Young Gun slingers kill an Aussie

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Chris Coote

Unfortunately Australia loses a unique sportsman today who was unarmed,minding his own business, as we do here mostly in OZ, and gets fatally shot because 15,16 & 17 year old yanks can own guns and an Aussie an easy target."Lets go shoot an OZZIE".God bless America.
Shooting Aussies is protecting your freedom under your "right to bear arms" and protect your borders ??.
I am pissed off.Go shoot yourselves.Care factor on that is "ZERO".
We get run down and killed by drunk yank drivers whilst holidaying in Hollywood CA and now shot and killed for minding your own business whilst trying to make a career in the good ol USA.
Why would you ever go there ???
 
J

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
We have WAY too many guns up here, and far too little control of them. As a society, we have chosen to value the individual's right to possess and use guns a great deal more than we value the safety of the general population. The sad consequences of this are twofold: first, lots of tragically dead people including increasing numbers of children, and second, a mistaken idea that the more guns are around, the safer everyone will be. This clearly isn't the case.

The most tragic and mistaken idea of this entire ridiculous business is the idea that guns should only be given to people who can establish that they are mentally healthy and won't be a danger to anyone. The problem with this idiotic line of a priori reasoning is that quite a few people appear mentally healthy until they decide to mow down a few folks that day.

We were a nation of people that mostly stayed where we were born, etc, until Henry Ford I made it possible for nearly everyone to own a car. We then became a nation of travelers and folks who moved around a great deal. If everyone has a car, they will use it; why not? Similarly, if the nation is awash in guns (and our nation most emphatically IS awash in firearms of all kinds) people will use them. And, more often than anyone would like, we will use them on each other.

We seem to have tacitly (or not so tacitly) accepted the idea that the price of individual gun ownership for all is that a lot of people are going to get killed by guns. Much of that acceptance has been engineered by the astute and adept pro-gun lobby, the NRA. Whether you agree with them or not (and I do not) their successful efforts to head every single effort at gun control off at the pass is responsible for the current sorry state of affairs in this country. And it isn't going to change in my lifetime, I firmly believe. I just hope I am not one of the ones whose lifetime is cut short by it.
 
R

roaldin

When a madman goes on a killing spree in your local area and people you know are the victims, it has a way of making you think. Don't ask me how I know.
Enough to say, I had a gun at the time that lunatic murdered dozens of people, and I happily handed it in to be destroyed knowing that a few more future madmen doing the same might lose them the opportunity to do the same thing.

Am I against guns? Not totally, but for the most part yes. As a farm owner I will soon have another gun but it will be all it needs to be for occasional pest reduction and nothing more. Certainly not some semi auto designed for that greatest proof of human lack of intelligence or wisdom - warfare.


Tim.
 
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Jim Craik

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Chris,

I'm so sorry that this happened, but unfortunatly this is just the way it is here in the US.

On an average day in the US, 289 people are shot and 86 of them die.

Between 2000 and 2010, 335,609 people died from guns.

Murder in the US

Guns...........................72.5%
Knives.........................13.3
Other..........................14.2

In 2010 ***82*** childeren under 5 years old died from firearms. In that same year 58 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty.

Nearly three times more kids were injured by firearms than US soldiers injured in action in Afganistan.

Childeren injured by guns, 2010.............15,576
US soldiers wounded in action 2010.........5,247
 
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L

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
roaldin said:
... As a farm owner I will soon have another gun...
Click to expand...

Then, net, net, net...wouldn't you be right back where you were before you turned in your original gun to be destroyed, sir? That is, you'll again have a gun in your house...a gun some crook can steal and do with whatever he pleases (just like the scumbags involved in the subject drive by/murder, I'd wager). The only diff is you would then be in violation of your own new-found stance re: guns as well.

'Just curious; when you declare your new gun will only be used, "for occasional pest reduction and nothing more"...how do you really know that? IOW, what if your new gun is stolen?
 
A

craig

Stories like this make me sick that these things happen in my country almost daily....also this thread title has that lets be soft on these pieces of crap and lets blame the gun ring to it...
Listen it's already been reported that these worthless punks were (by their own statement) "going on a killing spree".
So please dont hide this tragedy behind the picture of a gun..
Would it matter if they ran down this poor man with their car, jumped out and butchered him to death with a hatchet...
No the problem stems from our soft on crime, soft on the criminal, social engineered society that we have created for ourselves.
 
L

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
RF054 said:
We get run down and killed by drunk yank drivers whilst holidaying in Hollywood CA and now shot and killed for minding your own business whilst trying to make a career in the good ol USA.
Why would you ever go there ???
Click to expand...


Recent random mass shootings in Australia - smh.com.au



Additionally; how many innocent Ozlanders are killed by fellow Ozlander drunk drivers yearly?

So maybe it's equally valid to ask: Why do you choose to live there?


Regardless of all that, Chris Lane's death is nothing short of sickening. 'Doesn't matter where it happened.
 
M

Mark

Without wishing to sound uncaring (just a little riled at the tit-for-tat posts that are popping up here), isn't there some sort of economy of scale calculation, that must be applied, regarding the various population sizes between countries, before anyone simply states one country is worse than any other for gun crimes, or any sort of Homicide for that matter?

Lets face it, most Americans don't kill people, neither do most Australians, Europeans, or British (see what I just did their Keith?), etc.
 
Jim Craik

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Of course Mark,

Population size does make a differance.

Here are the yearly number of Gun deaths in each Country per 100,000 of population (2010):

Australia........................0.13
New Zeland....................0.26
UK................................0.04
Canada..........................0.5
Japan............................0.00

USA..............................3.60


The USA rate of gun deaths per 100,000 of population is over ******27*******times higher than in Australia, who banned most gun ownership!

The rate of USA gun deaths per 100,000 of population is over ******90*******times higher than in the UK, who have a very limited number of guns.


So after adjusting for the difference in population size, the net answer is:

For every person who dies in the UK from a gun, 90+ die in the USA!
 
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L

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Mark Pickford said:
Lets face it, most Americans don't kill people, neither do most Australians, Europeans, or British (see what I just did their Keith?), etc.
Click to expand...


Correction: The VAST majority of people anywhere don't kill people.

(Speaking strictly for myself, I have killed people...but that occurred in a war zone. 'Sure pray that little detail will make a difference with The Father one day...)
 
J

Joey Dean

Well, now I know.

I live in Oklahoma and have a good friend who is a police officer in Duncan. He was having a hard time Sunday and now I see why.

Duncan is a smaller and pretty close knit community. This makes the event even harder to understand. I will not enter into the gun debate, but I agree that regardless of the cause it is a tragic event.

For the record though, Chris. As a firearm owner I have never had the desire to shoot an Aussie as you so eloquently stated in your opening post.
 
K

Keith

Moderator
Yes Mark I did see - you're good mate.

Ha. What a subject. And predictably the graphs and the counter strikes are played out here in the dead zone.

I was not going to comment on this but nothing is going to improve unless we all accept that NO ONE DESERVES TO DIE A USELESS DEATH WHILST THAT YOUNG OR THAT INNOCENT.

IT matters not if they were talented or just a dickhead. All human life is sacrosanct.

To others we are easy prey. I would like to refocus your attention to the Great Nelson Mandela Scandal.

The man was worshiped, respected, fought for and fought over. In his name, the South African regime is now killing innocent civilians who were promised a better deal by the ANC and this is happening seamlessly connected to the old Apartheid regime.

It's one thing having fucked up citizens firing on other, innocent citizens, but it's quite another witnessing State sponsored murder of their OWN citizens especially if it's done in the name of THEIR OWN freedom which they shed THEIR OWN blood to bring to power.

The murder and mayhem in our respective countries/societies is relative. Which level of heinousness do you want to deal with first?

Who is the victim MORE deserving of our grief? Who shall we cry more tears for? Who LEAST deserves to die? Is it a TALENTED AND MUCH LOVED AUSSIE? Or a skinny scared malnourished kid that nobody ever heard of in Africa.

What shall we do?

Believe me, I have tears for them all, but they would be utterly & uselessly shed unless I got off my fat ass and did something to make a difference.

AND that's the challenge.

BTW Posting graphs of murder never solved a crime.
 
Jim Craik

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
BTW Posting graphs of murder never solved a crime.
Click to expand...
Posted by Keith

Keith,

First off, I did not post a "graph" I posted statistics.
Second, we are not trying to solve a crime, we are trying to prevent deaths.

Posting statistics does help to prevent deaths.

In 1980 Mothers aginst drunk driving looked into the actual numbers of deaths resulting from drunk driving and were appalled.

They posted those statistics, over and over, finally over time people realized the scope of the problem and new stronger laws, zero tollerance and education has reduced the number of drunk driving deaths significantly.

As for statistics saving lives......................

I'd be willing to bet that when Mark made his #15 post he had no idea that after adjusting for population differances that for every person in the UK killed by a gun that over 90 people in the US die from guns.
 
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