Roaring Forties agents UK and USA

Well guess I was fortunate, as I was in the line and about to make a real committment to a RF40's GT40.

For some time I have been hanging around the fringe of the GT40 circle. In particular the Roaring Forties.

I first met one of the UK staff along with the USA agent at Robert Logans business about 18 months ago. We took a run down the Great Ocean Road in Victoria at my invitation. I really enjoyed listening to them and being caught up in their enthusiam for what is no doubt a great product. I was really enthusiastic and excited.

On a recent rip to the USA I caught up with the RF40 agent again and travelled to a number of events. My passion was becoming all consumming, how could I manage to buy a RF40 GT40.

One thing that was very evident to me was the agents like me were caught up in the GT40 and all things about it. The enthusiasm was infectious. The thinking of..."Hell I have a job and an agency in a business I really love", was obvious and good to witness first hand.

So what did the agents know??.........

I do feel that the agents certainly were in no way aware of the problems that faced RF40 and Robert Logan. In fact the USA agent was busily extending workshops and building storage shelfs and work benches. Works that were being carried out at the agents own expense with a view of one day recouping this investment.

The USA agent wanted to present the RF GT40 in the best possible way.

When I travelled to the events I witnessed this agent spend his dollars on gas/fuel ,motels and food and all out of his pocket.

A blind belief perhaps that one day it would all be worth it. Hindsight now sees things a little different.

Whilst I am personally not aware how much the agents have spent on promoting the RF GT40's business at their expense. I can assure forum readers that well in excess of $3000 was spent out of my hosts pocket on our trip to London on Route 66 and to promote his agency and the product.

My host was certain that his personal investment in money and huge amount of time would one day pay off. Unfortunately it did not and I can only guess how many thousands of dollars he and others are out of pocket.

I asked the question about customer deposits and the opportunity of expenses and associated advertising. As a businessman I knew the agent was carrying considerable expenses on RF GT40's behalf.

I was shown an audit trail that clearly led directly to RF40 and Robert Logan in Australia. This agent like many others was totally out of pocket in a blind belief that one day the GT40's would come flowing in and commissions would follow.

Put simply, the agents have been caught up in this business failure along with their friends and customers.

I would hope that these same friends and customers see the real picture. It's not the agents who are in anyway to blame for the Director/owners mis management - if this proves to be the case.

The agents are exonerated and I was left without a dream fullfilled like them and many others.

Perhaps fortunately time was not right for me to place my deposit.

My thoughts are with you all and I hope that one day those who have really lost will one day get that GT40 - perhaps I also will.

I am in no way associated with RF GT40's or it's Director/owner Robert Logan in business. I do however consider his agents as friends and I hope you will also.

Nearly had a RF40 GT40.

Bernie, I saw the wonderful editorial of your trip in Kit Car and have also followed the theads of your visits to US over the last couple of years on another forum.

Like you, I was entertaining a GT40 as a project after the rebuilding of my cobra. I had telephoned Robert Logan some time back and frankly, I felt uneasy about the man. I don't know what it was but for some reason I didn't feel comfortable about the fellow.

However, I was still willing to entertain the purchase of an RF40 because I saw on here what appeared to be excellent support from him to his clients but more so, I saw the excellent support his US agents were giving their local clients and I figured that if Logan let me down I could still avail myself of assistance on here from the US agents.

To purchase an RF40 from Logan in Melbourne was to me a huge call because as you know, there is a manufacturer local to me with a very respectable GT40 kit.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that Logan could have sold me a kit (in spite of my feelings about him personally) purely on the basis of the excellent support I witnessed on here from the US agents and their dedication to the RF40 brandname.

Like you, I consider myself lucky that I was not caught like many others. I do hope your agent friends don't suffer too badly as they are every bit a victim as those who lost deposits.

Frankly, I feel for everyone who has been caught up in this very unfortunate affair.
Hi Les,

Yes, I was very very close - guess the rest is now history.

I don't want to get into a full discussion on what went wrong with RF GT40's business that's for the administrators and lawyers to work through. That's why they are paid upwards of $400 per hour!!!

You may know I nearly purchased the black GT40 Le Mans replica car at the Shelby Feast. Sam who was Roberts' manager and I drove up in convoy - I drove my Cobra - and my son Todd drove with Sam in the GT40.

Todd came up to me later at Winton Raceway and said.."Dad build your own, I don't really like the rear clip" So when your son says no, that's the end of that.. So back to playing with the Cobra.

That black RF GT40 is now the subject of the Administrators report to creditors, with the owner now taking possession of the GT40 and I understand that he is in the process of returning a deposit he took for the GT40 from Robert. My guess is this will be done beween his lawyers and the Administrators for probity.

A real mess to say the least.

I have been on this GT40 forum since early August last year, shortly after returning from the Shelby Auto event in Fontana and that 'Kit Car magazine' reported road trip. I have not 'Posted" as I was not sure how to go about the acquisition of a GT40 - kit or complete car. So now it's back to the Cobra for a while and the other forum you mention.

At this stage, I have re visted the Cobra and will do some tidy ups. New hard top perhaps. So yes the GT40 dream is on hold for the moment.....

Re Robert, I have always found him good company, honest and full of both enthusiasm and knowledge for his marque. Unfortunately somewhere between Australia and Sth. Africa it all went pear shaped.

I do know that a customer served notice on him for failure to meet a deliver date and that was the 'con rod' that let go. It would appear that Robert just walked away at this point. It was now common knowledge that he was having difficulties and it quickly crashed down around him.

My observation is one that Roberts' enthusiasm far exceeded his business knowledge. His apparent lack of understanding of working capital and business cash flow and business plans looks like being a major contributor.

Robert appears to have fully leveraged this Australian arm of RF GT40 along with his personal assetts to fund the cheaper build option in Sth. Africa. I'm really sorry that this happened to him and his family. And ultimately the agents and customers who may have lost the lot.

Again, the real fallout is that a number of customers and agents have possibly lost the lot. Secured creditors and former staff will get first bite on any assetts/dollars. I don't think there will be much left for the agents and the customers.

As I said, I just do not want to guess what went wrong at a micro level in Roberts plan - if there was a business plan

No doubt the Administrators will fully brief creditors. Suffice to say that I do not really know the details and I'm not about to starting guessing or placing any rubbish here on the forum.

I do know that the Administrators will copy this forum and it will in some part be presented and those "posting' information may well be called to present and suppoprt that information.

So what prompted me Les to get on here - this my first "post"..????

The point of my first 'Post" on this forum was one of support for the people whom I know in the UK and the USA. They are the real losers in this mess. I have met many of the customers and sat with potential owners in race rigs at Fontana California's SAAC event.

To share their enthusiasm was addictive to say the least.

To the RF GT40 agents it's been a little like a death in the family. I know that they would be asking the question and stating the obvious.."if only we had known, we could have done this or that". That real feeling of helplessness when something slips out of your hands.

Agents have spent many thousands of dollars of their money working with Robert and creating a loyalty for RF GT40's in the UK and the USA. In most instances they have lost literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of their money. I would expect RF GT40 would not pay commission to agents until delivery of the GT40. Additionally, any deposits given to agents are forwarded to RF GT40 bank or directed at RF GT40 instruction to their creditors. So lets not blame agents...

As a former Administrator and Chairman of Commissioners with the Premier in Victoria, I do know for sure that the agents would have been advised to keep out of any public slinging match. They also have the option of listing as un secured creditors if they take up this option as a last resort.

Additionally, they may remain or desire to remain as agents if RF GT40 is restarted in any form. Yes the agents are in a dufficult position and equally at a large loss no matter what the future.

I like many, am more than cognisant that some/most of the dribble here about RF GT40 is hearsay. The actual customers of RF GT40 are the only ones that have some real knowledge. So hence my caution stating my observations only, as I really do not know.

It's good that a few people who were close to the Sth. Africa business have been able to shed some light - Andre etc.

Unfortunately most of the customers will be kept in the dark until the Administrators full report to creditors is realised.

Les like you I feel for everyone who has been caught up in this....

I'm heading off to the USA first thing Monday next and will be catching up with one or two agents and customers.

I feel it's going to be a little like a funeral. I don't know what I'm going to say. Guess.."its a real loss and there was very little you could do about it as an agent, don't blame yourself.

Bernie, I never met Robert, only chatted on the phone, so my hesitation was simply a gut feeling that may well have changed had I met him.

And, like you, this is only my third post after having been content to lurk and observe.

Give my regards to the fellas in the states. I'd appreciate you mentioning to them that their past enthusiasm and willingness to assist their clients was recognised here and was a signifcant factor in my almost purchasing a RF40.

I know this sounds silly but I feel pi$$ed that RF have folded. All that dreaming, planning, comparing, observing, down the dare they!.

Sheezzz, imagine what I'd be like if I had paid a deposit and been caught.

Cheers Bernie and have a great trip. the cobra Hardtop.....beat ya...I ordered my hardtop from Brian Crane a month ago and guess I will get it shortly.

The hardtop makes a difference. Now for aircon....Ha haaa.

Don't get me wrong either, I think that Robert has really f..cked up here.

And how dare he?. Both of our dreams!!. Luckily unlike some, no money sent/lost for either of us!! thoughts and observations...........

Roberts' failure to seek good sound legal and business advice has seen his and the RF GT40's demise.

With the wisdom of hindsight and a macro view, I feel that he was certainly well under capitalised and was working in a difficult environment - no adverse reflection on the Sth. African business people.

Robert needed to be on the ground driving the business daily in Sth. Africa and was not. Perhaps he did not understand that.

Les, I do however know, he will be annoyed that he is being discussed so on an open forum, guess he know or would expect this would eventually happen.

Anyway, back to Sth. Africa. Robert needed to be working side by side with the Sth. African partners until the business was up and running to their joint/mutual satisfaction. This required to be day after day for six months or more as needed. Along with the necessary upfront working capital to ensure creditors and staff were paid.

However, regarding the RF GT$)'s agents and customers. I will fight to the end for the agents and the customers all who fell in behind Robert in a blind faith believing that Robert knew what he was doing. As it now appears that he did not.

Some of these customers and agents are friends or acquintances, whom I met when travelling. This was the point of my first 'Post" stating that the agents are the bigger dollar losers, with many thousands of dollars spent preparing for the flood of RF GT40's into the UK and the USA. Blindly believing that Robert and RF GT40's Sth. Africa, would deliver a first class product.

When you see the product, you can easily understand the agents enthusiasm for the RF GT40. The UK and USA agents undying promotion and subsequent defence for any delays or holdups as research and development took place is well documented. I really like the product, it is first class.

I know the agents and customers knew and understood this was a new venture in Sth. Africa for RF GT40's. One that would have some holdups and teething problems. Most were patient believing that all was going well.

Well the agents were certainly told so by RF GT 40's and passed on the information as it came to hand.

One agent in particular was placing adds, taking phone calls and promoting the RF GT40 up to the last minute thinking like everyone else that all was well all be it slow. Sure some delays, but Robert is a perfectionist and these delays were expected. This was after all the best GT40 of all time and customers wanted the best...

With regard to the Sth. African business environment, I really believe - from a micro perspective - Robert was under capitalised and had no cleare business plan. Hell, he just had to throw more capital at it to make it work...

Damn, I'm an armchair expert now Les.... I'll sneak out and have another Fosters.

John B

Temp Selling Pass
First let me say that you contradict yourself by making all those assumptions and then state it is hersay. Do you know for a fact the one particular agent spent hundreds of thousands of his own money? Or did he state that he was spending his own money?. I know for a fact that this is the farthest from the truth. If true, why did One such agent drop out of legal action against RL. I really think that your relationship with a particular agent has jadded fiction from fact and it is a attempt to save a reputation of a friend. IF you had lost your deposit, I think you would have had more hinesight of the facts and not "DRIBBLE" idle chatter regarding the facts that has not been revealed to individuals that did not have interest in RF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twocents.gif

I guess that you only read the parts/portions of 'Posts' that suit your purpose.

I am not an affected customer of RF GT40's and neither are you - if I read this forum correctly. I think I was clear about my postion from the start.


No assumptions just plain old observation on my part and first first hand as I witnessed as I was there.

The reference to 'hearsay' that I made, was regarding the dribble that some have placed on this forum and I state that no reference was made to you or any particular person .

Hearsay is what is said outside the presence and the hearing of those involved. I'm not involved and neither are you. So I'm at a loss as to your point?

Customers, agents and RF GT40 - Robert L. are involved, you and I are not. Anything other than direct observation or direct participation in conversation would fall within speculation or hearsay.

The "all these assumptions" that you refer to are, as I have just stated and in the previous 'Posts' are just my observations.

I'm in fact not assuming - your word - anything, I am just stating what I saw.

One does not need to be an accountant to know that when a person/agent travels from event to event for some two years promoting a product they would spend thousands on all the expenses I have listed above. Two years of basic wages alone would exceed $60,000 at my estimate alone. Not to mention on the road cost and mileage.

Yes, I have seen the expense that the agents have incurred and my reference here is not to one particular agent. I was with the UK and USA representatives in Australia and I know what it costs to fly here alone etc.

Again, if you read my 'Post' you will see that I highlighted the expenditure that I saw over one event. I know this agent was at three other events I attended. The Run N' Gun, SAAC and the Arizona stadium shows.

This is not hearsay, I was there and saw the cost of fuel, travel, accommodation, show entry first hand.

Yes I am close to the agents and their staff. I spent time with them in Australia and I guess you know the USA agent and I spent a lot of time together in your fine country. If you missed it, just read your Kit Car magazine.

I'm thankful that they spent time with me.

If I had placed a deposit I would like any customer be looking to the company and not it's agent.

At the end of the day, as simplistic as it is, the agent is the representative or messenger for the company. They like anyone else in their position pass on the information that they are given.

I can tell you and other forum users, this was as a big as a shock to the agents as it was to the customers of RF GT40 and forum participants. I know the agents had no idea.

I am at a loss as to why some people see the agents at fault. Again. as I said they passed on the information that was given to them. I understand that commissions were only forthcoming on delivery.


Additionally, you post that an agent has dropped out of legal action against RL.

How do you know this?

How are you in a position to know what this agent is doing personally?

Has this agent briefed legal counsel in their own right rather than be part of a joint position?

Or has the agent decided to wait and see if the RF GT40's can trade out of the current situation. Who knows that agent may feel that they want to continue with whom ever takes the company over - this could happen as the Administrator has stated in their report that substaintial interest has been shown in RF GT40's since it was placed in the Administrators hands.


Neither you or I know what these agents are considering. I do however know it is certainly not my business and it's not yours.

I clearly pointed out that I was a friend of the agents and their staff. So I'm at a loss to your reference to 'fiction and fact'.

Are you saying that I have personally misled readers here.

Are you saying that I'm telling lies.

What are you saying about me?

Please state the name of the agent that you have made reference to.

Additionally state your case against that agent .

Pleasde make your allegations clearly against that agent.

Please be very clear. I await your response.
First let me say that I tend to agree with most of what you say but let me just add that as a former RF owner and unhappy customer that the US agent is someone I now know personally and let it be said that he has invested alot of time and money-ALOT.
Regardless of what you feel about the a-hole in Australia The employees that I have met or now know are all good people. I really think that only the inner circle and not the agents would know of the situation RF was/is in.
Relax on the innocent, have a beer or try to get layed your gonna give yourself a stroke with all that pent up anger.
Just be glad you didn't lose anything in your deal. You really sould be hapy.
Oliver, I think it also important for you to recognise that Bernies "relationship" as you put it, with the RF40 agents was formed before RF40 was a factor in the relationship.

Bernie ownes a very nice cobra, as did the RF40 agents in the US.....It was the common ownership of cobras that drew these folks together and was the catalyst for the friendship.

Friendships were forged in those times and as life has it, folks took on other interests as their life evolved. Some simply built a GT40, as that is to some a natural extension of cobra ownership.

Those who built the RF40 GT40's progressed to becoming agents. Not unlike many of us as we get to that age when we'd like to maybe semi-retire and pursue more enjoyable interests.

RF in it's Australian incarnation was an impressive enterprise. A clean professional factory. An excellent product, impressive after sales support and an apparent excellent future.

Why wouldn't some-one considering a lifestyle change get in on the ground floor and put their heart and soul into their end of the venture?. To their credit that's exactly what the US agents did and in so doing invested considerable funds as an investment into their own future.

Now, as it has evolved, RF has gone belly up and have sadly hurt a significant number of folks. That significant number of folks INCLUDE the very agents we are discussing who may, in the overall scheme of things have possibly lost much more than a deposit on a car.

That is not to say that I'm trivializing the loss of a deposit by some folks in the manner it has happened.

That sad fact remains that many folks have been hurt.... but hurt in many different ways.

You ask ...."Do you know for a fact the one particular agent spent hundreds of thousands of his own money? Or did he state that he was spending his own money?. I know for a fact that this is the farthest from the truth."

Oliver, unless you have close links to these agents, know of their dreams and ambitions, know what they have personally invested in their ventures. If you do know...then put up....but don't make accusations that are maybe detrimental to some-ones reputation based on a personal vendetta.


Crikey! I think this should be renamed Can't seem to find a thread without him in it somewhere.

Anyway, you can't deny he seems to have a finely tuned BS detector. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flamed.gif
hi guys

it is time for some sanity to return to this Forum, the RF situation is unfortunate we all know but this continuing SLANDER that is going on has to stop and the sooner the better.

Recently in the British courts a gentleman successfully prosecuted an outspoken lady that was simply calling him names in the public domain. I raise this point because I see this heading in the same direction, so please lets get back to meaningful logical discussion about building and driving GT40'S.

So please lets act like adults and return the forum back to what it was, before those sensible contributors that have something relevant to say all leave.


Chris Melia.

Ron Earp

I do know that a customer served notice on him for failure to meet a deliver date and that was the 'con rod' that let go. It would appear that Robert just walked away at this point. It was now common knowledge that he was having difficulties and it quickly crashed down around him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Bernie,

I'll not be long winded but it is only natural that those affected by RF will investigate various avenues available to them in order to understand the situation. I think you would too if affected similarly, and I'm sure Hershal or Rick would follow along those lines if they were a customer as well. I don't feel that this is malicious, but it is a simple reaction and necessary one for many people.

I found the quote above curious, and not in a negative way. Once I made some posts regarding RF on the forum and the news "broke", I organized the affected owners to retain an attorney. One of the things we did was serve Roaring Forties with a "test case" to deliver a car, however, the case was mote because before it could be served Roaring Forties was in voluntary administration to my knowledge of events. Therefore, I wonder who else served notice on him?

Regardless, it appears the notices did nothing except bring Roaring Forties to the realization that the business is/was/had failing/failed. And failure of the business had been reached a long time ago apparently, from what the administrators have determined, although nobody but Robert and maybe some people close to him in Australia knew that.

I don't think the agents knew the business was in trouble. In fact, when I would email Robert or Hershal about my car the answer received about it was essentially the same. Robert was in control of all the information flow about the South Africa situation and told the agents whatever he saw fit. I increased the frequency of emails and calls to RF around December/January. But again, Robert told me things were delayed but were coming along, don't worry, we'll get the cars finished up. The agents said the same, but they were working with Robert's information and I think they were also perplexed by late February. Rick and UK customers might have been more optimistic since they actually got some cars in the UK, but that is speculation on my part.

Truly a sad case for all involved and there is much left undetermined at this point with respect to the Roaring Forties business, liquidation, and further lawsuits. I recently received an in-depth Creditors Report for the administrators looking into the RF saga and it does have a lot of interesting pieces of information. However, I have not yet found out if this report is for the public domain, although I am trying to do so. If it is for the public domain or can be circulated I will post it on the forum for all to read. It would answer a good many questions, but still leaves the largest one unanswered - why?


Ron Earp

Pete, nobody is at the helm to call to pull it. And, most internet providers leave sites up until a couple of months past due. I've saved it for reference, and if anyone ever wanted old versions of it they could use various internet archives like The WayBack Machine. You can go back as early as 2000 there on the RF site.

It appears liquidation is inevitable for Roaring Forties. Indeed, this was highly predictable four weeks ago but the administrators' decision is near. If I can get some time I'll try and post an update and synopsis of what I understand and can share.
Hi Bernie,

I like your writing style, it’s clear, concise and rational. Thank you also for your supportive post.

Once again I might be putting my neck in a noose by expressing my opinion but I’m happy to do so as I believe that I’m bullet proof by now!!!

There is no ways that Hershal Byrd and Rick Chattell can be remotely or in any way be blamed for the RF debacle or indeed be implicated in any way whatsoever. Not at any time did they communicate directly with the Cape Town factory or were they privy to production schedules or anticipated deliveries. This was a strict instruction from Robert Logan who said that he would be one and only person to communicate with Hersh and Rick.

I met Rick briefly about three years ago, basically to be introduced to for about one minute. My first impression was that here was a tough guy with a military aura and someone who could be a member of the elite British SAS. I don’t believe I was far wrong.

Rick owns or is involved with a marketing company and for while we corresponded with regard to Rick’s company importing and marketing South African goods sourced by me, ie plastic raincoats, plastic storage systems, fold up chairs, metal trays, even a Tudor style kiddies fold-up cardboard wendy house and more. During our communication not once was there ever a mention of the name GT40.

I offered Hersh the US agency for a locally made stainless steel camper trailer and subsequently asked him if he would like to be an agent for a South African aircraft parts manufacturer and offer the parts to an Arizona based company in the same business. He declined with thanks both offers as he said he was on a military pension and only had time to focus on his Roaring Forties agency. Apart from the mention of RF there was absolutely no further reference to the name GT40.

Hersh was a Colonel in the dreaded Vietnam war and subsequently a police officer with senior rank in the Arizona police force as I understand it. I subsequently discovered that my initial assessment of Rick was spot on.

Both these gents served their countries at a high level and saw service under extremely dangerous circumstances and there’s no f……… way I’m going to sit here in Cape Town and watch them maligned or implicated in any way in the RF mess, by possibly some wimps who would poo in their pants at the thought of looking down the barrel of a gun let alone having experienced it. They were as much victims as were the customers who lost their deposits.

If I have to look down a barrel of a gun for having defended Hersh and Rick I’ll be happy to do so!

André 40
hi guys

it is time for some sanity to return to this Forum, the RF situation is unfortunate

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow Chris. Welcome back. With all of this openness flying around I thought you disappeared /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif


Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I believe the VAST majority agree
that the Agents were not responsible for RFs failure.
However it's understandable for SOME to believe the
Agents should have figured out RF was in serious trouble
sooner...particularly given Hersh's police background.

That said...I still have admiration for the time and effort Hersh and others invested in RF. Anyone who thinks it's easy
should try it !

hi Gary

well, I have not disappeared and have been working to help out were I can with the demise of RF, this included a trip to the USA to meet with Ron, Hershal and Fran Hall.

This was to see what help could be provided to the affected RF customers. I am pleased to say that some good came out of this and as a result some of these customers can still peruse there dreams of GT40 ownership.

I have also met with affected customers in the UK and one of the finance guys behind Camco with a view to seeing what could be done with relationship to the six cars still in South Africa. At this time no resolution has been found.

I have also discussed and assisted a chap from Australia that is interested in buying RF from the receiver, obviously he needed to know as much information as I could give him. I also put him in touch with Robby from Camco and some of the affected customers from Phoenix.

I know that you are unhappy with me for breaking the news when CAV had gone into receivership a couple of years ago but had failed to inform its agents or customers even though it was in the public domain in South Africa.
I don't see what your problem is, I know at the time you thought that I was just having a go but that's not what I am about, I posted to inform all the members of the Forum customers and agents alike, you cannot deny that what I said was accurate and true.

As Andre said there is no point shooting the messenger.

I was extremely pleased that the new CAV rose out of the ashes and sincerely hope that they continue to go from strength to strength. I also fully understand the post from them distancing themselves from Robert Logan and RF after the failure of their negotiations.

At the end of the day I am a GT40 guy and will always try to help those involved in the GT40 community there has been enough of the flame wars over the last few months to seriously disenchant those serious forum members so lets hope that it is finally over.

I wish you good fortune with the CAV and may you prosper.


Chris Melia.