possibly the sickest engine/tran package for an SLC ??

While the black wing is cool, it is easy to make that kind of power with a small block v8. And much simpler and cheaper too. But it could be cool if it could be boosted up to 700 hp
 
Here is more information on the 418-horsepower,, 2-liter 4-cylinder from Mercedes Benz. Text is here, link is at the bottom.

"Road & Track
How Mercedes-AMG Made the Most Powerful Production Four-Cylinder Ever
"The 2.0-liter M 139 engine cranks out 416 horses and 369 lb-ft, thanks to some old-fashioned hot-rodding tricks.
"By Bob Sorokanich
"Jun 7, 2019

"Four hundred and sixteen horsepower from a 2.0-liter four-cylinder. That's 208 hp per liter—a whopping 104 horses per cylinder. That's what AMG has squeezed out of the M 139 engine, the little turbo four that will power the next-generation Mercedes-AMG A45, along with the CLA45 and GLA45.

"So how did AMG manage to make the most powerful production-car four-cylinder ever? In a press release, the automaker details all the changes that went into this next-generation engine, and for the most part, it's all old-school hot-rodding tricks.

"The new M 139 is a development of a previous engine, the 376-hp M 133 that previously held the title of most powerful production four-cylinder. The new version is available in two flavors: a 382-hp, 354-lb-ft base version, and the 416-hp, 369-lb-ft "S" trim.

"In order to make this power, AMG switched the intake and exhaust routing. The new transversely-mounted engine has its intake facing front, with the exhaust manifold and turbo nestled against the firewall. This allows for a straighter, less restrictive intake path, and shortens both the intake and exhaust runners.

"AMG also crammed bigger exhaust valves into the cylinder heads, repositioning and angling the fuel injectors to make room for larger exhaust ports. This is also the first AMG four-cylinder with both port and direct fuel injection.

"Dozens of smaller improvements contribute to the increased output. Roller-bearing turbos, a closed-deck engine block and aluminum crankcase, Nanoslide-coated cylinder bores, and an improved cooling system with an electric water pump all round out the package. And with the M 139, AMG has gone back to its "one man, one engine" assembly method, where each powerplant is assembled from start to finish by a single technician. We can't wait to see what it's like to drive.

©2019 Hearst Magazine Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a27813866/mercedes-amg-most-powerful-four-cylinder-m139/
 
@gt40fran Mercedes Benz is installing these engines in their cars transversely. What if we installed the engine/transmission combination into the SL-C transversely as well? Would there be weight and balance concerns? Any other concerns? Of course, it would need to fit.
 
Les,
The original concept for the SLC featured a transverse engine layout. I'll bet Fran still has that chassis stuffed away somewhere. Bust out your wallet and call him up!
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
The original first "SLC" type of idea that Fran had was a transverse arrangement. Way back when I even talked to him about a complete Audi 1.8T TT package kind of setup. The weight distribution would have been near perfect with the engine in sideways and the gearbox located right behind it. I think the total package for a 2ish litter 4 banger transverse gearbox would be near 200 pounds lighter than a LS/ 6 speed transaxle. A foot or more less in length also. This would reduce the overall mass of the car as well and maybe we could get down to that magical 1 ton weight target.

Generally here is what the engine and gearbox would look like. The head is crossflow so in amid engine layout the hot parts, header, turbo and exhaust would be behind the engine and the intake track in front against the firewall.

But in the end you have to sell them and most people who want to build one of these kind of car wants a V8 or better.
 

Attachments

A couple more alternatives, from Road & Track . . .

The Mustang GT’s V8 Is the Most Under-Appreciated Engine Out Right Now
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a20524720/2018-ford-mustang-gt-quick-drive

How Nissan Changes an SUV Engine Into a Full-Fledged Racing V-8

" . . . these engines are pulled from the same line as the SUV engines and only lightly breathed on by NISMO. . . .
Those that dream of replicating the sound of these race engines for the street might be in luck, the modifications aren’t terribly extensive."
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a30337821/nissan-race-engine-truck-motor/
 
New here, I have been considering building a SLC for a couple years, and now I find myself with the time and resources to do it. I know it is probably anathema around here to bring it up, but I think a really "sick" drive train might be a pure electric or hybrid. I have searched these forums and there is very little mention of hybrid or pure electric builds.
Bob,

Here's some hope for you . . .

Pistonheads.com
Swindon Powertrain launches crate EV motor
Dafydd Wood
Thursday, October 17, 2019
"Off the shelf engine swaps have been big business for decades; now it's the turn of electric powerplants..."
https://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-ev/swindon-powertrain-launches-crate-ev-motor/41140
 
The original first "SLC" type of idea that Fran had was a transverse arrangement. Way back when I even talked to him about a complete Audi 1.8T TT package kind of setup. The weight distribution would have been near perfect with the engine in sideways and the gearbox located right behind it. I think the total package for a 2ish litter 4 banger transverse gearbox would be near 200 pounds lighter than a LS/ 6 speed transaxle. A foot or more less in length also. This would reduce the overall mass of the car as well and maybe we could get down to that magical 1 ton weight target.

Generally here is what the engine and gearbox would look like. The head is crossflow so in amid engine layout the hot parts, header, turbo and exhaust would be behind the engine and the intake track in front against the firewall.

But in the end you have to sell them and most people who want to build one of these kind of car wants a V8 or better.
Fabulous, Howard Jones ! thanks for the support. As Jason Fenske says in Engineering Explained, more power equals more weight. We get so enamored of the highest horsepower figure that we forget we are making our car slower by chasing it. The best horsepower to weight ratio is what I would be after. And gt40fran said that with 400 horsepower, the SLC is really quick. So, why not 400 horsepower with the least weight possible? :)

Question: You wrote: "in the end you have to sell them . . . " do you mean, "The end state of an SLC is not that you build it and drive it yourself. You build an SLC and sell it. The people to whom you sell the SLC want a V8 or better(sic)."? Or do you mean something else? Thanks!
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
"Sane" SL-C builders would have a seizure if they knew what I'd build if I knew I had enough time left on Earth to enjoy it.

(Hint: The only performance areas I'm interested in are acceleration and top end speed. ;) )
 

Neil

Supporter
But Larry, you said that you were interested in top speed. :rolleyes: Last fall a wheel-driven car posted an exit speed of just over 500 mph!
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
But Larry, you said that you were interested in top speed. :rolleyes: Last fall a wheel-driven car posted an exit speed of just over 500 mph!
That doesn't mean I'm interested in WATCHING speed events, Neil...especially on salt! ;-)

Too difficult to get all that crud off one's car...and you know what will happen if you don't! :eek:
 

Neil

Supporter
Awww, c'mon Larry. I've seen a couple of Ferraris out there plus a 300SL gull-wing and a FF Daytona. Alternatively, you can run at the El Mirage dry lake. You'll get dirty but no rust or corrosion from running at Elmo.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Awww, c'mon Larry. I've seen a couple of Ferraris out there plus a 300SL gull-wing and a FF Daytona.
No matter what you may have seen out on the salt, Neil, it doesn't negate my point.


Alternatively, you can run at the El Mirage dry lake. You'll get dirty but no rust or corrosion from running at Elmo.
...and I could be persuaded to do that...if I already had the car I have in mind...which I don't...and, given my age, 'never will. ;)
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
Les, what I was referring to with the " in the end you have to be able to sell them" was that the original SLC concept that envisioned using a transverse front engine type engine /gearbox package mounted in the mid engine location. As far as I know Fran built one as a proof of concept but never really pursued the design. He and I had discussed it using a Audi A4 power train back then as well as a Acura system as well. That had to be more than 15 years ago I would think.

He changed focus and the current SLC is the result. I think you will agree that everyone benefited from that with what, a couple of hundred sold? If Fran has done one thing he has produced products that customers want to buy and at a price point that makes that possible. Good ol American capitalism is alive and well in Detroit.

A high output 4 banger and max attention to weight saving would be a very interesting track car design if it saved 200-300 or more pounds from a V8 (same power) version. But in the end of the mental exercise I had on the subject I concluded that a big torque V8 would be easier to drive on a track for most of us fat old men. I know I was right as far as my car went on this one. By the way I have a 450HP 5 speed SLC on ZO6 size Hoosiers that I believe will forever be faster that I can drive it for what it's worth.
 
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