SLC 24 Howard Jones

Roger Reid

Supporter
Howard, I agree with you that setting the rear upright at vertical (at ride height) is correct. I believe it was designed that way. Howard you know all this stuff but just because this is an interesting subject...
The SLC rear double A arm suspension toe in is set by adjusting the length of the toe link. The washers above and below the outer toe link set the bump steer. Set the outer toe link too low and during suspension compression the wheel will move towards toe out (bump steer). Set the outer toe link too high and the wheel will move to toe in during suspension compression (bump steer). Set it just right and bump steer is minimized. I believe current thought is that if bump steer cannot be completely dialed out, it is better to move towards toe in than toe out. I believe this is because toe in during bump or rather roll will cause the wheel to resist rear oversteer. If the outboard rear wheel in roll went to toe out it would encourage oversteer. When the rear caster at ride height is set to zero or vertical it would only stay at zero if the two A arms were parallel. They are not. Other things that come into play are anti squat and anti dive.

Fred Puhn in his book was referring to trailing link radius rods. If the radius rods caused the wheel to move rearward during roll or bump that would induce toe out or oversteer. The opposite would cause toe in or understeer.

One thing Fred mentions in his book is to keep a log of setups and record your results. If you make a change to the worse, you can always go back.

The more you read about suspension setups you realize how much you really don’t know. Admittedly I don’t know Jack. But I do know he has a wife named Loda and two kids named Fulla and Bull.

Now if rear bump steer has been dialed out and the rear kingpin angle is zero there must be 8 plus inches of scrub radius... does rear caster really exist?
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
Rodger, that's exactly what I did when I first put the rear of the car together those many years ago. I set the upper and lower a-arms in the center of their range with an equal number of washers on each side of the rod ends. This is what Fran told me was the default setup.

I then took the spring off the shock on one side and jacked the tire up and down and measured toe. About 2 1/2 inches of bump and 1 of droop at the outside of the rim to the ground.

I keep adding and subtracting washers to move the toe link around until I found the least amount of toe change. I believe I got it to nearly nothing (toe change).

Then I set toe to 1/16" in (each side) and rechecked it again. The rear never went "toe out" so I have been using this setting every since.

It's pretty important to prevent toe out under bump especially because the loaded side in a turn is in effect in max compression and with a fully loaded tire (bump). The other side (droop) isn't doing much. Especially if the car has a significant amount of roll in it at center corner max load. If the loaded side goes toe out at that point you will see snap oversteer that can be very hard to catch. If you can keep them both at a stable toe setting then that would be the goal. The SLC is pretty good in this respect.

I think I agree that "rear caster" may not be a recognized term because in theory, the rear doesn't have a steering function and the upright doesn't pivot but everybody knows what you are referring to so that's what I use to describe rear top to bottom upright pickup point angle. Or something like that.

This kind of chassis setup from ride height blocks including a similar front bump steer check should be one of the first things to do. It will help get the a arms and suspension parts on the car in the correct location early on in the build.
 
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Howard Jones

Supporter
You gotta have one of these. Wrestling with a gearbox is a pain in the ass, especially when you get a little...........experienced and don't have any help. NOT NOW BABY!!!!! Goes right on so easy you would call it fun!

I made it with some leftovers but something similar could be done without a welder by bolting things together or even making it out of wood. DO it now and make your life with a transaxle easy!!!!!
 

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Howard Jones

Supporter
Took the car back to COTA a week or so ago, so here's a report and a video. But first an update on the winter's work and changes.

First, I have been fighting an oil leak for quite a while and I was determined to fix it for good. This time I took the engine out of the car and changed every oil-related seal in it, including the rear main and timing cover seal and all the associated gaskets including the intake manifold gaskets. The oil leak is gone. Must have been the rear main seal, because all the other ones were going on the third time.

The engine builder asked me to enlarge the breathers hoses on the valve covers so I did, from AN8 to AN12. One on each cover. I also shortened up the rear anti-roll bar push rods so that the arms are being driven at near-perfect 90 degrees when the car is neutrally loaded. I also found the looseness in the shifter and corrected that with a safety-wired screw.

The brake cooling issues that I worked on last year pointed out a need for more cooling so I improved the front rotor ducting, This seems to have worked quite well.

The car ran very well all day with the exception of the last session. The distributor cap failed due to excessive center button wear. The day was over so really no harm anyway.

I ran nearly the same setup as before, shocks, springs, ARB settings, and tire pressures. The day was mild with air temps in the 75 -85F range.

I am going to move up a group next time so I can get some less traffic. Here's the second session (of 5) video.


 
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Randy V

Admin
Lifetime Supporter
Awesome stuff there Howard!
MSD or someone needs to address that center button wear issue. I’ve seen it taking numerous cars out of contention..
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
Well, it just got added to the wear item list. Change it every winter is the solution. By the way, Summit makes a replacement part that is nearly exactly the same piece for about half the price. I'll take some pictures of both parts and show ya when I get out to the shop.

Also on the to-do list is a redesign of the throttle cable routing and carb linkage in an effort to keep the cable out of the hot zones near the exhaust system.
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
So here are the pictures I promised of the MSD cap and rotor and the Summit replacement part. I'll also post Summit parts info for both below.

So I think that Summit gets the same part from whoever makes them for MSD and leaves off the MSD logos. As far as the quality goes, we'll see. However, I consider this a high-frequency replaceable part. My SLC has gone thru two caps in 2800 track miles over about 4 years. To avoid failures at events, IMHO, these parts need to changed every 1500 miles or at the 50-66% life mark. My season is typically comprised of 6, 2day, events with 12 sessions of about 25 miles per session each weekend. So if the Summit part has the same life span as the MSD part then more or less every 4th track weekend should prevent issues.

While I was at it, I decided to inspect the fuel filter. I did find some aluminum particles that I believe are from the original assembly of the car. This goes to prove no matter how much you clean the fuel system it is really never free of debris until a few hundred gallons of fuel have been pumped through it so as to filter out all the tiny little specs of swarf. I will add this filter to the annual maintenance cycle. The last couple of pictures are of the removable fuel pump assembly and the aforementioned filter.


 

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