A case of life imitating art?

[Will Campbell]

As many people know, one of the features of the Superlite Coupe race car is that it is fitted with power steering. The specific unit used in the car is driver adjustable, created with the intent that the driver would adjust the amount of assist to be a compromise between feel and effort. Too much effort and the feel is dulled because the strain of turning the car tends to mask the subtle clues that the direct steering wheel provides. And too much assist has a similar problem- at least in theory, removing some of the feedback that the tires transmit through the column to the steering wheel.

Most drivers set the level of assist at the lower end of the scale, in order to feel the full amount of information at the steering wheel, obtaioning more feel at a small cost of a little increased effort.

So at Mid Ohio last week, the team noticed that Ryan had adjusted the assist to almost the max. When queried why he wanted so much assist, his answer was revealing: "Oh", he said, "this way it feels just like the steering wheel in the sim I use to practice on every day".

This seems to me to be truly a case of life imitating art- he wanted the car to feel more like the simulator he uses to practice, instead of requiring the sim to more closely track the reality of the actual race car.

As an Old Skool driver, this was most revealing. I never really felt like any of the sims I ever used mapped very closely to the real racing experience, where so much information is transmitted through the seat, shoulders and arms. But apparently the new crop of drivers has a different perspective.

Do the other race drivers on the site use sims- and do they want their cars to match the sim feel, instead of the other around?

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Ruth]

Can't speak to the sim experience, but I'd like to know a little more about the power steering setup.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Do the other race drivers on the site use sims- and do they want their cars to match the sim feel, instead of the other around?

Inquiring minds want to know!

There's another question you should ask first:

Do the other race drivers feel that the loss of feedback between low and high assist in the SLC matters to lap times at all? You're assuming it does.

If not the other questions are moot.

 

[Doc Kaler]

That is/was the one thing I disliked about the sims I've tried when comparing to the real thing (Viper vs sim-Viper). They always had too much input that din't seem to correlate with real steering input. But, perhaps Ryan has a more sophisticated simulator? And, what type of car was he using in the sim to match the SLC?

 

[Mesa]

When I was a kid I raced 1/8th scale gas R/C cars. That must have been where my addiction for CanAm started. Anyways, fast forward to today as I am testing out some high dollar Sim. Owner of the Sim business is asking me questions on feedback. I chuckle and say it's not bad, all you need is some g-force effect and it will be pretty damn good. We soon realise he was one of the kids that raced R/C with me! Small world sometimes.

Would be interesting to know (ulimately) if Ryan would be faster with or without wheel feedback. And if that follows, most Sims don't have g-force feedback....I would be stunned to find out he could drive a real car faster without that!

 

[Will Campbell]

To answer some of the questions:

I don't know the actual sim he uses, but one of his personal sponsors is Playseat, so I assume it must be a relatively good sim. The sim he uses implements a "feedback" wheel, so there is indeed feedback from the sim, presumably like an SLC with a lot of power assist. I assume it's better than the simple PC- or game-based sims I've used in the past.

He uses the Daytona Prototype cars to practice, as these cars are pretty close to the SLC in terms of performance envelope, at least at the sim level. The DP cars are slightly faster on the sim and in real life than the actual SLC, but the differences are small enough that they represent the best choice for practice, apparently. Parenthetically, that is a pretty strong recommendation for the SLC, since the race car we are running has a total investment of about one-sixth of the typical acquisition cost for a real race-ready DP car, yet is very close in appearance- and performance. Pretty good deal, if that is the alternative. Plus, you don't need an army of technicians to support an SLC at the track like you do with a DP car, as the technology is pretty simple on the SLC compared to the DP cars.

Ruth asked about the power steering on the car: it uses an integrated column-mounted electric motor to provide assist, along with a separate on-off switch and potentiometer to adjust the level of assist. Because it is column-based it is a race-car option only, as the column on the street car assumes that the power assist happens at the rack, not on the column itself. If you wanted to add power steering to the street car, it would likely be based on a different power rack that would replace the current manual one, while using the provided street car column (which is a superb piece, BTW).

As to Alan's comment, I'm not sure I understand it. The point of the OP was that this was a case where the driver wanted to adjust the car's feel to match that of the sim he was using- a reversal of the normal objective of a sim, which is to provide a realistic emulation of the physical object, but in a virtual space. Presumably, the intent of making the car more like the sim was to increase the familiarity and comfort level of the car, in order to reduce lap times, so the answer to Alan's question seems self-evident, If I understand it. Otherwise, why would a driver make a change that would increase lap times?

 

[Dave]

Everything refereed to so far is about individual driver preference and highly subjective as a result. What works for one may not be great for another. One thing for sure though that is beneficial to all drivers is practice time in a good sim.

On a side note, but still somewhat related, I hope you guys aren't referring to a PS or xbox game like Gran Tourismo. Even on sim mode they hardly compare to PC sims, perhaps the next gen boxes will, but in the meantime, they are still very arcade like.

Even with PC games, there are few very good sims out there.
GT Legends is one some of the old folks on this forum may like.
GTR, not GTR2 is good.
F12002 is decent but GP3 was better and then GP4 came out and is my favorite now, even though I don't get to play it much anymore.
There are others of course like rFactor and iRacing but I have yet to really give those games a fair shake but they review very well.

My wife is already dreading September 23rd, as are my clients I (though they don't know it). F1 2011 is due to be released which I am dying to get my hands on as F1 2010 was supposed to be the best so far but I have yet to try it.

Then there are sims for the other half.
Force Dynamics
Someone I know just took delivery of one to replace his older model. Must be nice. I know the outside world would cease to exist if I had on of those in my house.

 

[Dave]

I don't know the actual sim he uses, but one of his personal sponsors is Playseat, so I assume it must be a relatively good sim. The sim he uses implements a "feedback" wheel, ....

He uses the Daytona Prototype cars to practice, as these cars are pretty close to the SLC in terms of performance envelope, at least at the sim level.

Playseat is just a seat to sit in with pedals and a wheel connected to it I believe.
I bet you anything he practices with iRacing as they have a DP car, along with other options, to race with.

 

[Will Campbell]

Playseat is just a seat to sit in with pedals and a wheel connected to it I believe.
I bet you anything he practices with iRacing as they have a DP car, along with other options, to race with.

Now that you mention it, I think Ryan mentioned using iRacing.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

As to Alan's comment, I'm not sure I understand it. The point of the OP was that this was a case where the driver wanted to adjust the car's feel to match that of the sim he was using- a reversal of the normal objective of a sim, which is to provide a realistic emulation of the physical object, but in a virtual space. Presumably, the intent of making the car more like the sim was to increase the familiarity and comfort level of the car, in order to reduce lap times, so the answer to Alan's question seems self-evident, If I understand it. Otherwise, why would a driver make a change that would increase lap times?

I understand the principle. Since you made a point that:

"Most drivers set the level of assist at the lower end of the scale, in order to feel the full amount of information at the steering wheel, obtaining more feel at a small cost of a little increased effort."

I assume part (or all) of what surprises you is that the driver would give up "road feel" in order to achieve "sim feel". In that context I understand the surprise and irony.

However, if he does not care about road feel but simply wants the steering to be lighter it's a far less interesting issue, regardless of exactly why he chose lighter steering, because light or heavy steering is simply a matter of taste, whereas less road feel, as you say, is discarding useful information (presumably).

So how about asking him what about the car steering differs from the sim steering?