Yah, i was just busting your balls man. To each there own and that was just my view. There are a lot of strong motor choices out there that give good or decent milage if thats what you need. Just cant bring myself to place anything other than a V8 in such a car. This is mostly HP/sound opinion. I know the rotors and 6'rs can make the power but the engine noise just isnt the same and wont complete the experiance for me.
Yet another engine suitability thread
- Thread starter Cypherd
- Start date
No offense taken. I've always been a guy that likes things a little different (SLR, BMW HP2 motorcycle, Jeep w/ 60s front and rear, etc). I was listening to some YouTube videos of the 3.5L last night.
Speaking of "different"... Fran, what diesel engine were you winking about???
I totally agree with the engine sound. The Panoz powered #18 car was pure sex. Even the LS376 SLC that was at SEMA last year was a thing of beauty. Nothing like an American small block V8 with a cam (and Sebring exhaust). Mmmmmmm....
I gotta go take care of some business. Be right ba.......
There are some V6's I could be convinced to use but only if they were actually smaller and lighter than an LS3.
and the VR38DETT?
The vr would be sweet. But I would hate to wire one of them up. Any way this is from wikipedia. This 3.8L twin-turbo DOHC V6 engine is currently only used in the Nissan GT-Rhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VR_engine#cite_note-0. Fully dressed with the first set of catalytic converters, turbos, turbo outlet pipes, the motor weighs 608 lb (276 kg. If that is true that is a heavy v-6.
Yeah, I think you are correct, for some reason the VR is pretty damn heavy, but then again, the cats are integrated into the manifold (not sure how much that adds to it). I am not sure what other things that have added to increase the weight.
I am betting you can build a VH37DETT that wouldn't weigh in that much. You figure the VH37DE is probably not that much heavier than a VQ35. The deck is a little taller (I think like 7mm or somewhere around there), and a bit more stroke, so a little heavier crank. But they also did a lot to lighten it as well. It also has variable valve timing/lift on the intake and cam phasing on the exhaust (or maybe its the other way around, I'll have to research that one)
If you went with some BW EFR's, you could save some weight too. Those turbo are damn light, the 6758's are coming in at around 14lbs a piece or less. This is because the have titanium turbines that weight half that of a standard turbine, and stainless steel exhaust housing that is casted quite thin.
Only reason I know a bit about the VQ/VH is because I have a 240sx with an SR20det, and was looking at the weight penatly of going with a V6. It wound up being only about 40lbs more, and that's putting on a set of twins.
You can Bore/Stroke the VQ up to about 4.2Liters with sleeves (100mm bore)
I am betting you can build a VH37DETT that wouldn't weigh in that much. You figure the VH37DE is probably not that much heavier than a VQ35. The deck is a little taller (I think like 7mm or somewhere around there), and a bit more stroke, so a little heavier crank. But they also did a lot to lighten it as well. It also has variable valve timing/lift on the intake and cam phasing on the exhaust (or maybe its the other way around, I'll have to research that one)
If you went with some BW EFR's, you could save some weight too. Those turbo are damn light, the 6758's are coming in at around 14lbs a piece or less. This is because the have titanium turbines that weight half that of a standard turbine, and stainless steel exhaust housing that is casted quite thin.
Only reason I know a bit about the VQ/VH is because I have a 240sx with an SR20det, and was looking at the weight penatly of going with a V6. It wound up being only about 40lbs more, and that's putting on a set of twins.
You can Bore/Stroke the VQ up to about 4.2Liters with sleeves (100mm bore)
Roger Reid
Supporter
Lotus has done a lot of work choosing a V6 for their new Evora. Here are a couple of links describing the motor/trans.
Lotus Evora GTE is a refined racer for the road
Lotus Evora | Racecar Engineering | Race car technology explained
Lotus Evora GTE is a refined racer for the road
Lotus Evora | Racecar Engineering | Race car technology explained
Crazy to think the heart of that animal is found in most family driveways... albeit in a much less high-strung form.
I know this is a first post that many people will roll their eyes at.......but what about a Ferrari V8 (360/430) or a RWD configuration Audi V10?
My father and I are looking for a project we can spend a couple years of quality time on once I transfer back to the US, and neither of us are particularly fans of the sound of American V8's. With a car as exotic looking as the SL-C we are looking into used exotic engines. I know we can make more power for less money with a LS7 but I think 450-500hp is all we have the skill to handle anyways.
Any other creative options out there to get that high revving exotic sound and 400+ HP?
Thanks!
My father and I are looking for a project we can spend a couple years of quality time on once I transfer back to the US, and neither of us are particularly fans of the sound of American V8's. With a car as exotic looking as the SL-C we are looking into used exotic engines. I know we can make more power for less money with a LS7 but I think 450-500hp is all we have the skill to handle anyways.
Any other creative options out there to get that high revving exotic sound and 400+ HP?
Thanks!
I would say the TVR V8. Its 4.5L 450hp (I think) and weighs LESS than 300lbs, that's a pretty insane combination. Only prob is,, I never see them for sale, and I bet they are hard to service (ie EXPENSIVE). but if you could drop +100lbs (more like 150) from the SLC I think it might be worth it.
found a quote
"The Speed Eight engine has a high specific output for a normally aspirated engine with 83.3 bhp/L for the 4.2L, 93.3 bhp/L for the 4.5L, and 97.7 bhp/L for the Red Rose-specification 4.5L engine. Another notable aspect is the weight of the engine, which is 267 lb (121 kg) dry"
found a quote
"The Speed Eight engine has a high specific output for a normally aspirated engine with 83.3 bhp/L for the 4.2L, 93.3 bhp/L for the 4.5L, and 97.7 bhp/L for the Red Rose-specification 4.5L engine. Another notable aspect is the weight of the engine, which is 267 lb (121 kg) dry"
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Hear you loud an clear on the sound piece. I feel the same way and decided to do a 2004 Porsche GT3 (996) engine and transmission.
The transmission is a G96/96 which is geared for high-revving naturally aspirated engines.
The engine is a 3.6L 6-cylinder and did 381 hp stock. It's the same basic block that was used in the 997 which pushed 400+ hp, so with the aftermarket ECU, my 996 should easily get there. My favorite part is the high revving though. Max power is around 7400 RPM and redline is around 8500 RPM.
If you want more power, there are also 3.9L kits for the engine from places like Sharkwerks, getting you in excess of 500 hp naturally aspirated. I'm passing on that for now because I want to get the car on the road first and then take on upgrades as I see fit from experience driving the car.
One slight downside of the Porsche engine is that you have to do custom ECUs, like a Motec, ViPEC or Pectel. The lower end ones work too but if you're going to get a bunch of custom wiring done, you might as well spend an extra couple grand a get a really awesome ECU that would sustain any engine upgrade easily. I'm also taking this as an opportunity to be a bit of data / electronics nerd with the car.
One word of caution is also to stay away from any Direction Injection (GDI, DFI, etc) engine because the aftermarket electronics haven't caught up yet to a price point that's manageable. Based on my many conversations with various suppliers and race car electronics shops all over the world, I think it'll take 1-2 years until some more off-the-shelf DI solutions will be available from the big ECU makers instead of the current highly custom jobs.
Note that my kit hasn't been built yet, though the engine and transmission are with Fran ready to go. I therefore can't speak to experience with this setup other than research and sourcing it. Feel free to PM me if you want to know more about the Porsche engine and transmission stuff.
So I've been doing a little research on 500+ hp engine option with keeping a budget in mind and I came across something interesting. This may be common knowledge or old news but just in the off chance I wanted to share.
The base of the motor is the LS based 6.0L LQ9 engine out of an Escalade, Silverado SS and some others. This engine can be found used for around 1K with decently low miles. Next up you swap out for L92 heads from 6.2L chevy trucks (1K new) which are LS7 based and flow nearly as good @ 330cfm.
Now you can add on the L76 intake ($500) which comes complete with throttle body, rails and injectors and mild cam of choice ($500).
Looking at several different builds/articles it adds up to well over 500hp and all cost you around 3-4K if you find good deals and do your own work.
The Lq9 is great for NA applications but for the boost lovers who have to have even more the LQ4 is the same 6.0L engine with lower compression allowing for good boost.
Maybe this will help someone looking for a cheaper option for high HP. :thumbsup:
The base of the motor is the LS based 6.0L LQ9 engine out of an Escalade, Silverado SS and some others. This engine can be found used for around 1K with decently low miles. Next up you swap out for L92 heads from 6.2L chevy trucks (1K new) which are LS7 based and flow nearly as good @ 330cfm.
Now you can add on the L76 intake ($500) which comes complete with throttle body, rails and injectors and mild cam of choice ($500).
Looking at several different builds/articles it adds up to well over 500hp and all cost you around 3-4K if you find good deals and do your own work.
The Lq9 is great for NA applications but for the boost lovers who have to have even more the LQ4 is the same 6.0L engine with lower compression allowing for good boost.
Maybe this will help someone looking for a cheaper option for high HP. :thumbsup:
This is the engine I am looking at using. I only plan on building the top end: fast manifold, heads, light cam, etc.
However, Ive seen a couple Audi 4.2 V8s bolted directly to Porsche Boxster transmissions (986 5 speed and 987 6 speed). I think that would be pretty cool. The cross plain crank in the 4.2 makes it sound great. Power isn't that high (290-340, depending on the year). The only issue with that engine (other than it not having at least 1000 horsepower... Alex) is that it is incredibly wide. I'm not sure about the wiring either.
Make your V8 headers so they end up all going into one muffler with a single outlet & it will sound more than exotic enough, you can do this simply by making each bank go in as a group of four, no need to do the 180° crossover thing.... changes it from a rumble to a HOWL!
This (180 degree headers) is something that I have been considering. The problem I see is being able to fit the 180 degree setup in the engine bay. I also wonder if it is possible to have a single outlet in the SLC...from the pictures I have seen, I'm not so sure.
When I buy and build an SLC, I want it to sound different than the typical V8 and be more "exotic" sounding. For that reason, I have also considered the rotary engine as well.
Okay, gang: here is another candidate: the Bentley twin-turbo W-12!
Think it cannot fit? Take a look at the photo and the article from Road & Track magazine:
AHEAD of the front wheels. If we put it into the engine compartment of the SLC, it would be ahead of the REAR wheels.
The article says, " . . . though it has the highest cylinder count, the W12 is actually shorter in length than the base V8—which also fits in that little space."
SHORTER, thus, easier to fit, than the base V8.
Here is a cutaway photograph to show us how they do it:
Tempting, no?
Les
Think it cannot fit? Take a look at the photo and the article from Road & Track magazine:
This is how Bentley packs a W12 into the Continental
AHEAD of the front wheels. If we put it into the engine compartment of the SLC, it would be ahead of the REAR wheels.
The article says, " . . . though it has the highest cylinder count, the W12 is actually shorter in length than the base V8—which also fits in that little space."
SHORTER, thus, easier to fit, than the base V8.
Here is a cutaway photograph to show us how they do it:
Tempting, no?
Les
I've always thought the W12 would be a great candidate for the SLC, they can sound great too!
But, and I honestly have done no "homework", the auto journalist always quote the V8 TT audi engine'd lower models to be a #100 lighter on nose.
Guess it just depends on what your trying to build.
Sound: Maserati probably cheapest Ferrari sound/hp
Power: GT500 engine or LSX
Unique and sound: Yes, I like the 6GT3
Unique and power: 996TT
Weight: Rotary
Weight/durability: Al V6 under forced induction
mpg and cruiser: turbo diesel is interesting
All engines obviously have trade offs just like suspensions and therefore one platform doesn't dominate the production world or racing scene. The target keeps moving and evolving.
BUT, as has been said on here so many times. There is a sweet spot of power.....something up until recently Ferrari had prescribed to, but now also violates. Anything that will fit and fit your "requirements" is a great engine, just double check your actual goals. I want something easier to maintenance in my small town than my Pcar or a Fcar. Doesn't count them short on any level, but that is a unique criteria for my engine choice. If I was in a "big" city, I'd certainly think about a Maserati engine for Fcar sound.
No one ever talks of the Jaguar engine. It's light and though not super car tough, post 2001, is pretty dependable, light weight and 500+ easily attainable.....can't get much cheaper.
Guess it just depends on what your trying to build.
Sound: Maserati probably cheapest Ferrari sound/hp
Power: GT500 engine or LSX
Unique and sound: Yes, I like the 6GT3
Unique and power: 996TT
Weight: Rotary
Weight/durability: Al V6 under forced induction
mpg and cruiser: turbo diesel is interesting
All engines obviously have trade offs just like suspensions and therefore one platform doesn't dominate the production world or racing scene. The target keeps moving and evolving.
BUT, as has been said on here so many times. There is a sweet spot of power.....something up until recently Ferrari had prescribed to, but now also violates. Anything that will fit and fit your "requirements" is a great engine, just double check your actual goals. I want something easier to maintenance in my small town than my Pcar or a Fcar. Doesn't count them short on any level, but that is a unique criteria for my engine choice. If I was in a "big" city, I'd certainly think about a Maserati engine for Fcar sound.
No one ever talks of the Jaguar engine. It's light and though not super car tough, post 2001, is pretty dependable, light weight and 500+ easily attainable.....can't get much cheaper.
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