Well done Howard....
cant wait to see some in car video and get your first impressions on the track
cant wait to see some in car video and get your first impressions on the track
SLC 24 Howard Jones
- Thread starter Howard Jones
- Start date
Dave Lindemann
Lifetime Supporter
Howard - Given all that you have done to this point this sounds like a piece of cake! Very nicely done, congratulations! Best of luck with all of your upcoming adventures.
Dave L
Howard Jones
Supporter
Dave and Fran. Two steps forward ones step back or sideways gets it done!
I will post a better sound/video of the engine running when I get my friend back over with the Go Pro. It is louder than I had hoped. I will need to do more work on DB reduction later.
Fran, I remember at some point you said that all the shims on the control arms in one direction or the other got you the designed caster settings. Was I dreaming or what's the deal on caster.
Camber and toe are easy (strings, straight edges, rulers and levels) De Vinci tech. But I don't have a simple way to do caster.
Dave, Moving is going to really put a hold on the car hobby but we WILL get this car done (and fix the GT40) before I move. Long term goal is COTA in 2016 baby!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to everybody for the help and encouragement. Keep it coming my friends.
I will post a better sound/video of the engine running when I get my friend back over with the Go Pro. It is louder than I had hoped. I will need to do more work on DB reduction later.
Fran, I remember at some point you said that all the shims on the control arms in one direction or the other got you the designed caster settings. Was I dreaming or what's the deal on caster.
Camber and toe are easy (strings, straight edges, rulers and levels) De Vinci tech. But I don't have a simple way to do caster.
Dave, Moving is going to really put a hold on the car hobby but we WILL get this car done (and fix the GT40) before I move. Long term goal is COTA in 2016 baby!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to everybody for the help and encouragement. Keep it coming my friends.
Howard,
everything centered will give you approx. 6 deg of caster in front...a pretty safe place to start.
everything centered will give you approx. 6 deg of caster in front...a pretty safe place to start.
Dr. David
Lifetime Supporter
Hi Howard,
Car sounds great! I love the "real" SBC engine!
If you want to do a true and accurate set-up on your car, try something like this:
Professional Camber/Caster Gauge* - Tenhulzen Automotive
or this:
Professional 4-Wheel Alignment System - Tenhulzen Automotive
You may find that your values for caster, camber, and toe will change as your suspension settles-in during the break-in of your car. Going off-track into the kitty litter will have the same effect. Having the capabilities of verifying and/or changing your set-up in the pits between runs on a track-day can be very beneficial.
No matter how much horsepower/weight ratio you have, if your set-up is off, you might as well just go home and save your car for another day......or change your set-up and go back out and have fun.
Just my opinion,
David
Car sounds great! I love the "real" SBC engine!
If you want to do a true and accurate set-up on your car, try something like this:
Professional Camber/Caster Gauge* - Tenhulzen Automotive
or this:
Professional 4-Wheel Alignment System - Tenhulzen Automotive
You may find that your values for caster, camber, and toe will change as your suspension settles-in during the break-in of your car. Going off-track into the kitty litter will have the same effect. Having the capabilities of verifying and/or changing your set-up in the pits between runs on a track-day can be very beneficial.
No matter how much horsepower/weight ratio you have, if your set-up is off, you might as well just go home and save your car for another day......or change your set-up and go back out and have fun.
Just my opinion,
David
Howard Jones
Supporter
Thanks Dave. I like to tune suspensions. I completely fixed my GTD (no mean feat) and made what was undriveable into pretty damn near perfect, at least for me. I'm looking forward to the setup journey with my SLC.
You can do a really good chassis setup in your garage with really basic aids. I kinda like doing it that way. It sorta makes me feel like I am doing things the way it was done back in the day.
In the end I usually take it to a alignment rack and see what I have. This time I have a aero package to add to the fun.
Fran, Centered means same number of washers on each side right of the rod ends, right . Center the rear also? What does the rear like for caster? Thanks for the help buddy.
You can do a really good chassis setup in your garage with really basic aids. I kinda like doing it that way. It sorta makes me feel like I am doing things the way it was done back in the day.
In the end I usually take it to a alignment rack and see what I have. This time I have a aero package to add to the fun.
Fran, Centered means same number of washers on each side right of the rod ends, right . Center the rear also? What does the rear like for caster? Thanks for the help buddy.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Hey John, how's it going. We were back there to interview builders in January. 8 in 5 days and ran out of time. Thanks for the hospitality when we were there. Next time we come back we would like to take you and the wife to the Salt Lick in Wimberley. We really liked it.
How's the shop coming along. I can't wait to get mine done and move in. Gonna be a busy year . See ya all soon!
How's the shop coming along. I can't wait to get mine done and move in. Gonna be a busy year . See ya all soon!
Howard Jones
Supporter
New Braunfels
Howard Jones
Supporter
As I begin to finish off the last of the parts fabrication I found that I needed to either do the front splitter diffusers now or do the brake duct receivers twice. The duct pieces need to be mounted on top of the diffuser tunnels so that the front bodywork can be removed without disturbing the brake cooling hoses or their ductwork.
After I took the splitter off I was thinking that I want to be able to extend the splitter with a piece of aluminum bolted to the bottom. The bottom isn't flat so that needed to be done also.
I could have pilled the cavity with fiberglass but not only would it be heavy it would be a lot of layers. Then I looked at expanding foam, and that's what I did to smooth the bottom of the splitter. This stuff is two part and it's pretty easy to use. The only thing I needed to learn was to not try and shape it wet, just pore it on and sand it to shape after. It comes off really fast with my cheese grader thingie. Then a I added a layer of mat and weave fiberglass .
The tunnels are made from a form first and then bonded and riveted to the splitter. I really tried to make them as functional as possible. Their angles were determined after talking to a Rolex prototype engineer I met at COTA in Texas when we were there for the ALMS/Daytona prototype race last year. I showed him my car on line and we looked at the nose pictures with out the body on and off. We talked over a hour about tunnel angles and ride height relationships and so I came up with these. Basically the exhaust paths are pretty obstructed but he believed I could gain some downforce in two ways. First the tunnels themselves will create some negative pressure under the splitter and second the added clearance in front of the tire will deplete pressure buildup in front of the tire
that would create lift.
The fender vents, splitter modifications and to be built canards are as far as I want to go at least for now. The big ass wing that others are using that seams to be the best pure racecar solution to the front of the cars downforce question isn't what I want to do.
Anyway here are the pictures.
After I took the splitter off I was thinking that I want to be able to extend the splitter with a piece of aluminum bolted to the bottom. The bottom isn't flat so that needed to be done also.
I could have pilled the cavity with fiberglass but not only would it be heavy it would be a lot of layers. Then I looked at expanding foam, and that's what I did to smooth the bottom of the splitter. This stuff is two part and it's pretty easy to use. The only thing I needed to learn was to not try and shape it wet, just pore it on and sand it to shape after. It comes off really fast with my cheese grader thingie. Then a I added a layer of mat and weave fiberglass .
The tunnels are made from a form first and then bonded and riveted to the splitter. I really tried to make them as functional as possible. Their angles were determined after talking to a Rolex prototype engineer I met at COTA in Texas when we were there for the ALMS/Daytona prototype race last year. I showed him my car on line and we looked at the nose pictures with out the body on and off. We talked over a hour about tunnel angles and ride height relationships and so I came up with these. Basically the exhaust paths are pretty obstructed but he believed I could gain some downforce in two ways. First the tunnels themselves will create some negative pressure under the splitter and second the added clearance in front of the tire will deplete pressure buildup in front of the tire
that would create lift.
The fender vents, splitter modifications and to be built canards are as far as I want to go at least for now. The big ass wing that others are using that seams to be the best pure racecar solution to the front of the cars downforce question isn't what I want to do.
Anyway here are the pictures.
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Howard Jones
Supporter
Working the "to do" list. Front brake ducts done. This isn't as easy as buying some big hose and hooking it up. It took me a couple of hours to get the hose not to interfere with the wheel lock to lock and full droop to full bump. Had both springs all the way loose for this exercise. It wasn't exactly the same side to side either. I think it is the natural lay of the tubing. Whatever, its all good now.
The other little ducts are for the rear uprights. I was able to do them in aluminum this time. New material was the key I guess. Buying new material when I had about a hundred pounds of scrap pieces laying around really hurt. Ohhh........... my ears are burning.
The other little ducts are for the rear uprights. I was able to do them in aluminum this time. New material was the key I guess. Buying new material when I had about a hundred pounds of scrap pieces laying around really hurt. Ohhh........... my ears are burning.
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Howard Jones
Supporter
Still working the final items on the list. Completed the rear brake ducting and added the scoops in the lower half of the bigger side scopes. Here's the reason I made them bigger all that time ago.
I made a set of upper control arms. I am interested in moving the complete rear suspension all the way inboard as much as possible. That means turning all the rod ends all the way in. When I did this before I had interference with the upper control arm and the pushrod at full droop. These eliminate the interference at the push rod.
And I got to try the tubing notching program. It works and does give you a good place to start grinding. The second arm took about 2 hours to do complete with welding. I added the gussets after I took these pictures. You can see them on the brake pics.
One more thing to make and the parts making and assemble is DONE!...............well for now.......... Then paint body and put it all back together.
I made a set of upper control arms. I am interested in moving the complete rear suspension all the way inboard as much as possible. That means turning all the rod ends all the way in. When I did this before I had interference with the upper control arm and the pushrod at full droop. These eliminate the interference at the push rod.
And I got to try the tubing notching program. It works and does give you a good place to start grinding. The second arm took about 2 hours to do complete with welding. I added the gussets after I took these pictures. You can see them on the brake pics.
One more thing to make and the parts making and assemble is DONE!...............well for now.......... Then paint body and put it all back together.
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What "tubing notching program" are you using?
I have seen several "tube notching" programs online. they basically make a paper pattern you wrap around the tube. Here is one:
Tube Coping Calculator
Tube Coping Calculator
Howard Jones
Supporter
That's it. I did have to play with it a bit until I could get printed patterns that were the correct size but it may be me, my computer, printer who knows. After a few try's all was well.
Like I said, good for a small project. Otherwise buy a quality notching tool if you are contemplating building a full roll cage for example.
If I was going to try and build a chassis for example I would invest in one of these.
https://www.jd2.com/c-19-tubepipe-notchers.aspx
Like I said, good for a small project. Otherwise buy a quality notching tool if you are contemplating building a full roll cage for example.
If I was going to try and build a chassis for example I would invest in one of these.
https://www.jd2.com/c-19-tubepipe-notchers.aspx
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Howard Jones
Supporter
LAST PARTS MADE AND INSTALLED!!!!!
I made some canards modeled off the ones on the Gecko car. Mine are a little bigger but basically the same.
Next take it all apart and paint it, then put it all back together. While the body is off I am going to bleed the brakes and clutch and do a baseline setup alignment on the car.
Then I gonna DRIVE it.
I made some canards modeled off the ones on the Gecko car. Mine are a little bigger but basically the same.
Next take it all apart and paint it, then put it all back together. While the body is off I am going to bleed the brakes and clutch and do a baseline setup alignment on the car.
Then I gonna DRIVE it.
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Howard Jones
Supporter
Clutch bled and works, brakes bled and seam OK but without a test drive yet. A little advice here. Bench bleed masters before you start. Doing it completely dry from the start will take hours. Still will work, but much more work for the wife......................
Just for the record. Front and rear masters for brakes are 7/8 diameter. Clutch master is 1 inch. I called CMS on that one but Rodger confirmed that the Porsche slave was 24mm so that and a 1 inch master would be 1 to 1. That was what he recommended. The 7/8 masters for the brakes seam a little big but I'll have to see how it feels when it is being driven smartly. I like a hard peddle. Very little movement. No guess work when you go for the brakes.
Brakes will need to be bled at least 1 more time I suspect. It seams that all the little bubbles need to regroup so that they will bleed out. She'll love to hear that!!!!!!!!!!!!
Started the alignment. First I set ride heights at 4 inch's front and 4.5 inches rear. I used a point directly between the pickup points on the lower A Arms on the chassis rail. Then set toe at all straight ahead (no toe in) I'll come back to this when the camber is set. Maybe today. Lots of racing on TV today.
This is all easier to do with the body off. OH! I almost forgot..............Body off to paint shop. Getting real close now.
Just for the record. Front and rear masters for brakes are 7/8 diameter. Clutch master is 1 inch. I called CMS on that one but Rodger confirmed that the Porsche slave was 24mm so that and a 1 inch master would be 1 to 1. That was what he recommended. The 7/8 masters for the brakes seam a little big but I'll have to see how it feels when it is being driven smartly. I like a hard peddle. Very little movement. No guess work when you go for the brakes.
Brakes will need to be bled at least 1 more time I suspect. It seams that all the little bubbles need to regroup so that they will bleed out. She'll love to hear that!!!!!!!!!!!!
Started the alignment. First I set ride heights at 4 inch's front and 4.5 inches rear. I used a point directly between the pickup points on the lower A Arms on the chassis rail. Then set toe at all straight ahead (no toe in) I'll come back to this when the camber is set. Maybe today. Lots of racing on TV today.
This is all easier to do with the body off. OH! I almost forgot..............Body off to paint shop. Getting real close now.
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Howard
I recommend 3/4 front and 7/8 rear masters for the brakes
I recommend 3/4 front and 7/8 rear masters for the brakes
Howard Jones
Supporter
Well this is what I got with the peddle box. If you want to send me the correct 3/4 go ahead. Thanks Fran. What do you recommend for camber and toe settings. Using R6 Hoosiers. Only track work.
