one car is badly wrecked and the other is probably way too expensive. They haven't even talked price to me and are avoiding the question. In any case, then getting details right, such as headlight heights and windshield material, etc will be a MAJOR hassle. It probably would be the right thing for me to just save up for the complete SLC. Who knows, maybe I won't be motivated to change anything when the thing is sitting there "complete" in my shop, but I really don't know what "complete" means at this point, and I want to make sure it is registerable in CA. I have only seen ONE former GTP car licensed for the street and that was done through a university as an alternative fuel vehicle. It was 100% electric and the car was donated to the school by Nissan. Then the students hacked it up to convert it.:cry:

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Crash,
you have not offended me at all.....quite the contrary...you are giving the SL-C some good airtime.
A new DP car will run in excess of 400k minus drivetrain..I have seen used up rollers available for the mid 150's....and will have no less issues for registration..infact I would expect significantly more...

 

[Mike]

Just for the record, here's a link that Ian posted in another thread that pretty much answers all the registration questions.

CobraTrader -- Cobra / Kit Car Registration'

As I thought, it still may be a battle with the SLC in CA as the bodystyle year will not be helpful to the situation. In this case, all the smog equipment for whatever engine is being used will have to be on the vehicle. The LS3 is probably pretty straight forward. I would think the difficult ones would be the late 70s through early 90s setups. Unfortunately an OEM OBDII computer will probably have to be used. That will add to the expense a bit.

Fran how about the completeness of the kits when they leave your facility? Has everything been test fitted, or is there a significant amount to do by the customer?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

All SL-C kits leave as rollers....suspension hung, brake calipers hung, brake lines in situ, body pinned and aligned, all lexan cut to size with polished edges....tyres need to be drop shipped ..we mount them and Bob's your Uncle a roller(for shipping purposes only mind you..nothing torqued)

FFR GTM, Ultima, Noble are all Ca. registerable...and not a replica amongst them so whats is the issue??

 

[Mesa]

I did asked a lot of questions regarding how to register in Californicate before buying a SLC. Most helpful were the GTM guys as they are having no problems registering LS7 equipped GTMs.

 

[MReid]

Crash,

Don't give up, yet. I've built 6 kit cars from six different manufacturers, the latest being my RCR40. I've never used all the parts, often swapping or selling outright to others. Much of this before the Internet made it so easy. I found this to be part of the fun. As an example, I sold the crappy Ford Granada 9" brakes and uprights that came with my Ferrari California reproduction to a guy looking to convert his Mustang to disks. I sold the entire Mustang II front suspension from my Outlaw Performance 1941 Willys reproduction to a guy building a streetrod in order to upgrade it to C4 Corvette. I even gave some stuff away that someone needed and I couldn't bring myself to charge them for (usually means it sat on my shelf for a few years).

Funny thing, I couldn't find anything to sell from my RCR40. All the components were up to snuff and surpassed my needs. Perhaps this won't be the case for you as you have access to parts I can only drool over. But somebody will buy anything. One mans trash, another man's treasure. Corny saying, but absolutely true. What it sounds like is the price of admission is too high. There are many things that I want, but can't afford. Where I have the skills, I fabricate them otherwise I either layout a plan and eventually get it or am forced to pass. Necessity being the mother of invention.

Sounds like for you it is a matter of how bad do you really want it?

 

[Steve26]

Crash,
Having built my car from scratch and doing what you say you want to do I can assure you if your time is worth anything at all you would be money ahead to buy Fran's SLC. I did it as a hobby because I enjoy building and when my GT is done this Summer I will finish my plane but I didn't do it to save time or money. I can also say without hesitation that the way you have approached this I wouldn't sell the kit to you if I were Fran. There are times when it makes more sense not to sell a product when you know the "relationship" afterwords is going to be bad. I think you should just find or make your own body and build everything else, I have done it and it's not impossible. The only way your likely to be happy is to build it exactly the way you want it. Just my .02 worth.

Steve

 

[Mike]

Yes, MReid, and now that I'm married I have to "justify" another car purchase by having it be street legal. I have 5 race cars in my shop right now that, while they don't have much commercial value, I built them and they are sentimental to me. I have 20 vehicles at my shop and house all together, and am working at paring them down to a workable number before starting another project. I enjoy rock crawling and have a Toyota, Jeep, and Chevy 4X4s. I just bought a 2005 Dodge dually and could stand to get rid of the Toyota, and the Chevy, but the market for 12 MPG vehicles is pretty full right now. The box van can go since the local oval track has closed, and one or two of the 5 trailers could probably also be sold. I gotta get my "house" in order and the wife has some serious upgrades on her home improvements list..............On the other hand, like I said, the SLC is a relative good buy, and I have been looking for it for quite some time. By the end of the year I should have everything in place to be able to know if I can do a full SLC. It will be a rough six months.

Fran- Didn't mean to imply that there is something specific to the SLC that makes it tougher to register in CA than the others. Just saying that the lack of a replica body will mean a possible "negotiation" session with the referree as to what year it should be tested under. No different than any of the other non replica cars.

 

[Bill D]

Crash
Under SB100, if the body doesn't replicate anything specific, the smog requirements revert to 1965 or thereabouts.

 

[Ian K]

Again, as I have mentioned elsewhere, SB100 makes it fairly easy to register
any of them - FFR GTM, Noble, Ultima and RCR SL-C. The only problem is
being one of the first 500 getting paperwork in every Jan 2nd or 3rd.

Ian

 

[Mike]

Bill, only if the block is undeterminable as far as manufacture date. An LS3 crate engine will no doubt have casting numbers that will show recent manufacture. Above and beyond that it appears that if it wasn't an engine previously in a vehicle MANUFACTURED for CA use, it would have to be up to current smog standards if the date of production could be proven to be later than 1960. I believe the date it reverts to is actually 1960 in CA. This is where the "negotiation" comes in.

BTW-Beautiful build. Your build site is how I found this site and the SLC. Thanks!

 

[Mike]

Steve- Yes I would LOVE to build my own, but nothing even comes close to the SLC for looks and it already being up to code as far as registration is concerned. Again, I'm not faulting Fran for his business decision as far as car setup, I'm just expressing my disappointment that a more basic kit isn't available, as I thought it was. I also wanted to get more info on the car and what a build takes as I just haven't seen much info after searching. I had/have some questions and I felt others would probably like to know the answers also.

Like I said before, I'm sorry if Fran, or anyone else on here, took it personal. It was not intended that way.

 

[Mike]

Just as an aside- I have seen turnkey DP cars go for between $120k and $200k but a friend of mine bought a Toyota Indy car a few years ago, complete with engine minus ECU, data computer, with a spare set of body work, 4 extra rims, and a set of mounted rains for $40k.

THAT was pretty much the deal of the century........on what is now a glorified paper weight in his businesses lobby!

 

[J. Miller]

Our (less than important) input on this matter:

Speaking as a family considering 2 twin SL-C (primarily for use on the Bluegrass Motorsports Club Track) we are quite in favor of the way Mr. Hall has refused to bring the car to market in a "kit" form. In point of fact we actually strongly encouraged him to go the opposite direction with the project when we began speaking to RCR. We requested that the company make the product less "kit car-ish" and more into the vein of the small volume manufacturer like Ariel, Noble, Artega, Farbio, Etc. with more standardization and a higher spirit of elitism. We pushed so hard on the matter it seems we somewhat overstepped our bounds and have upset Mr. Hall to a given degree. Our feelings remain the same on the car no matter the situation however, in so much as we feel it (SL-C) looks like a million dollars, hope that it will act as such (which we have little doubt that it will), and feel that the cars deserve to sit on that higher plane of automotive existence with Porsche, Ferrari, Aston, Ect., where cars are not dismissed as anything less than amazing because they travel down a fixed assembly line or are labeled "hand built" instead of carrying the words "kit/component" in their stigma. If we had our personal wish, the whole thing would be highly restricted with only a few (take your breath away) engine and gearbox packages to pick from. This done to ensure that no one could install anything but a factory approved power-train. The same guidelines would be applied to the exterior/interior options. The cars look/perform (we hope) like a $100K+ vehicle, so what is wrong with creating them at that price? Such a beautiful car deserves to run with a higher status crowd. Why compare it to a Factory Five when we could compare it to a Mossler or Saleen instead? All it takes is the right attitude straight out of the gate.