ZF scam - Watch out

[domclark]

Unfortunaltey for me i saw this post a week late. I have been fucked over by this bitch gab muller! The name is real and its female. The bank account i have the details for is genuine. If any one can get me an address thru these details i'll reward handsomely!! Seems they are not just advertising a GT40 gearbox but it was a specialist bike engine i have fell for. And looking at some of the ads i bet lots of them are all bogus!! Aparently there are transfers from all over pouring into her account!!
Absolute scum of the earth!! Iam more than pissed!

DC.

 

[Martin]

I would think a call to the fraud department would be the best way forward.
Sorry to hear you got scammed. Horrible.

Martin

 

[domclark]

Its aparently in hand, and i dont know how people can get away with this, whether or not i see my money back i dont know. But the account is genuine. Anybody know how an address can be obtained from the bank details?

DC

 

[David Morton]

The bank sort code is the identity where the account is held - if in the UK.
It is three sets of two numbers such as 28:11:85. If this is so then the Fraud
section of the Police will be very interested in taking it from there. Sorry you missed all the discussion about 'Ness etc.
Dave

 

[David Sturch]

Gent's,
It's not the only scam going on. I recieved an e-mail froma Scott Logan in Newcastle on the Tyne,said that he had the rim I needed. No pictures. Gave me a phone number and an address. Wanted Western Union wire transfer.No mail money order. Quick to point out he had what I needed. I e-mailed JimmyMac to see if he would handle the transaction for me if legit. Forwarded this on to the seller and haven't heard back since. Did a google maps street view of the address and it's an empty building or a Hair Salon. I trust you guy's on this site more than somebody I don't know.
Dave

 

[domclark]

Yes i have the sort code its a leicestershire barclays. Account is genuine. Dont want to say too much as the piece of shite who ever she is maybe reading this. I will not let this lie.

 

[David Dawson]

Hi all

I've recently been scammed by this creep - Gab Muller, from Craig List, he was selling an esoteric bit of digital photography kit,

The coms from him seemed fine but brusque, I CHAPS'd the money (£930) so I think it will be eventually be recoverable, he gave the following details after I asked for assurances;

'David, my bank details are:
Gab Muller
47 Church Street
Inverness
Inverness-Shire IV1 1ES
Barclays Bank PLC
Sort Code:20-29-37
Acc number: 83262170
Before of all, please understand that i'm not here to make fraud ...if you cannot understand that do not send any money. But do not come with stupid requests because i'll be offended
Thanks!
Gab'

oh and he uses the e-address [email protected]
​

when I got suspicious I did a search on Barclay's site and found this was the wrong address for the only Inverness branch, also when I did a bank sort code search, the branch was Edgware Road London.

I'm hoping because of the inconsistencies in the banking info the transaction can be voided.

I'm reporting all I know to the Bank fraud departments, but will also send all I have to the police/CPS, so if anyone can contribute, please do, or communicate directly to me so I can compile - let's nail him!

I have other anecdotes....

This was my first posting here, so regards to all,
hopefully contribute on a more positive thread...

David
​

​

 

[Jim]

This guy has also been scamming a boat and engine on Craigslist, and other sites. He was using the same bank branch and using another address in Inverness, but it doesn't exist.

I alerted Barclays and my own bank in early December. If they had acted quickly the later scams might have been stopped.

I also alerted Trading standards and the Government's 'Consumer Direct' people. They were friendly but wouldn't act.

An internet seacrh reveals that the same guy has been scamming specialist radios. I passed the site details and the GT40 forum site details to the banks.

The banks promised to come back to me. They haven't. I am determined to hold them to account for inactivity on this matter and poor security checks.

Jim

 

[Keith]

I don't think it is as simple as that. For example, I do not believe he is operating from the UK and it is quite possible that funds are automatically transferred out of that account into another and so on. The bank would have to follow the money as they would themselves want it back in the first instance and also to prove a fraud has indeed taken place. If the money ends up in a non EU account then it's a whole new game..

I would have thought the law would be interested if only under money laundering rules.

 

[Jim]

I agree that the money is probably long gone, maybe even outside the UK. So retrieving it from Gab Muller is unlikely. However, the role of the UK banks in these scams is something to be explored in an effort to retieve the money.

For people like us, the banks offer three money transfer processes; cheque, CHAPS and 'Faster Payment'. Their web sites outline the processes and the risks. All three processes require senders to give a name, an account number and a branch/sort code. You, as a sender, have to get these facts right and the sending bank passes the information to the receiving bank, who perform security checks. If there is a problem (e.g. data doesn't match the receiving account) the transfer is stopped and the money sent back to the sender.

I have learned from Barclays and my own bank that the banks do NOT check the name when the 'Faster Payment' process is used. This is a major security issue.

This is important because to open an account in the UK you need to give evidence of identity (passport) and address (utility bills). The ommission of the name checking means that Gab Muller might not be the holder of the account. Several scamming names might be used for the same account.

This makes retreival via the courts difficult, even via 'no win / no fee' colection agencies - because a name isn't certain. A Disclosing Order will have to be obtained to force Barclays to reveal the name, address and whether the money is there to retieve (a Freezing Order would be the next step).

Barclays might be embarassed by the Disclosing Order process. Have the done the identity checks? Did they match the name on the transfer to the account? Why didn't they act on the warnings given to them.

Perhaps they might send the moeny back to us as a gesture of goodwill to avoid the Disclosing Order exercise?

Jim

 

[Jim]

Forgot to mention that he has also been scamming specialist motor bike parts.

Jim

 

[Cliff Beer]

Jim, sorry to hear of your troubles. Sounds like you, and several others, have run into a consistent scam artist.

I'm more familiar with the banking rules and regulations in the US, but have a working knowledge of the UK and EU as well. Bottom line is that if instructions are given by the account holder to deliver funds to another, the bank is not liable for a) fraudulent inducement of the account holder to initiate the payment, nor b) errors in the payment instructions provided by the account holder. a) is based upon common law, and b) is generally based upon disclaimers contained within the depository/customer agreement with the bank.

However, if the bank clearly failed in some gov't mandated security process that would have prevented the loss of funds, then you're likely to get the funds (and atty fees and related) back from the bank but it'll most certainly require a solicitor's help to force it if it's a meaningful amount of money. It'll be a (steep) up hill battle.

As far as where the funds may lay, you just know that the scammer does not leave scammed funds sitting in a bank account with known details (known by those who have been scammed). Two nanoseconds after those funds hit the Barclays account the scammer would have moved it elsewhere - for sure to a different country and legal jurisdiction.

And, you can be sure the scammer is not physically locatd in the UK. Believe it or not, there is a black market for legitimate open accounts in the UK. This is because there are (as was pointed out above) identification requirements to open an account. Typically, the person who opens the account does so with the purpose of "selling" the use of the account to someone else (who is a scammer) and then the account holder claims ignorance ("identity theft") as to use of the account when the law comes knocking.

These scammers are generally very sophisticated as to the details and nuts and bolts of scam. The funds are gone. All you can do is to try to show the bank did not comply with required procedures and insist (generally, with a solicitor's help) that their error allowed the loss to occur and therefore try to impose liability upon the bank.

Again, sorry to hear of your troubles. Stuff like that can drive you to drink!

 

[Keith]

Succinctly put Cliff.

I know the horse is gone, but please now bolt the door. I totally sympathise with all those who have lost money, but (there's always a but) I personally would not have done business with these people on those terms. It is wise to consider that they offer exactly what it is you most desire.. I have bought stuff on the internet for many years and have always taken precautions and have never been 'stiffed'. No, I'm not clever, just cautious.

As always, Caveat Emptor.

 

[BruceA]

Ive read this thread with interest. I run my life where my word is just that. People who do these scams really need sorting one way or another. I would like to think that just as fast as scams are appearing, sites like this one, offer an ability to 'interact' with others around the world with the same interests at heart - and I hope would be only too willing to 'ask around' if the sale item is in their area and perhaps a viewing by such a person. Thankfully for us down under, New Zealand is such a small place one can fly most anywhere at the drop of a hat and knock on some dodgy guys door looking for either goods or your money.
Yes - buyer beware, but I can sense the feeling that such scams will soon be limited due to the closeness of sites and genuine people found on here whom will be only too willing to help 'a brother' out.

 

[domclark]

As i posted earlier i was scammed by this person on the 25th november, a few weeks went by i got suspicious and saw this post. Straight to the banks the next day and luckily had a friend working in barclays, they confirmed my money and many others money was still sitting in this account. The account and name (female) are genuine and there is a UK address!

 

[Keith]

Good luck with that Dom....

 

[GarryM]

The actual gearbox was sold to an Australian Mercedes Pagoda owner in Western Australia some months ago and the photos were from his purchase from someone in UK.
The W113SL forum Pagoda ZF 5 speed trans for sale 1200GBP on London Craigslist is also having some discussion on the scam. I have has several emails firstly stating that it was in London but now it is in Inverness Highland Scotland so I have indicated that I have someone there and would like to look at it. :laugh: Am waiting for a reply.
Garry

 

[GarryM]

Sure enough he is giving the address but a new name:
Daniel F, 47 Church Street, Inverness, Inverness-Shire, IV1 1ES, UK

 

[David Morton]

Church Street is hardly a residential address. I used to stay at the Caledonian Hotel now renamed Ramada Inverness and I suspect that address is, in fact, the hotel.
I'll be in Inverness in February or March for a Cailidh so I could check it our for you.
I suspect this fraudster is nowhere north of the Pass of Drumochter.

 

[David Sturch]

Guys,

I used google street view to check out some of the address's that were given to me. I had one more reply for my outer rim and have not heard back since. I get nervous using wire transfer. Paypal or postal money order is your safest bet. Deposit and COD for the rest. I have been buying a lot off ebay lately. Don't be afraid to PM me if you are buying abroad either, I don't mind checking into companies or people. If you are not sure just ask.
Dave