A very powerful piece of writing by Bryan Forbes

'If' they were still at home in Oz, he could have been killed in a drunken fight.

If the local buses around here had a thinner offside 'A' pillar, then my best mate Paul would not have been hit by a bus and killed last week.

Where do you stop with 'if' ?

'If' they sent in 100 Chinooks to airlift them all out, at least one would crash and kill all the occupants, and within 2 years, perhaps 5% would have died from other causes.

Better to die fighting with your mates and a gun in your hand than in a senseless road accident or drunken brawl.

And lastly, Trooper Jared MacKinney would still be alive 'IF' the Taliban hadn't shot him.

Keith,

I agree in a way. It's the old argument of "How many people in a year die in the factory that makes safety helmets?"...

We can never legislate for everything that happens around us. Chance is exactly that, just chance, and when an ill wind blows...

Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.

Scary shit though.

Graham.
 
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Keith

Moderator
On a serious note 'cos there's nothing funny in being shot (ask me how I... oh bollox) I was slightly amazed that Oz newspaper would run that story. It's not like them at all to moan about their lot. If anything the courage and grit of Oz soldiers have been an inspiration to all fighting men since at least WWI and their selfless sacrifice over the last century to whatever cause they nailed their colours to (including Vietnam) has been a shining example and a true rallying point for all that is good about our society when under pressure.

I salute you guys! :thumbsup:

I believe the editor/owner of that newspaper should be summarily imprisoned for Anti Australian Activities or at least 'embedded' with the front line in Afghanistan until he is either raped by a rabid camel or sent to diffuse an IAD with lead boots.

Hopefully, it will turn out to be Rupert (The Beast) Murdoch.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
M4 Bus Lane

Here in southern England we suffered from stupid legislation regarding our motorways and one of those impositions was the M4 motorway Bus Lane ( a main motorway approaching London from the west) whereby the Blair government decided to use one third of the three lanes approaching London from the west for Buses (often with little or no passengers) Taxi's (about 25% had no passengers) and of late motorcycles. It was also used by MPs to beat the inevitable morning queue. It was Prescotts idea and was called the Blair Lane when it was first introduced. Well, thats the background and here is the good news. It's going to be scrapped from 25TH December with a short re-introduction during the 2012 games and then scrapped again. At long last some action and it proves the pen was mightier. I can almost hear the black cab drivers with their nauseating east end accents campaigning on LBC radio to retain the bus lane but in so many ways they have been instrumental in it's demise. In fact all it did was moved the queue partly 2 miles eastwards and partly onto another motorway which really proved how stupid Prescott was.(It was never in doubt anyway). During this saga when it was first intoduced and subsequently I count seven letters to him on this subject and I got not one reply. He now sits in the upper house (the House of Lords) and continues his fat cat life style. Plus ca change.
 
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Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Not only a major disgrace, but a haven for the Taliban.

The director of military prosecutions is a government appointee and not part of the military. To their credit several Generals and the CIC of the armed forces have spoken out against these charges.



TWO soldiers charged over the deaths of children in Afghanistan say they will defend themselves and the reputation of Australian troops. <!-- google_ad_section_end(name=story_introduction) --><!-- // .story-intro --><!-- google_ad_section_start(name=story_body, weight=high) -->
The unnamed pair are two of three commandos charged over a night-time raid last year in pursuit of a suspected insurgent which ended with the deaths of six civilians - five of them children.
The charges laid by the Director of Military Prosecutions against the three former members of the Special Operations Task Group, include manslaughter and dangerous conduct.
“Words will never adequately express our regret that women and children were killed and injured during the incident on February 12, 2009,” the two soldiers said in a statement today.
“These were people we were risking our lives to protect.”
The charges relate to a “compound clearance operation” on February 12, 2009, when commandos conducted a night-time raid on a residential compound in Oruzgan province where they believed a Taliban leader was hiding.



Defence previously has said the deaths occurred as the soldiers conducted clearance operations using gunfire and hand grenades.
The Director of Military Prosecutions, Lyn McDade, said in a statement today the soldiers were to be charged with “various service offences, including manslaughter, dangerous conduct, failing to comply with a lawful general order and prejudicial conduct”.
Defence later confirmed that only one of the three men facing charges is being charged with manslaughter and that he faces an additional dangerous conduct charge.
It is understood he is the man who forced entry into the compound during the deadly raid.
The compound clearance operation was subject to an investigation by the Australian Defence Force Investigative Service and was referred to the Director of Military Prosecutions in November 2009.
The soldiers facing charges were not named in today's statement, but are members of 1 Commando Regiment, which includes many reservists.
Two of the soldiers issued a statement through their law firm today, saying: “We will strenuously defend the charges and we look forward to the opportunity of publicly clearing our reputations, as well as the reputation of the Australian Defence Force.”
The soldiers accused the media of “many cases” of inaccurate reporting of the clearance operations.
They blamed the deaths on the enemy.
“It should not be forgotten that the casualties were ultimately caused by the callous and reckless act of an insurgent who chose to repeatedly fire upon us at extreme close range from within a room he knew contained women and children,” the pair said.
Brigadier McDade said her investigations had been completed only recently and only after “careful, deliberate and informed consideration”.
In a statement released the day after the attack, defence said the deaths occurred as SOTG soldiers conducted clearance operations through a number of compounds.
“During the conduct of this operation the soldiers were fired upon by Taliban insurgents,” it said.
“The SOTG engaged the insurgents, returning fire in accordance with their rules of engagement.”
When the deaths were revealed, the Afghan government warned that such civilian casualties were playing into the hands of the insurgents.
However The Australian reported last month that the former governor of the province where the incident occurred, Asadullah Hamdam, described the night raid as a mistake. “No. They didn't do this on purpose; it was a mistake,” he said.
Mr Hamdan said the mistake the commandos had made was not waiting until the morning to launch their assault.
Special forces units, like the Australian commandos from the Special Operations Task Group, favour night-time raids for the element of surprise it gives them.
After a series of disastrous night raids by US special forces, their preferred tactic is now to use loudspeakers to call on all those inside houses to exit peacefully before raiding a house.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
In post #446 of this thread I told of some of our S.A.S troops being threatened with prosecution because of an action in which some civilians being used as human shields by the Taliban were killed. There is a petition to the C.I.C. Australian Defense Forces to try and stop this happening.
It is an international petition so all who think this is wrong can sign it.
Go here Stop prosecution of ADF personnel in Force Element Charlie Petition if you wish to sign.
I have.
 
Done Pete! Along with only 15,673 others. Let's keep this moving. I copied the link and will send to EVERYONE. Get 'Er Done!
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Guess what these three miscreants have in common ?

Expenses scandal: three face suspension from House of Lords - Telegraph

Answer: They belong to a different tribe to me.

They should be deported back to the lands they first came from. It's nowhere near enough that they have been named and shamed. They have no shame.

Uddin thought she had got away with it until the Baroness Manningham-Buller (the former head of MI5)and the brilliant mind of Derry Irvine started on the case. Many more Peers are also running for cover.
 
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Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
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<MAP id=imctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_RadChart2 name=imctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_RadChart2> <AREA title="Total Coalition: 12" shape=circle alt="" coords=57,241,8><AREA title="Total Coalition: 82" shape=circle alt="" coords=84,235,8><AREA title="Total Coalition: 140" shape=circle alt="" coords=111,230,8><AREA title="Total Coalition: 200" shape=circle alt="" coords=138,225,8><AREA title="Total Coalition: 331" shape=circle alt="" coords=165,214,8><AREA title="Total Coalition: 522" shape=circle alt="" coords=192,197,8><AREA title="Total Coalition: 754" shape=circle alt="" coords=219,177,8><AREA title="Total Coalition: 1049" shape=circle alt="" coords=246,152,8><AREA title="Total Coalition: 1570" shape=circle alt="" coords=273,107,8><AREA title="Total Coalition: 2167" shape=circle alt="" coords=300,55,8><AREA title="US: 12" shape=circle alt="" coords=57,241,8><AREA title="US: 49" shape=circle alt="" coords=84,238,8><AREA title="US: 48" shape=circle alt="" coords=111,238,8><AREA title="US: 52" shape=circle alt="" coords=138,238,8><AREA title="US: 99" shape=circle alt="" coords=165,234,8><AREA title="US: 98" shape=circle alt="" coords=192,234,8><AREA title="US: 117" shape=circle alt="" coords=219,232,8><AREA title="US: 155" shape=circle alt="" coords=246,229,8><AREA title="US: 317" shape=circle alt="" coords=273,215,8><AREA title="US: 399" shape=circle alt="" coords=300,208,8><AREA title="Total US: 12" shape=circle alt="" coords=57,241,8><AREA title="Total US: 61" shape=circle alt="" coords=84,237,8><AREA title="Total US: 109" shape=circle alt="" coords=111,233,8><AREA title="Total US: 161" shape=circle alt="" coords=138,229,8><AREA title="Total US: 260" shape=circle alt="" coords=165,220,8><AREA title="Total US: 358" shape=circle alt="" coords=192,212,8><AREA title="Total US: 475" shape=circle alt="" coords=219,201,8><AREA title="Total US: 630" shape=circle alt="" coords=246,188,8><AREA title="Total US: 947" shape=circle alt="" coords=273,161,8><AREA title="Total US: 1346" shape=circle alt="" coords=300,126,8></MAP>

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" id=ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_dgYears border=1 rules=all cellSpacing=0><TBODY><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: gainsboro; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; COLOR: midnightblue; FONT-SIZE: xx-small; FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><TD>Period</TD><TD>Australia</TD><TD>Belgium</TD><TD>Canada</TD><TD>Czech</TD><TD>Denmark</TD><TD>Estonia</TD><TD>Finland</TD><TD>France</TD><TD>Georgia</TD><TD>Germany</TD><TD>Hungary</TD><TD>Italy</TD><TD>Jordan</TD><TD>Latvia</TD><TD>Lithuania</TD><TD>NATO</TD><TD>Netherlands</TD><TD>New Zealand</TD><TD>Norway</TD><TD>Poland</TD><TD>Portugal</TD><TD>Romania</TD><TD>South Korea</TD><TD>Spain</TD><TD>Sweden</TD><TD>Turkey</TD><TD>United Kingdom</TD><TD>United States</TD><TD>Total</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2001</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>12</TD><TD align=right>12</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2002</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>10</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>49</TD><TD align=right>70</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2003</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>48</TD><TD align=right>58</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2004</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>52</TD><TD align=right>60</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2005</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>18</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>99</TD><TD align=right>131</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2006</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>36</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>39</TD><TD align=right>98</TD><TD align=right>191</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2007</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>30</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>8</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>42</TD><TD align=right>117</TD><TD align=right>232</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2008</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>32</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>13</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>11</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>51</TD><TD align=right>155</TD><TD align=right>295</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2009</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>32</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>11</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>9</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>8</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>108</TD><TD align=right>317</TD><TD align=right>521</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small"><TD>2010</TD><TD align=right>10</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>14</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>14</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD align=right>8</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>11</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>96</TD><TD align=right>399</TD><TD align=right>597</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: gainsboro; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: xx-small; FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><TD></TD><TD align=right>21</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>152</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>37</TD><TD align=right>8</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>50</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD align=right>45</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>33</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>24</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>9</TD><TD align=right>22</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>17</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>30</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>341</TD><TD align=right>1346</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
In the Daily Mail today - as of today the most popular name in the UK for a newly born male child is...........wait for it ........................Mohammed.
Words fail me.
Can you hear this in Whitehall ? I guess not.
Soon they will have enough to vote in a Prime Minister or a President. By then it is too late - who can you write to then.........
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Well, I have just read the following and have become so enraged by it I think I am capable of comitting murder.


Golden parachute deals net MPs £10.3m

MPs who resigned or lost their seats at the general election received more than £10.3 million in controversial "golden parachute" payments, according to official figures obtained by The Daily Telegraph.



By Holly Watt and Caroline Gammell
Published: 7:00AM BST 28 Oct 2010
56 Comments


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Margaret Moran, the former Labour MP for Luton South, claimed £22,500 on dry rot at her seaside house a hundred miles from her constituency Photo: Abbie Trayler-Smith

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Douglas Hogg, who submitted a claim for clearing his moat, is thought to have qualified for one of the biggest payments Photo: PA

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Peter Viggers, the former Conservative MP for Gosport, claimed £1,645 for a duck house in the garden pond of his Hampshire home Photo: AFP/Getty Images

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Andrew Mackay and Julie Kirkbride, the husband and wife former Conservative MPs, between them claimed parliamentary expenses for both their homes Photo: IAN JONES


The MPs received an average of more than £46,000 each in payments that were described as "monstrous" by a sleaze watchdog.

A total of 220 politicians, including dozens of MPs who were forced to stand down in the wake of the expenses scandal, received the payouts. The first £30,000 of the handout is tax-free.

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The House of Commons is refusing to disclose exactly how much each MP received. It said the money was paid to "assist with the transition back into a non-parliamentary life". The payment is in addition to MPs' gold-plated final salary pensions.
Every MP eligible for the "resettlement grant" is understood to have applied for the money within weeks of leaving Parliament. Those who are thought to have qualified for the biggest payments include the former Conservative MPs Andrew MacKay and Douglas Hogg, who submitted a claim for clearing his moat.
An official review into parliamentary expenses recommended that the payments be abolished.
The money each MP received depended on their age and length of service. The maximum payment is a year's salary – £64,766 after the last election.
Last night, the taxpayer-funded payouts were condemned. Sir Alistair Graham, the former standards chief, said: "I am sure there will be continued public anger that MPs seem to want to continue to milk the system even though they know it will strengthen public feeling about previous abuses of public funds.
"To continue to receive the resettlement grant cannot be justifiable and I think many members of the public will find it unacceptable."
He added: "It is people who have taken the decision to step down and who are going to receive very generous pensions who I think are much less defensible. It seems to me not to be a justified use of public funds."
Martin Bell, the former independent MP and anti-sleaze campaigner, said: "I do not see there is any justification in paying those who are standing down. They have got a pension anyway. There is no cause for a payment for an MP who is standing down, none whatsoever.
"For the others you could make a case. They are strictly out of a job – it is a little bit like being relegated from the Premiership and they need some kind of parachute.
"But in this case the parachute does seem to be unnecessarily wide, particularly given the economic climate."
The cost of the golden parachute payments has been disclosed by the House of Commons for the first time following a Freedom of Information request from The Daily Telegraph.
The Commons said that: "To date, resettlement grants have been paid to 220 ex-MPs, the amount paid in total to date is £10,316,879.26, this is the gross amount paid. The first £30,000 of the grant is tax free, the remainder is subject to tax and NI."
The parliamentary authorities refused to disclose how much had been paid to each MP. It said: "We consider that disclosure is not necessary and that the interests in disclosure do not outweigh those of Members.
"It is up to Members whether they claim it and that decision would seem to be based on their personal financial position or their view of their entitlement to claim it, both of which are personal issues concerning someone who is no longer a Member. The grant is also intended to assist with the transition back into a non-parliamentary life, it is not paying for expenses incurred due to parliamentary duties. All of that adds up to more of a private issue, rather than a public one."
However, the parliamentary authorities said that the amount each MP was eligible to receive could be calculated, as the formula for assessing each payment was public. Using this formula, at least 40 MPs, including John Hutton, the former Cabinet Minister and Ann Widdecombe, who is currently appearing on Strictly Come Dancing and George Galloway the Respect MP, qualify for a year's salary in "resettlement grants".
Others, including Margaret Moran, the Labour MP who is currently being investigated by the police for her claims, is likely to have received £54,403, while Julie Kirkbride, the Conservative MP, would qualify for a payment of more than £30,000.
Dozens of MPs who left politics at the last election employed family members as secretaries or assistants, and they would also have been entitled to redundancy pay.
Former Labour ministers also received severance pay when they left office, receiving more than £1 million in total.
Only four MPs were specifically barred from receiving the resettlement grant. Three Labour MPs had their payments blocked by John Bercow, the Speaker, because they were facing criminal charges over their expenses. David Chaytor, Elliot Morley and Jim Devine will not receive the payment until their trials are over. In February, Mr Morley, whose fraud trial is due to begin next month, said: "I think withholding the resettlement goes against natural justice."
A fourth Labour MP, Harry Cohen, was barred from receiving his pay-off by the standards and privileges committee after he was censured over his claims for a second home.
The last election saw a record number of MPs leave Parliament following the expenses scandal and Labour's landslide defeat.
After the next election, MPs will not receive resettlement grants, although they will continue to receive up to £40,609 in "winding-up expenses".
MPs also have some of the most generous final-salary pensions in Europe, although David Cameron has proposed an end to the gold-plated schemes in future.
John O'Connell, deputy research director at the TaxPayers' Alliance, said: "This is a huge sum of money, especially with the public finances in such bad shape.
"What's more, most of the MPs receiving this payment stood down voluntarily so it's a bit of a stretch to call it a redundancy payment."
 
Well, I have just read the following and have become so enraged by it I think I am capable of comitting murder.


Golden parachute deals net MPs £10.3m

MPs who resigned or lost their seats at the general election received more than £10.3 million in controversial "golden parachute" payments, according to official figures obtained by The Daily Telegraph.



By Holly Watt and Caroline Gammell
Published: 7:00AM BST 28 Oct 2010
56 Comments


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Margaret Moran, the former Labour MP for Luton South, claimed £22,500 on dry rot at her seaside house a hundred miles from her constituency Photo: Abbie Trayler-Smith

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Douglas Hogg, who submitted a claim for clearing his moat, is thought to have qualified for one of the biggest payments Photo: PA

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Peter Viggers, the former Conservative MP for Gosport, claimed £1,645 for a duck house in the garden pond of his Hampshire home Photo: AFP/Getty Images

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Andrew Mackay and Julie Kirkbride, the husband and wife former Conservative MPs, between them claimed parliamentary expenses for both their homes Photo: IAN JONES


The MPs received an average of more than £46,000 each in payments that were described as "monstrous" by a sleaze watchdog.

A total of 220 politicians, including dozens of MPs who were forced to stand down in the wake of the expenses scandal, received the payouts. The first £30,000 of the handout is tax-free.

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The House of Commons is refusing to disclose exactly how much each MP received. It said the money was paid to "assist with the transition back into a non-parliamentary life". The payment is in addition to MPs' gold-plated final salary pensions.
Every MP eligible for the "resettlement grant" is understood to have applied for the money within weeks of leaving Parliament. Those who are thought to have qualified for the biggest payments include the former Conservative MPs Andrew MacKay and Douglas Hogg, who submitted a claim for clearing his moat.
An official review into parliamentary expenses recommended that the payments be abolished.
The money each MP received depended on their age and length of service. The maximum payment is a year's salary – £64,766 after the last election.
Last night, the taxpayer-funded payouts were condemned. Sir Alistair Graham, the former standards chief, said: "I am sure there will be continued public anger that MPs seem to want to continue to milk the system even though they know it will strengthen public feeling about previous abuses of public funds.
"To continue to receive the resettlement grant cannot be justifiable and I think many members of the public will find it unacceptable."
He added: "It is people who have taken the decision to step down and who are going to receive very generous pensions who I think are much less defensible. It seems to me not to be a justified use of public funds."
Martin Bell, the former independent MP and anti-sleaze campaigner, said: "I do not see there is any justification in paying those who are standing down. They have got a pension anyway. There is no cause for a payment for an MP who is standing down, none whatsoever.
"For the others you could make a case. They are strictly out of a job – it is a little bit like being relegated from the Premiership and they need some kind of parachute.
"But in this case the parachute does seem to be unnecessarily wide, particularly given the economic climate."
The cost of the golden parachute payments has been disclosed by the House of Commons for the first time following a Freedom of Information request from The Daily Telegraph.
The Commons said that: "To date, resettlement grants have been paid to 220 ex-MPs, the amount paid in total to date is £10,316,879.26, this is the gross amount paid. The first £30,000 of the grant is tax free, the remainder is subject to tax and NI."
The parliamentary authorities refused to disclose how much had been paid to each MP. It said: "We consider that disclosure is not necessary and that the interests in disclosure do not outweigh those of Members.
"It is up to Members whether they claim it and that decision would seem to be based on their personal financial position or their view of their entitlement to claim it, both of which are personal issues concerning someone who is no longer a Member. The grant is also intended to assist with the transition back into a non-parliamentary life, it is not paying for expenses incurred due to parliamentary duties. All of that adds up to more of a private issue, rather than a public one."
However, the parliamentary authorities said that the amount each MP was eligible to receive could be calculated, as the formula for assessing each payment was public. Using this formula, at least 40 MPs, including John Hutton, the former Cabinet Minister and Ann Widdecombe, who is currently appearing on Strictly Come Dancing and George Galloway the Respect MP, qualify for a year's salary in "resettlement grants".
Others, including Margaret Moran, the Labour MP who is currently being investigated by the police for her claims, is likely to have received £54,403, while Julie Kirkbride, the Conservative MP, would qualify for a payment of more than £30,000.
Dozens of MPs who left politics at the last election employed family members as secretaries or assistants, and they would also have been entitled to redundancy pay.
Former Labour ministers also received severance pay when they left office, receiving more than £1 million in total.
Only four MPs were specifically barred from receiving the resettlement grant. Three Labour MPs had their payments blocked by John Bercow, the Speaker, because they were facing criminal charges over their expenses. David Chaytor, Elliot Morley and Jim Devine will not receive the payment until their trials are over. In February, Mr Morley, whose fraud trial is due to begin next month, said: "I think withholding the resettlement goes against natural justice."
A fourth Labour MP, Harry Cohen, was barred from receiving his pay-off by the standards and privileges committee after he was censured over his claims for a second home.
The last election saw a record number of MPs leave Parliament following the expenses scandal and Labour's landslide defeat.
After the next election, MPs will not receive resettlement grants, although they will continue to receive up to £40,609 in "winding-up expenses".
MPs also have some of the most generous final-salary pensions in Europe, although David Cameron has proposed an end to the gold-plated schemes in future.
John O'Connell, deputy research director at the TaxPayers' Alliance, said: "This is a huge sum of money, especially with the public finances in such bad shape.
"What's more, most of the MPs receiving this payment stood down voluntarily so it's a bit of a stretch to call it a redundancy payment."

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Yes indeed. It's no wonder they've got stupid grins in each picture. They are probably grinning all the way to their banks in the Caymen Islands while you and I are stupid enough to let them get away with it.
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Some wonderful news reported in the Daily Telegraph:
MPs lose battle to escape expenses trial

Three former Labour MPs accused of fiddling their expenses today lost their final bid to avoid criminal trials.


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(L-R) Elliot Morley, Jim Devine and David Chaytor claimed they were protected by parliamentary privilege from prosecution in the courts.






9:48AM GMT 10 Nov 2010

David Chaytor, Elliot Morley and Jim Devine, who deny theft by false accounting, took their cases to the highest court in the land, claiming any investigation into their expenses claims and the imposition of any sanctions ''should lie within the hands of Parliament''.

The Supreme Court ruled they were not protected by Parliamentary privilege.

They will now face separate trials at London's Southwark Crown Court - the first is due to begin on November 22.

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Nine justices gave their decisions today to avoid clashing with the criminal proceedings and will give their reasons for the ruling at a later date.
Nigel Pleming QC, representing Chaytor and Devine, told a hearing at the Supreme Court in October that the parliamentary expenses scheme was part of proceedings in the House, so the men should be protected by parliamentary privilege.
He added: "I also wish to emphasise as firmly as I can on behalf of these former MPs that this is not, and never has been, an attempt to take them above or outside the law."
He said the House had "the power to punish, and to recover any monies wrongly claimed, and is well capable of investigating allegations, including allegations of dishonesty, made against its members".
Mr Pleming said it had been recognised in the courts below that the case raised important issues of principle and was without direct precedent.
"So far as we are aware these are the first criminal prosecutions of Members of the House of Commons - in relation either to a statement made in or to Parliament or its delegates, or based on a member's dealings with Parliament - for over 300 years.
"These proceedings have been brought, and conducted, against an extremely adverse, even hostile, media and political background."
The Lord Chief Justice, Lord Judge, heading a panel of three Court of Appeal judges, earlier this year upheld a ruling by a judge at Southwark Crown Court in central London that the ex-MPs were not protected by privilege.
Former Bury North MP Chaytor, 61, of Todmorden, West Yorkshire; ex-Scunthorpe MP Morley, 58, of Winterton, north Lincolnshire; and Devine, 57, of Bathgate, West Lothian, formerly MP for Livingston, are all on unconditional bail and due to face separate trials.
The three are claiming the criminal charges against them involve questioning or impugning proceedings in Parliament not because the statements and claims made by them are themselves proceedings but because they were made in the course of parliamentary proceedings.
Mr Pleming said the expenses scheme was created and is administered by Parliament for parliamentarians. It was essential to the running of Parliament.
"The administration of the scheme is also entirely a matter for the House of Commons - this extends not only to its creation but to its regulation and enforcement."
 
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