Syria

[Jeff Young]

Some very good points made here... I'm actually PROUD of the Paddock right now!

So Jeff, I think we are on the same wavelength regarding Vietnam - but I did not want to stray too far off the topic of Syria. My point was to draw a potential parallel to what may well happen in Syria which happened in Vietnam. Where was our ally France in 1955? Where were we and how the phuq did we get there? I spent some of the most miserable days of my life there, fighting a war that was not a war. Fighting along side of people who thought that the very reason their families were being killed off was because we (USA) were there...
Wnners of the week were judged by land held and body counts. It was miserable and I, for one, wish that we would let people fight their own battles with weapons of their own construction.

Jack, thanks.

Randy, absolutely we agree on the basic idea that we were driven by the wrong motivation in going there, and the wrong goals when we got there, trying to impose a government on the South Vietnamese that for the most part they did not want.

Just to clarify, the French realized this. They fought the First Indochina War from 46-54, realized it was unwinnable and got out, to deal with bigger problems in their backyard in Algeria. After 54, if we had simply recognized Ho to be the nationalist he was, and let him and the country have the elections they wanted, we would have been done with it.

Instead, we painted Ho as a communist and acted like he was the second coming of Stalin. Ho's no hero, but he wasn't Stalin either.

I remain very afraid that if we look at the Islamic world the same way, meaning "Muslim bad, non-Muslim good" like we did with communism, we will make the same mistakes we did in the Cold War in choosing who to support, and who not to support.

 

[Bob Fechter]

I wonder if these chemical weapons were part of the numerous truck convoys leaving Iraq bound for Syria prior to our invasion of Iraq?

We know Iraq used chemicals on the Kurds, therefore we know they had them. We also know that the months it took to declare war because of the left stalling at every opportunity gave the Iraqis more than enough time to truck them out. We know WMD was out of the country by the time we finally started, and there were a lot of truck movements to Syria during that time.

 

[Bob Fechter]

p.s. we won the Cold War. The worldwide friends of the Soviet Union did their best to stop us, but we won the Cold War.

 

[Jim Craik]

p.s. we won the Cold War. The worldwide friends of the Soviet Union did their best to stop us, but we won the Cold War.

Ah yes, our war on Communisum................

There are only four strict Communist Countries left:

North Korea
Viet Nam
Laos
Cuba

What do those four countries have in common?

We sent troops to fight and die, to stop them from being Communist!

Is it possable that had we kept out boys home and alive, their form of Communisum might have died on its own, like it did everywhere else?

 

[Bob Fechter]

Well, yes, kennedy had a lot to answer for, and that's why I pray that B.O. never becomes a martyr.

And, yes, I much prefer President Reagan's approach of scaring the shit out of the soviets, something he was always being advised not to do by,,,,, wait for it,,,,,, The State Department and its crew of professional diplomats leaning heavily to the Left.

 

[Danimal W]

Mr. Craik,

Are you having any tech issues? Your post didn't have a chart/graph embedded in it?

 

[Keith]

There are only four strict Communist Countries left:

North Korea
Viet Nam
Laos
Cuba

Vietnam - are you really serious?

Dear me...... :worried:

 

[Jim Craik]

COMMUNIST COUNTRIES

Cuba
Source: CIA World Factbook, 2007
A revolution in 1959 led to the taking over of the Cuban government by Fidel Castro. By 1961, Cuba became a fully communist country and developed close ties to the Soviet Union.

Laos

Source: CIA World Factbook, 2007
Laos, officially the Lao People's Democratic Republic, became a communist country in 1975 following a revolution that was supported by Vietnam and the Soviet Union.

North Korea

Source: CIA World Factbook, 2007
Korea, which was captured by Japan in World War II, was divided following the war into a Soviet north and American south. Despite being led by the USSR beginning in 1945, North Korea did not become a communist country until 1948.

Vietnam

Source: CIA World Factbook, 2007
Vietnam was partitioned at a 1954 conference that followed the First Indochina War. While the partition was supposed to be temporary, North Vietnam became communist and supported by the Soviet Union while South Vietnam was democratic and supported by the United States. Following two decades of war, the two parts of Vietnam were unified and in 1976, Vietnam as a unified country became a communist country.

 

[Bob Fechter]

"I'm gonna raise my freak flag high,,,,,,high!"

 

[Jim Craik]

Mr Fechter,

You said that "we won the cold war".

Did we defeat Viet Nam?

Did we defeat North Korea?

Did we defeat Laos?

Did we defeat Cuba?

Did we defeat the USSR?

Did we defeat China?

Or did Communisum collapse on its own as it is a very in-efficient system that has never worked.

Is it just possible that had we left them alone, that Communisum would have collapsed on its own, much earlier with much fewer wasted lives and less wasted wealth?

 

[Bob Fechter]

There is no black or white, only shades of gray.

 

[Keith]

Your premise stated that the strict communist countries remaining were:

Cuba

Laos

Vietnam

North Korea

I have recently had friends that returned from a 3 month vacation in Vietnam. In fact I have an invitation to a stag party that was held in Vietnam in January of this year. Couldn't go for health reasons.

Other friends have recently returned from Laos & Cambodia and in fact, this area of the world gets hundreds and thousands of visitors from the UK and Europe every year and is one of the most favourite gap year destinations on the calendar.

I guy I met last week who had just returned from opening a night-club in Havana. Next week, he is back out there and marrying a lovely Cuban lady who's father is a big wig in the military.

No-body ever came back from North Korea.

Lets have some real world info please - less cut 'n paste.

Communism collapsed because it could not sustain the budgets for the military presence that was required to confront the West. Having said that, the Cold War thing was a bit of a sham driven by hawks. There is nothing whatever wrong with communism as a system and technically is purer than capitalism. The downside is you would have to drive a state owned GT40 in grey primer with cardboard wings.

 

[Jim Craik]

Are you saying that because a Country has Night-Clubs, Stag Parties and caters to tourists it can't be Communist?

 

[Keith]

You wrote STRICT

Please read replies properly.

 

[Larry L.]

Communism collapsed because it could not sustain the budgets for the military presence that was required to confront the West.

That was ONE of the reasons. But, the 'biggie' was (and a-l-w-a-y-s has been/will be) that true communism affords/provides no incentive for anyone to do anything beyond what they have to do productivity-wise because they'd just see the govt REDISTRIBUTE the extra fruit of their labors to others. Why bust ones buns only to see someone else enjoy the extra fruit???

 

[Bob Fechter]

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to all the liberals here for President Ronald Reagan's dismantling of the soviet union. And, yes, we're all aware that karl marx was right and communism just hasn't had a fair chance yet.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I thought the Soviet Union collapsed because they couldn't keep up with the West on military spending. Am I wrong on this?

 

[Jim Craik]

Jimbo,

Yes, their economy was never strong, much of what they did was in an effort to appear both strong and prosperous, done with smoke and mirrors.

Although much of their military was poorly built, and poorly maintained, it was still way beyond what was needed for Mutually Assured Destruction.

Gorbachov rightly said an economy that could no longer keep bread in the stores, had no business engaging in a very expensive, high tech arms race. A race with an economy that could and was outspending the rest of the world combined.

Although the Soviets were spending a very high % of their GDP on the miltiary, it was not just the arms race that caused the collapse, by the early 1980s it was apparent to most that Communist style economies were not expanding and were unable to care for the people, much less a huge military.

But even Communist countries without huge Military spending were failing, and virtually all but a few collapsed or changed their economic structure.

 

[Jim Craik]

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to all the liberals here for President Ronald Reagan's dismantling of the soviet union. And, yes, we're all aware that karl marx was right and communism just hasn't had a fair chance yet.

While you are apologizing to liberals, you might want to apologize to everyone else for posting one more un-truth!

Ronald Reagan left office Jan 1989

The Soviet Union remained un-dismantled until Dec 1991 almost three years later!

 

[Jack]

And I thought this thread was about Syria.....