Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
$2.5K for openers on a 10 day listing. Located in CA (LA area)
Zf 5ds-25-2
- Thread starter llarsen
- Start date
$2.5K for openers on a 10 day listing. Located in CA (LA area)
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Isn't this in the "other" conformation, like a Pantera transaxle? It would have to be flipped for use in a GT40.
Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
Jimbo,
Right you are, but then again, most are.
Lynn
Right you are, but then again, most are.
Lynn
This appears to be what Lloyd refers to as a "Type 1 1/2" gearbox, built during the transition from the -1 to the -2. Note that it has a dipstick on the left side, just ahead of the shifter box; it would also have a fill plug on the top near the back. This fill plug is actually the leftover drain plug from when the gearbox was inverted.
This gearbox would probably be a nice candidate for GT40 use, because it may very well have many of the internal oiling features that the later -2 gearboxes didn't, since at least some of the pieces were originally intended for inverted operation.
That dipstick is a nice feature; only the very earliest Panteras have it. Once -2 production ramped up fully, the fill/drain plug on the top was dispensed with, and the dipstick mechanism was replaced with a fill plug.
This gearbox would probably be a nice candidate for GT40 use, because it may very well have many of the internal oiling features that the later -2 gearboxes didn't, since at least some of the pieces were originally intended for inverted operation.
That dipstick is a nice feature; only the very earliest Panteras have it. Once -2 production ramped up fully, the fill/drain plug on the top was dispensed with, and the dipstick mechanism was replaced with a fill plug.
Mike,
that is very good info.....thanks
that is very good info.....thanks
VintageVenom said:
Okay. See the shifter box? See the shaft coming out, forward, from the shifter box. Now look straight down from there. See that thing that looks like the head of a cotter pin? It's sticking up from an L-shaped pipe that is stuck into the side of the case?
That cotter pin thing is a dipstick that is about two inches long, total.
The drain plug/fill plug isn't visible; I believe it is just out of view, on the top of the case at the rear, to the right of the photo.
I have seen quite a few "Dash 1 1/2" gearboxes that had the ID tag mounted on the case on the right side, at the top, sort of opposite from and forward of the shifter box which is on the left side.
coupe3w said:
If not flipped the motor will sit 5 or 6 inches too high. This can cause clearance problems with intake systems and also it will handle like a pig.
Cheers
coupe3w said:
The real question in my mind is, why did De Tomaso flip the gearbox upside down to install it in the Pantera in the first place? Seems to me it was working just fine in its original configuration, and...wait, I know the answer.
In the original configuration, the input shaft runs underneath the pinion gear and output flanges. This forces the engine to run extremely low (which is a 'feature' in a race car). De Tomaso learned the hard way with the Mangusta that when the gearbox is run in that orientation on a road car, the engine and bottom of the bellhousing are VERY low, and most Mangustas bottomed out fairly easily. After a rash of shattered bellhousings, most owners fabricated skid plates.
The GT40 requires the use of a very shallow oil pan, considerably more shallow than a stock Ford oil pan. The Pantera was designed from the outset to use a bone-stock top-of-the-range Mustang engine, with a stock oil pan. The engine had to sit higher in the car, and thus the gearbox was flipped so the input shaft would line up with the pilot bushing, yet the driveshafts would have a reasonable angle as they reached out to the rear hubs.
Do GT40s have a bellhousing bottoming problem the way the Mangusta does?
Only over "speed bumps" (sleeping policemen) at high rates of speed! Hard to bottom a '40 without a raised area being involved. The spring rates tend to keep 'em off the bump stops.
Rick
Rick
Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
Mike,
Of all the times my car's bottom has ever hit anything it has virtually always been the bottom outside edges of the nose. This has always been coming into a sloped driveway, which I do at an angle. Only time anything near the rear scrubbed was just ahead of the rear wheels was as I crabbed into a fairly steep driveway that then flattened out sharply. I've actually been lucky with speed bumps, but there are some around town that I will not go over. Even at this, everything is inside or flush with the bottom of the frame, so that the only thing that has ever touched was fiberglass or chassis rails.
To hit the oil pan or the bell housing, something would have to be flipped up into them.
Lynn
Of all the times my car's bottom has ever hit anything it has virtually always been the bottom outside edges of the nose. This has always been coming into a sloped driveway, which I do at an angle. Only time anything near the rear scrubbed was just ahead of the rear wheels was as I crabbed into a fairly steep driveway that then flattened out sharply. I've actually been lucky with speed bumps, but there are some around town that I will not go over. Even at this, everything is inside or flush with the bottom of the frame, so that the only thing that has ever touched was fiberglass or chassis rails.
To hit the oil pan or the bell housing, something would have to be flipped up into them.
Lynn
Interesting. THis ZF auction didn't even get a single bid. What do you think this is actually worth?
Steve Briscoe
Lifetime Supporter
Mark Worthington said:
This may have been the one where the owner had a quiet 5K reserve and it was sold before bidding began. If it isn't there was one like that in the last seven days. If it was 5K, that's okay. Based on experience, many, many of the older ones need rebuilding and if it involves synchros and gears, the repair will be pricey.
I think with the current supply and demand issues people will buy almost any ZF as a starting point....
I spoke with a guy yesterday that has two NOS ZF boxes..not RBT and they need to be flipped and lock wired...he wants 12,500 each prior to the rework...ouch
I spoke with a guy yesterday that has two NOS ZF boxes..not RBT and they need to be flipped and lock wired...he wants 12,500 each prior to the rework...ouch
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