(QUOTE: I have found that these debates go along just like this one, until you post actual data.
There is a certain rhythm to these debates, isn't there? I am compelled to point out that neither you nor Jeff have actually posted any "actual data," unless you want to count Jeff's statement that
The fact remains that per capita health care costs in single payer systems range from 30 to 50% LESS than what we pay here.
Are these the actual facts you speak of? I'd like to see some actual tech to back them up. Of course, Jeff has chosen to omit any comparison of tax rates or government expenditures as a percent of GDP from his 30-50% discount factoid, let alone any sort of meaningful quantitative or qualitative evaluation of the quality of health care offered there versus here. Hint: people from other countries come to the US for health care paying from their own wallet, not the other way around.
The only "actual data" that has been posted was Veek's opening shot, which has been largely ignored and completely derailed in subsequent posts. So please allow me to bring some "actual facts" to this sorry-ass excuse for a discussion that's going on in here.
Here's what the US budget deficit/surplus looks like from 1980 (Reagan) to present (Obama). My
source here is about a year old, but he used figures from the Congressional Budget Office. Hopefully we can all agree that the numbers are accurate.
Look at the trainwreck that has happened since the US Congress went under Democrat control in 1996, and especially since Obama has been in office. I'm sure someone will point out that things started to get ugly under Bush 43 (they did...he was the second most fiscally irresponsible president in US history), that the surpluses happened under Clinton (during the cold-war peace dividend / dotcom bubble after he cut a deal with House Republicans to reform welfare), and that US government spending grew tremendously during the Reagan years (Reagan was a conservative, but not necessarily a fiscal one but his failure to reign in the federal government was overshadowed by the economic growth that happened on his watch).
Jim, how can you honestly claim that liberals fix these fiscal problems that Emily will face as she gets older when the deficit ballooned, and remains out of control, under the most liberal executive and legislative branches of government that this country has ever seen? Do you really believe your own words? This isn't necessarily a democrat vs republican thing, or even a liberal vs conservative thing, we find ourselves in the kind of situation where every person who loves this country should want to kick every single elected official out of Washington and put some people in there who actually care about the future of their country.