possibly the sickest engine/tran package for an SLC ??

If the sound of a highly tuned MB/AMG v12 as used in the Zonda R (search YouTube) does not give you goose bumps and raise your blood pressure then a V8 of your preference is definitly the wiser choice.
Pete

If it is the sound of the exhaust of these exotic cars you are aiming for, just remember, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and others spend a considerable sum of cash getting the exhaust note just right. Dropping in a V12 and putting in a homebuilt exhaust with aftermarket mufflers may end up disappointing you.

I too like to see interesting engines used, Garry's rotary engine is an outstanding example, but for the majority of us, spending 20 grand and up on an engine, then 10's of thousands and months of labor to get it to run, the complete lack of support, along with outrageously high parts prices on these specialty powerplants is just too high a cost to bear. In Europe, I can understand the want of a BMW/Mercedes powerplant, they are the Ford and Chevrolet of Europe, easier to get parts for than a chevy/ford crate engine.

I cant wait to see Nils completed car, it will definitely generate more interest in using that engine.
 
I agree that just throwing an exit pipe and a cherry bomb muffler on the stock manifold of the old 12 will NOT get me where I want to go.

I have spent years as a sports car addict researching what engine configuration was most pleasing in every aspect I could think of and why the engine's made the sounds and had the power characteristics they do. And then it made sense why Mercedes and BMW had used the L6 engine in so many cars for so many years. Some people like the lumpy twisted crank V8 sound. I much prefer the flat plane Ferrari and Masarati V8s and even more so the V12s. By the way I have seen reference to "flat plane" V12s on this forum, and don't want to come off as snotty, but these folks need to do a little more research on why the various crankshafts are configured the way they are. An L6 and V12 share the same configuration of 3 plane crankshaft. The 12 just has somewhat wider journals to accomodate the extra con rods. And a 60 degree V12 is the angle of choice because it offers the prefered even 60 degree exhaust pulses, which makes exhaust tuning with equal length header primaries work so well, and sound so pleasing. Muffler choice IS critical as well. The QuickSilver mufflers for the Aston Martin V12s are some of the best sounding in the world. And they are NOT inexpensive. But again the SLC IS an exotic equivalent, not a slightly modified stock car.

In my opinion the new version of Ferrari's V12 with the 65 degree bank angle is NOT as desirable as the earlier 60 deg. engines. Just my opin.

The main downsides of the V12s are length and weight. Lighter weight is always preferable but I would compromise some on the weight to gain the other desired qualities in the engine. And as for the length. The car needs to be designed to accomodate the engine. I like the aesthetic of the long V12 with a well designed tuned intake and headers. It is one of the high water marks of automotive design in my opinion. Put me down as a starry eyed idealist!
 
Not everyone wants to run a Chev. To some of us they are the Big Mac of engines, sure they are simple and cheap, but some of us (out here in the world as opposed to the US anyway) prefer food.
I guess it's a matter of, er, I guess the word is taste... ;)

I am not against Chev's (in fact I use a SBC in my Jag) but I understand the OPs desire for something different.

Anyway, the OP seems to be looking at alternatives. I have seen a few supercharged Toyota V8s that seem successful. I don't think they needed huge boost to make them fun. I haven't heard of block issues amongst the ones I know of.
I have a clip somewhere of a drag Supra in Japan that uses the V8 with some success.
Maybe they would cost a bit more to modify than the conventional Chev (IDK),
but to some it might be worth it to have something different, or that fits their mindset more happily.

As for alloy engines, I have two alloy engines that run boost in the order of 30psi. (Or at least did until this year when I decided that I would wind them back for street use).
Just because it's alloy doesn't mean it is inherently flawed. That seems a little simplistic to me.
Alloy has many advantages over heavier materials. Lighter weight gives advantages in handling, braking and acceleration. You can go faster with less power.
There are many alloy block engines out there with very high outputs that do just fine.
Even if it were to make less power simply by being alloy, in my book a car needs to be something greater than a traffic light dragster. 0-60 means very little to me, it is an indicator but no more than that.

If I was building an SLC I would consider it as an exotic, maybe others wouldn't. Before I went down the Chev' route I would definitely be looking at engines that were at least a bit different to the conventional choice.
For some people the RB26 is the engine of choice, I can understand that, I love mine. For others it is Viper or Audi or whatever (for some it seems they would use a Chev' for everything, car, boat, chainsaw, dishwasher... :) ).
The eye of the beholder is what is important.

Fwiw - Toyota Engine Tuning Guide | Fast Car Magazine


Tim.
Naturally an emotional decision cannot be dissuaded using logic :heart:

If, and only if, you want the holy grail of 'exotic' japanese motors then the 2JZ-TE, RB26, and even 1UZ-FE are far from it. As an aside, I've heard good review of people 'stroking' the 1UZ block with the addition of 2UZ heads.

Anyways the true gem is Toyota's 1GZ-FE 5.0 V12 (from the Century Limousine)! Top Secret dropped one into a Supra and boosted it to the tune of 1000 BHP:


Here is a track video of that car. At 2:29-2:40 you can hear it's gorgeous exhaust note under load. From what I recall it's two 1JZ motors mated to a single block.
 
An SLC, GT40 or similar madness are more often than not bought as an emotional decision rather than logical - I rather thought that was the point.
Engine choice is similar, to some of us the Chev is simply too mundane a choice for a car that sits where the SLC does in our imaginations.
Choices like Big Mac or food, NASCAR or motor racing are made all the time and while many go with the norm there will always be some that make choices that others won't understand. Personally I think the world could do with a lot more tolerance in that regard...

RB26 is prob not the most exotic engine in the world to the OP but is exotic enough for his picture of the SLC and it is easy to get power from.
That is my take on the OPs desires anyway, I may be incorrect.

I have an RB26 and it is fantastic. I think one in an SLC would be amazing if it'd fit, although I would think hard about the handling.

I bet you wear homy peds Ryeno ;p
That reference probably means nothing to you, but thirty-forty years ago where I come from that would have been biting rib poking. :)

Tim.
 
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Scenario:

You have an SLC, Cobra, or whatever...

Would you rather have an 800hp engine or a 400hp engine? And why?

Personally, I'd rather wind up a lower powered car than tip toe a high powered car. I have some experience with Vipers, Vettes, the SL Razor, etc. The Razor (when running correctly) had a power to weight ratio of 5:1. When it had that kind of power, it was downright scary. When the turbo wasn't "boosting", power to weight was more towards 10:1. Not gonna lie... It was incredibly balanced and I didn't have to worry about the back in coming around anytime I floored it.

I think a stock LS3 or a Ford Coyote (or any engine with similar power) would be as perfect of a match as it can get with the SLC.

Just my $.02.
 
Wrote that half asleep...
There is everyday, there is exotic and there is fantasy (and whatever else you'd like to throw in). Where the lines between those are drawn depends on individual circumstance and point of view.
The RB26 is an easy engine to get decent power from and not stupidly expensive unless you want to push the envelope.
They sound AMAZING when tuned.
They won't be everyone's cup of tea, just as the Chev isn't.

Fully sik!


Tim.
 
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PeteB

GT40s Supporter
Scenario:

You have an SLC, Cobra, or whatever...

Would you rather have an 800hp engine or a 400hp engine? And why?

Personally, I'd rather wind up a lower powered car than tip toe a high powered car. I have some experience with Vipers, Vettes, the SL Razor, etc. The Razor (when running correctly) had a power to weight ratio of 5:1. When it had that kind of power, it was downright scary. When the turbo wasn't "boosting", power to weight was more towards 10:1. Not gonna lie... It was incredibly balanced and I didn't have to worry about the back in coming around anytime I floored it.

I think a stock LS3 or a Ford Coyote (or any engine with similar power) would be as perfect of a match as it can get with the SLC.

Just my $.02.
I had 300 rwhp in my Cobra and it was plenty. I dont see how guys with 500-600hp in a Cobra keep them on the road. A LS376/480hp will be more than enough for me in my SLC.
 
Scenario:

You have an SLC, Cobra, or whatever...

Would you rather have an 800hp engine or a 400hp engine? And why?

Personally, I'd rather wind up a lower powered car than tip toe a high powered car. I have some experience with Vipers, Vettes, the SL Razor, etc. The Razor (when running correctly) had a power to weight ratio of 5:1. When it had that kind of power, it was downright scary. When the turbo wasn't "boosting", power to weight was more towards 10:1. Not gonna lie... It was incredibly balanced and I didn't have to worry about the back in coming around anytime I floored it.

I think a stock LS3 or a Ford Coyote (or any engine with similar power) would be as perfect of a match as it can get with the SLC.

Just my $.02.
Mate, I had a Mini (a real one not the new one) and it had probably 120 bhp from it's ex race car 1310 (I really don't know what it put out) and it was a blast.
No power but great fun nevertheless. I probably should have put a Chev in it but I didn't want it to sound like my Mustang. ;p
Fun can be had in lots of ways. Variety, spice and all that.

If a yank V8 is your thing then go for it. I have Ford V8s, Chev V8, Merc V8, V6s, L6s, flat 4s, L4s and they are all good in their own way.
To be uncomfortably honest in this company, I am always mildly disappointed with the American V8s. No matter what I do to them they never seem to live up to my expectations. (And now I have the added worry of finding all the NSA devices hidden in them...;p )
The turbo Jap' motors - oh yeah! :)

Tim.
 
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I agree about the Fords and Chevys. To me, they just all sound the same (unless it has 180 degree exhaust). Some interesting engine ideas that run in my feeble mind are:

Audi 4.2 v8 w/ Boxster S trans
Ford EcoBoost 3.5 ttv6
Ford 3.7 v6
GM 3.6 v6
Nissan 3.7 v6
Subaru 4 or 6 (admittedly, the flat 4 Subies sound like crap)
Others....

Until now, I never knew an inline 6 could fit. But if it impedes the cabin size, I'm screwed. (I'm 6,5")
 
(admittedly, the flat 4 Subies sound like crap
How dare you sir! ;p
I am not really a fan of the general sound of them either but they really don't have to sound like that at all.
If you heard either of mine without seeing them I doubt you'd pick what they are.

How about the recent Volvo 60 degree V8?
Or perhaps the Toyota/Lotus TT V8? (With a proper box behind it)
An old Jag V12 if you have the inclination.
A DFV - (Please!)
One of the bike based V8s.
Audi/Lambo V10.
Whatever that engine is that they use in the recent Noble.
An engine I always liked - the Ferrari 355.
I am hearing on the grapevine that the Japanese have some serious and interesting engines on the way.

Every now and again I think about an SLC with my spare subie engine and box - it'd have to be a handling weapon! But I have too many projects already and if I do get something else it has to take a spot in line behind an open wheeler and a 917.

I think 500-700bhp range is about right for a road going 1000-1200 kilo car. Depending on torque characteristics.
That's what I aim for anyway. (We have very twisty roads and lots of mountains)
Any more power than that and I'd have trouble staying inside the speed limit. ;)
Of course if you use TC then you can go silly with numbers but only get 200 of it to the road like most modern "supercars"...


Tim.
 
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Here is the Volvo engine modified for a lame Australian race series.
Listen to Volvo

And I suspect it'd rev' a lot harder and make a lot more if the rules allowed.


Tim.
 
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\To be uncomfortably honest in this company, I am always mildly disappointed with the American V8s. No matter what I do to them they never seem to live up to my expectations.

Tim.
Interesting, in what way does a 525 HP LS3 that will mostly likely go 100,000 miles with little maintenance other than normal servicing (which is dirt cheap) disappoint? I have always found it easier (and cheaper) to get what I need for power in a Chevy or Ford based powerplant. Like I have said earlier, I enjoy seeing other engines used, and with money being no object there are quite a few cool powerplants to be used, however for weight/power, price, reliability, availability of parts and service, longevity, and drivability you will never beat the LS3 engines.

BTW, loud exhaust drowns out the NSA listening devices that are installed:thumbsup:
 
I think I am just too acclimatised to turbos.
500bhp V8s don't feel as quick to me as a little 500bhp turbo.
My GT40 makes something north of 500bhp (possibly quite a long way north) - fast enough to equal a V8 supercar (Australian premiere race series (...Unfortunately)) in a standing start sprint over 700 metres, but it feels slow to me compared to my little Turbo 4 banger which admittedly makes over 600, but it is heavier than the GT.
I also have a suspicion that all horses are not created equal in this world. I am sure that subject has been well discussed here before though.
It's not just that though, it's all that weight.
Even though my GT engine is aluminum it is still massively heavy compared to the little turbo 4.
If I wound the little engine down to about 400bhp I think it would probably be perfect for an SLC and I would have no problem with expecting it to be as hassle free as I would need. It would have to have the advantage in weight.
RB26 at 500ish bhp should be no problem.

There are many engines out there that can reliably produce 500bhp these days. One of them is the LS3.
It still sounds like an old Mustang/Camaro to me - which is great BTW, but maybe in some minds an SLC is more easily imagined in the garage if it sounds like a Zonda.
If it were me and I was thinking open mindedly I would be very interested in that Volvo engine.
I'm not saying the Chev' is a bad choice, I am just defending the OPs choice of something different. There is always a chorus of "Use a chev, don't be an idiot" and coming from somewhere other than America I don't think that way. It's just a Chev. Also I love the RB26 and I would defend it any day.

Of course there is always the possibility of a crossover exhaust turbo LS3... 8D
On the subject of crossovers, mine sounds great underway, but I am not a fan of it at idle... Sounds like an old truck.


Tim.

PS I love the sound of an old school V8. Horses for courses.
 
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I enjoy seeing other engines used, and with money being no object there are quite a few cool powerplants to be used, however for weight/power, price, reliability, availability of parts and service, longevity, and drivability you will never beat the LS3 engines.
Truism - it may not be the "sickest" engine package but IMO it outshines the other available choices/options as your above quote succinctly puts it.

Whatever happened to that LS, twin turbo'd Schwartz built 1,000hp motor. If that ain't sick enough - one needs to take up free fall jumping or something a little more intense than driving four wheels :wideeyed:.
 
I think what I wrote above makes sense. A few red wines have passed my lips... Apologies if it is gobbledygook, if so I will attempt to repair the damage tomorrow. :)

Tim.
 
Makes perfect sense, its the rule of what makes you smile when the loud pedal goes down.
If I may, quite possibly the "sickest" motor, you can thumb your nose at the Bugatti Veyron as you fly by with this engine behind your seat:
THE FIRST V8 ENGINE OVER 1000 CU. IN. ENGINE HERE AT SONNY'S! THIS MONSTER MAKES OVER 2150 HP, and over 1550 Ft. Lbs of Torque, AND YES IT'S NATURALLY ASPIRATED !!!! NICKNAMED " THE GODFATHER"

SAR 1005 (2150 HP) - Sonny's Racing Engines
 
at our weekend cabin and future SLC build location there'a guy down the road that fly's an old red biplane when the weather is nice, it sounds kind of crappy but when i heard him nose over and dive towards the water to start a loop i always looks his way because he generally is flying a wing walker on the top wing. My point is that i don't think either of them has much time to appreciate the engine sound as the adrenalin is flowing out of their ears...

Build what you can/want and bring it to a meet where we can all check out your build, i'm sure we'll all love them. Peace
 
Too bad the engine sound in that Mercedes S 600 video is so difficult to make happen in a SLC. It sounds fairly close to the sound from the Mazda 787B. That Mazda 787B sound is the best exhaust sound ever, and, I think, the sound that best matches the SLC's looks.

 
While I liked the sound of that Merc, boy would it piss off anyone within earshot! Neighbors, cops, people in the next county. . .
 
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