1030 is very original.
gt40p/chassis #1029
- Thread starter ken visser
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1030 is very original.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I think 1059, if it is the ex-Frost car, is very complete and original. I also think that 1072, the Marriott car, has all its original body sections, and its running gear as well as its original tub. The interior was replaced years ago with one obtained from RI, but that interior is now old enough that it looks like the one that came in the car. interestingly, that car has AC, which was not original but was fitted years ago in the UK before it came here.
P/1063 is shockingly original, I think. It served its early life as a PR car for Ford, touring dealerships. It was then shoved into a corner of a Ford warehouse and forgotten for years.
Ford was having a big clear-up and the car was slated to be crushed; the manager of the collection made an appeal to Ford, and was allowed to buy the car for himself.
From what I've been told, he was forced to pay ONE dollar for it. :shocked:
He later sold it to its current owner, for a bit more than that. It is now loved and driven occasionally, but still has very low miles (I think when it left Ford it had less than 2000 miles on the clock). I think it's one of the few genuine GT40s that isn't owned by a gazillionare, but instead by a regular Joe car guy. I don't know that for a fact; that's just what I've heard.
Bill Muserra knows him and started a detailed thread on the car several years ago, which you can see here:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/original-gt40s/15355-1966-gt40-road-car.html
Ford was having a big clear-up and the car was slated to be crushed; the manager of the collection made an appeal to Ford, and was allowed to buy the car for himself.
From what I've been told, he was forced to pay ONE dollar for it. :shocked:
He later sold it to its current owner, for a bit more than that. It is now loved and driven occasionally, but still has very low miles (I think when it left Ford it had less than 2000 miles on the clock). I think it's one of the few genuine GT40s that isn't owned by a gazillionare, but instead by a regular Joe car guy. I don't know that for a fact; that's just what I've heard.
Bill Muserra knows him and started a detailed thread on the car several years ago, which you can see here:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/original-gt40s/15355-1966-gt40-road-car.html
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
There is also the ex-Gary Kohs car, which had a photo spread in one of John Allen's books. I can't recall which one it is, but I will look. It is in excellent shape, and has a lot of the road car items- door locks, lettering, wire mesh grilles on the air scoops, etc- that the track cars did not have. Bright red, unfortunately IMHO, but a beautiful car nonetheless.
Jim,
1063 is the Gary Kohs/Marketing Corporation car.
And I can assure you he paid more than "one dollar"! While Ford DOES sell some cars for a buck (SEMA project cars for example) a friend of mine and Ford employee at the time tried to buy the car and we were out bid at a figure well North of 30K.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
And that was a while ago, wasn't it....I have never seen the car in person. It is supposed to be stunning. I don't know how often it gets out. Or who has it now, I am too lazy to look it up....I thought he worked for Ford or something like that. I'd saw off a leg to buy an original car for 30K. Not my own, you understand.....
Gary Kohs company did marketing and performance image work for Ford. He now owns a high end model company (scale, not runway)
Welcome
Gary is an interesting guy. Got to know him through his model co (over past 15 yrs I have purchased a variety of his planes, trains, cars and ship models). Rick's link above gives an idea of the quality and detail but, one needs to see to believe.
He would drive from Mi in his van to deliver the models as they are large and so detailed that shipping could cause damage.
At first meeting he told me about his "private collection" (has a real WW11 Corsair, had a GT40 ect). Story regarding #1029 is same as he told me.
Interesting guy.
Steve P2125
PS to Rick...My colors?
He would drive from Mi in his van to deliver the models as they are large and so detailed that shipping could cause damage.
At first meeting he told me about his "private collection" (has a real WW11 Corsair, had a GT40 ect). Story regarding #1029 is same as he told me.
Interesting guy.
Steve P2125
PS to Rick...My colors?
Now that Ronnie Spain has agreed to join us, I hope that he will shed some light on the controversy of the two P/1029s. Which one is genuine? Or, for that matter, is neither one the genuine article?
My curiosity is purely academic of course; I don't have a pen poised above a checkbook to buy either of them, and sadly never will have the wherewithal to do so. But I'm intensely curious nonetheless....
Hoping Ronnie will see this and weigh in with his opinion on the matter, which I'm sure can be considered the Definitive Word on the topic! :thumbsup:
My curiosity is purely academic of course; I don't have a pen poised above a checkbook to buy either of them, and sadly never will have the wherewithal to do so. But I'm intensely curious nonetheless....
Hoping Ronnie will see this and weigh in with his opinion on the matter, which I'm sure can be considered the Definitive Word on the topic! :thumbsup:
True, after the LeMans wreck, #1029 ended up at RRR Motors , Gene Hamlin and Bill Schweiger, picked the bones and used the parts to build the Marnita F/A F 5000 car.
Long story short Bob Ash bought the Marnita and has most of / if not all of the usable salvaged original parts from 1029
Long story short Bob Ash bought the Marnita and has most of / if not all of the usable salvaged original parts from 1029
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During my research on P1001 I spoke with John Etheridge who as you know worked at FAV at that time - he completely verified Ronnie Spains course of events as he recalled that the remains of 1029 were returned to FAV after the Le Mans accident and the tub then sat outside in their yard for ages before eventually being disposed of.
Actually I had emailed Bob Ash a while ago about 1029 to enquire about the restoration but had no response whatsoever so I assumed that the guy must have just retained some of the spare parts that would have come with the car but this in itself conflicts with FAVs account as stated by Ronnie Spain whereby they stripped it of the useable parts before disposing of the remainder... Andrew
Actually I had emailed Bob Ash a while ago about 1029 to enquire about the restoration but had no response whatsoever so I assumed that the guy must have just retained some of the spare parts that would have come with the car but this in itself conflicts with FAVs account as stated by Ronnie Spain whereby they stripped it of the useable parts before disposing of the remainder... Andrew
To expand on what I have posted
I am not sure if the wreck of 1029 or just the parts off the wreck ended up at RRR Motors in Homewood Il, would have been around 1968, I do remember going with my father to look a wrecked and stripped race car at a farm in Indiana, I always thought it was the chassis the parts were from ? I was young at the time
Gene Hamlin and Bill Schwieger were friends of my father, they used the parts picked from the bones of 1029 to build the Marnita F/A F 5000 car which was finished about 1970.
Car was named after their wives Marge and Anita
The parts on the Marnita were always referd to as off of McKelvys 40 that was wrecked at Lemans
The Marnita was a tube frame car built to run the new for 68 SCCA F5000 class, Bill and Gene used the GT40s front and rear suspension, steering rack, gearbox, wheels, gauges, radiator and other hardware.
The Marnita was raced for a few years in the 70's, I saw it race at Blackhawk Farms and Road America a few times and also several times in Bills Garage, last time was in the 80's was still on a trailer, flat tires and covered in dust
found this ad from 1973 on Myf5000.com
Marnita F-5000
Professionally built from GT-40 parts. Has, and can beat cars costing
thousands more for thousands less. Many spares, 5-speed.
Competitive regionals, nationals. Best offer Bill Schwieger Glenwood IL.
Competition Press & Autoweek 2/24/1973
Car did not sell and Bill parked it, Around 1989 or so Bill told my father he was clearing out his garage and wanted to sell the Marnita and an Elva Mk 7 that had been converted to a S2000 car.
I told a guy I worked with about the car and he actualy called Stauffers to see if it had any value, they said " No its not worth anything but where is it ? ".
My father ended up buying the car and then contacted Bob Ash, they made some sort of deal and Bob came out with his trailer during a terrible blizzard and picked up the Marnita along with all the other related parts.
I am not sure if the wreck of 1029 or just the parts off the wreck ended up at RRR Motors in Homewood Il, would have been around 1968, I do remember going with my father to look a wrecked and stripped race car at a farm in Indiana, I always thought it was the chassis the parts were from ? I was young at the time
Gene Hamlin and Bill Schwieger were friends of my father, they used the parts picked from the bones of 1029 to build the Marnita F/A F 5000 car which was finished about 1970.
Car was named after their wives Marge and Anita
The parts on the Marnita were always referd to as off of McKelvys 40 that was wrecked at Lemans
The Marnita was a tube frame car built to run the new for 68 SCCA F5000 class, Bill and Gene used the GT40s front and rear suspension, steering rack, gearbox, wheels, gauges, radiator and other hardware.
The Marnita was raced for a few years in the 70's, I saw it race at Blackhawk Farms and Road America a few times and also several times in Bills Garage, last time was in the 80's was still on a trailer, flat tires and covered in dust
found this ad from 1973 on Myf5000.com
Marnita F-5000
Professionally built from GT-40 parts. Has, and can beat cars costing
thousands more for thousands less. Many spares, 5-speed.
Competitive regionals, nationals. Best offer Bill Schwieger Glenwood IL.
Competition Press & Autoweek 2/24/1973
Car did not sell and Bill parked it, Around 1989 or so Bill told my father he was clearing out his garage and wanted to sell the Marnita and an Elva Mk 7 that had been converted to a S2000 car.
I told a guy I worked with about the car and he actualy called Stauffers to see if it had any value, they said " No its not worth anything but where is it ? ".
My father ended up buying the car and then contacted Bob Ash, they made some sort of deal and Bob came out with his trailer during a terrible blizzard and picked up the Marnita along with all the other related parts.
The rare and highly valuable GT40 - less than two hundred of these venerable and highly valued sports racers were built in the early 1960's, and fewer than three hundred remain in existence today....
Look, it's an original Bugatti: Ascona: Bugatti Brescia comes to the surface - YouTube There's only one reason to dig up an old race car: $$$.
Look, it's an original Bugatti: Ascona: Bugatti Brescia comes to the surface - YouTube There's only one reason to dig up an old race car: $$$.
It is actually painted like the German owner wanted. The car was built by Total Performance and Suatter in Germany.
T O T A L P E R F O R M A N C E
SAUTTER HISTORIC RACING - Gallerie
John
Dave Collins
Supporter
Interestingly there was another car with a 1029 chassis plate at the Silverstone Classic this past weekend. This one was finished in the silver with red/white/blue stripes worn by 1029 when it was run into by XGT-2 at Le Mans in 1966 and written off.
Attachments
Maybe this is now the fourth current 1029 : its obviously not the German car - there's a French and a US claimant I believe - if its not the fourth I think it might be this French car rebuilt http://www.gt40s.com/forum/343739-post43.html but any update from all those who know more than me would be of interest
Charlie Farley
Supporter
I had a good look at this 'Silverstone' P1029.
Very interesting. It seemed to share several features with a Superformance:
Door Latches
Dashboard Eyeball Vents, infact the whole dashboard including gauges
Non original 'Hartwell Latches
The section of the bottom of windscreen surround was not dished
When I questioned the mechanic sitting in it, I got this response -
" The fittings are not important, it's the chassis that's important "
My response which wasn't welcomed was " Well that's one way of looking at it .."
Very interesting. It seemed to share several features with a Superformance:
Door Latches
Dashboard Eyeball Vents, infact the whole dashboard including gauges
Non original 'Hartwell Latches
The section of the bottom of windscreen surround was not dished
When I questioned the mechanic sitting in it, I got this response -
" The fittings are not important, it's the chassis that's important "
My response which wasn't welcomed was " Well that's one way of looking at it .."
The silverstone P1029 has recently been confirmed to be a pure factory SPF after it reappeared at Goodwood,despite the big fancy story behind where the owners claimed finding the original motor and transaxle then buying the ID off eBay.
The bob ash/racing icons 1029 also seems to have been recently clarified and is now confirmed to be based only on some if the usable parts that were stripped off 1029s damaged tub when at FAV so there is no actual part if the original tub used on that version 1029, as the whole damaged tub remained in the UK at FAV until being sold off as scrap. It was then sent down to a bodywork company in Exeter for repairs but ended up being totally dissected. The repair deal fell into dispute so the remains were eventually returned to London where they sat for 20+ years.
The French 1029 is a new lookalike car. Origin unknown. This tried posing as 1029 until being caught out. maybe a Gox? Any ideas anyone?
G
The bob ash/racing icons 1029 also seems to have been recently clarified and is now confirmed to be based only on some if the usable parts that were stripped off 1029s damaged tub when at FAV so there is no actual part if the original tub used on that version 1029, as the whole damaged tub remained in the UK at FAV until being sold off as scrap. It was then sent down to a bodywork company in Exeter for repairs but ended up being totally dissected. The repair deal fell into dispute so the remains were eventually returned to London where they sat for 20+ years.
The French 1029 is a new lookalike car. Origin unknown. This tried posing as 1029 until being caught out. maybe a Gox? Any ideas anyone?
G
