possibly the sickest engine/tran package for an SLC ??

Les, what I was referring to with the " in the end you have to be able to sell them" was that the original SLC concept that envisioned using a transverse front engine type engine /gearbox package mounted in the mid engine location. As far as I know Fran built one as a proof of concept but never really pursued the design. He and I had discussed it using a Audi A4 power train back then as well as a Acura system as well. That had to be more than 15 years ago I would think.

He changed focus and the current SLC is the result. I think you will agree that everyone benefited from that with what, a couple of hundred sold? If Fran has done one thing he has produced products that customers want to buy and at a price point that makes that possible. Good ol American capitalism is alive and well in Detroit.

A high output 4 banger and max attention to weight saving would be a very interesting track car design if it saved 200-300 or more pounds from a V8 (same power) version. But in the end of the mental exercise I had on the subject I concluded that a big torque V8 would be easier to drive on a track for most of us fat old men. I know I was right as far as my car went on this one. By the way I have a 450HP 5 speed SLC on ZO6 size Hoosiers that I believe will forever be faster that I can drive it for what it's worth.
Ah! "(I)n the end you have to be able to sell them" means FRAN needs to sell SLC's. Got it! Yes, he must sell them, and I am so glad he did, and that he has!

As it is, the SLC saves a lot of weight over a Corvette or a Camaro. I'll just keep in mind your idea of "(a) high output 4 banger and max attention to weight saving . . . " Thanks so much! :)
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
I want to be sure I am clear. IMHO the small 4 banger idea could be effective if the total power package (turbo, intercoolers, plumbing electronics etc. could be built at a weight approximately 200 -300 pounds LIGHTER than the same output V8. That just might get you down to 2000 pounds for the car. After all if it's not all in significantly lighter then why bother. My track version SLC with the SBC in it is pretty close to 2600 pounds more or less. 2400 would be better but not $25 - 30K better. This does allow for some tuning expense but that would be a one time first time right tuner.

I did a study on a RCR 917 with a NA 6 cylinder Porsche @ 430-450 HP. The cost would make you eyes water. AND you ended up with a full on racing engine. Race gas, constant and frequent engine refreshing and at least 5 times the cost of a 450HP SBC . Annualized total track costs for the year nearly doubled and that's if you kept it down to 5-6 weekends a year AND didn't amortize the original engine cost difference AND it didn't BREAK!. Why NA you ask? Because the turbo Porsche came in a bit less money but only about 100 pounds less that the aluminum everything except block SBC.

My advice (free) is to put a 530 HP LS3 GM crate motor in it and spend the savings on a second set of wheels and Hoosiers.

In the end it's your car and dollars so do what makes you happy. I think it would be good and a lot more fun, if you did so with eyes wide open. Don't forget to factor in resale. The little 4 banger will never be worth what a V8 car would be all, else being similar.
 
A flat 6 N/A Porsche would be awesome and would seem to fit the character of the car well. I‘ve never personally liked the sound of a SBC V8 paired with a light weight mid engine car. I feel like it needs something that’s higher revving, which is partly what interested me about the SB4.

I currently have a 991.2 GT3RS with Dundon headers and loud muffler and the engine sound is just amazing. No race gas required and very reliable. However, IIRC that engine alone is around $70k....gulp.
 

Neil

Supporter
Sam;

"I feel like it needs something that’s higher revving, ..."

A small-block V8 Chevy will turn 8,000+ RPM if you build it to do that.
 
I'm kinda partial to the motors out of Italy. This twin turbo V8 from the current Ferrari 488 is going to be incredible in the 40...
Lovely choice but at what cost? To get that engine you would pay more than the kit. But it would be wonderful.
 
ive been dreaming up some pretty sick engine possibilities for my future SLC. im thinking of an RB26DET turbo engine from a Nissan skyline, or maybe even a 2JZGTE from the Toyota supra mated with a Graziano because i know it will be able to handle the power for what i would like. i could picture one of these JDM beauties mounted in the back of an SLC. if you guys have any input on this, or think of any better swaps..let me know how you feel about it.:idea:
Mercury Racing LS7 with DOHC 4-Valve, 8000 RPM and 750hp.
A0E250A7-CFCA-4D7B-AD9C-DEB7AF7E30A0.jpeg
 
I have looked at the SLC for some time and i have some thoughts. I am thinking race al the time. Power, weight, space and unfortunately bang for buck. I need up to 1000hp, so it must be turbo. The problem is to get enough power without to much weight and run out of space. Many things to bring in to consideration.


BMW S63 is my favorite now because of the Hot V. BlackWing is the same but it is to new and expensive. Mercedes also have this concept and they also are expensive, but the advantage is that they have dry sump OEM.
P63 photos under, race version of the S63.

BMW S85, love it. Favorite NA engine, but not enough power for me.

Old Audi i think will run out of space with turbo. This is no good NA engine, only makes 300+HP
I dont know this is compared to SL and Ford.
 
Fredrik:
for 2500lbs or so, why would you need 1000hp? and how on earth will you put the power down without spinning out of control, I think I will have a hard enough time with the ls 376/525 crate engine AND traction control. Don't shoot me, I know more HP is cool , I had a 750hp Nissan GTR and that thing was fun as hell, but it tipped the scales at over 4000 lbs, four wheel drive, and lots of computer nannies, launch control was awesome.
Having said all that some SLC builders have gone all out on big HP engines. Good luck.
 
Mercury Racing LS7 with DOHC 4-Valve, 8000 RPM and 750hp.
View attachment 108163
I wonder about the size of Mercury Racing LS7. It is about 3 inches longer and a big wider too. How much modification to the chassis would be required?

The cost at over 30k is substantially higher than some of the other GM crate engine options. On the plus side it comes with its own ecu and that will balance the cost out a bit.

Even a good crate motor can run 15-20k. As for big power, to my mind 500hp is plenty sufficient. But I do like the idea of having something different for a motor.
 
Fredrik:
for 2500lbs or so, why would you need 1000hp? and how on earth will you put the power down without spinning out of control, I think I will have a hard enough time with the ls 376/525 crate engine AND traction control. Don't shoot me, I know more HP is cool , I had a 750hp Nissan GTR and that thing was fun as hell, but it tipped the scales at over 4000 lbs, four wheel drive, and lots of computer nannies, launch control was awesome.
Having said all that some SLC builders have gone all out on big HP engines. Good luck.
My earlier car, a BMW E36 M3 with turbo, 750hp for driving and kicking tiers lose in 1 and 2 gear but not 3 gear straight forward with 255 regular street tiers in the back.
So, with 305/310 slicks and overboost button on steering wheel this is no problem ✌Anti spinn can also be set up in the ecu or/and a power switch with stages.
 

Attachments

The V-12 from the Gordon Murray Automotive T.50

GMA T.50 engine-3.jpg


"The T.50’s V12 engine is completely bespoke, and has been specified by Murray to a very specific set of goals in construction, capability and design. The 3994cc V12 is built with a 65-degree cylinder-bank angle, with an 81.5mm bore and 63.8mm stroke. It runs at a 14:1 compression ratio, and at its core has been designed for ultimate response as much as for its power figure.

"Peak engine speed is limited to 12,100rpm, but more astonishing is its rev rate per second, gaining a stunning 28.500rpm-per-second, making the engine capable of hitting the red line from idle in just 0.3sec. This is nearly three times faster than the S70/2 V12 in the McLaren F1. To achieve this, the internal moving parts have been shorn of as much weight as possible – the steel crank is just 13kg, the connecting rods and valves are of titanium, all to reduce rotational mass, helping the engine achieve not only those dizzying engine speeds, but the rate of response Murray wanted to achieve.

"This also has a lead-on effect of reducing the V12’s overall weight which is 178kg – a record-low weight figure for a naturally aspirated V12 road car engine, and makes it 28kg less than the V12 Cosworth has built for the Aston Martin Valkyrie. The crank is also a record 80mm from the engine base, lowering all the engine’s internals for the sake of weight distribution. Internal engine lubrication is of a dry sump system, naturally.

"The power and torque figures are almost secondary to these numbers, with a peak power of 654bhp at 11,500rpm, and a 345lb ft torque peak at 9000rpm. This gives the V12 a power density of 166bhp/litre, which is also an improvement on the Valkyrie’s 154bhp/litre figure.

"Almost obsessive measures have been taken in all factors too – there are no belts on the V12, only chains, while a 48V mild-hybrid system and integrated starter motor and generator streamlines the electrical side of things. Murray’s also designed all the V12’s ancillaries to be situated out of sight, making only the headers, exhaust manifolds and intake plenum and trumpets visible from its glazed engine cover. The starter motor and generator also supplement the engine with an extra 49bhp when in VMax powertrain mode.

"The intake is fed via a roof-mounted ram-air scoop that borrows Direct Path Induction Sound tech first seen on the McLaren F1. The system essentially amplifies the intake sound from the roof scoop into the cabin, but runs on the basis of throttle position rather than engine speed, keeping the relative noise down when the driver lifts, but also giving a more varied sound under big throttle applications at low (relative to modern engine) revs.

"The six-speed manual gearbox is another bespoke commission, this time designed and built by XTrac, weighing 80.5kg, which is another road car record. The shift feel has been painstakingly perfected by Murray himself with a short-throw movement on the compact gearlever sprouting from the left of the central driver’s seat."
 
Top