A.J.'s SL-C build thread
- Thread starter Pow3r
- Start date
It isn't different, the prep will be identical for either, it just depends on how much prep you want to do to get it perfect beforehand. I would prep the parts the same if covering in paint or plastidip, ask any painter. Platidip will not make your gaps come out correct, or fix low/high spots. Only hide them better since it isn't glossy and finishes in orange peel, which in the plastidips case, cannot be color sanded and buffed out. You would also finish in 400grit prior to spraying, which is pretty typical across the board for no matter your top coat. Since gelcoat is fully cured, you only need to rough up and can go right to laying base color. Super easy especially if going same color as your gel coat.
The only point I am trying to make, is that painting is not that hard. Sure, you could save a couple hundred bucks maybe with plastidip. But, will lose thousands on resale. Not to mention the skills that will be learned for other parts of the project, or future projects.
I am a very firm believer in the saying, "if you don't have time to do it right, how will you ever have time to do it over".
If there is only a few spots that need to be touched up on your car AJ, you might be able to get a small container of the gelcoat in matching color, and spray, brush, roll it on and sand smooth and buff. Cheapest, easiest, and best finish outside of painting it entirely.
The only point I am trying to make, is that painting is not that hard. Sure, you could save a couple hundred bucks maybe with plastidip. But, will lose thousands on resale. Not to mention the skills that will be learned for other parts of the project, or future projects.
I am a very firm believer in the saying, "if you don't have time to do it right, how will you ever have time to do it over".
If there is only a few spots that need to be touched up on your car AJ, you might be able to get a small container of the gelcoat in matching color, and spray, brush, roll it on and sand smooth and buff. Cheapest, easiest, and best finish outside of painting it entirely.
This Plasti-Dip discussion is near and dear to my heart. It doesn't bother me to discuss it here.
Scott, I appreciate your input. You're making it difficult for me.... :thumbsup: I will likely be phoning you about this before I make a choice either way.
Mark, yes it will be a track car. But I also intend on driving it as much as I can on the street. That is, if the Penskes aren't too brutal on regular roads. I like the blue, but it is still a little too light, and the color washes out in the sunlight.
It's great to be able to think out loud, and get all this constructive feedback. One thing is for certain, there are lots of options!
A.J.
Scott, I appreciate your input. You're making it difficult for me.... :thumbsup: I will likely be phoning you about this before I make a choice either way.
Mark, yes it will be a track car. But I also intend on driving it as much as I can on the street. That is, if the Penskes aren't too brutal on regular roads. I like the blue, but it is still a little too light, and the color washes out in the sunlight.
It's great to be able to think out loud, and get all this constructive feedback. One thing is for certain, there are lots of options!
A.J.
Sounds good - I've been thinking about this quite a bit myself. I believe Scott may be underselling the amount of prep necessary for paint and overselling the amount needed for plastidip. In terms of prep I believe you'd be looking at at least 2-3x (minimum) of additional prep for paint.
The plastidip requires virtually no prep work beyond patching up the major imperfections - keep in mind this is not meant to be as high a quality finish as paint. Since we're talking matte finish here (unless you're not) then yes, the orange peel won't make much of a difference. The plastidip coats on much thicker than paint and that in itself will help level out minor imperfections. With paint, every imperfection will show on a gloss finish.
I'd also encourage you to take a look at overall cost for prepping materials - as I said, you can get away with a lot less prep work with plastidip. Time and cost savings.
I spent some time pricing out a basic 2 and 3 stage paint job. With primer and paint I was looking at about 400-500 in paint alone. Others may have a source for cheaper paint or if we're talking some basic color, ok. With plastidip and a bag of pearl you can do a car for about 250-350 and get some pretty damn impressive results. Not much of a cost delta here but plastidip is going to be the cheaper choice.
I think with paint you've got to do some type of a booth at a minimum to avoid color sanding all day long. With plastidip ... Eeh, you probably won't see or care.
Time to finish? With paint you're looking at a 2 stage polish at a minimum. Plastidip? You're done!
Is plastidip going to be as nice as a "real" paint job? No. I don't think anyone would argue that that's the case. Is it going to be cheaper and less labor intensive? Yes. Is it easy to re-paint if you get bored? Yes. Is it going to be easy to repair if you get chips? Probably. Peel and repaint. If you don't get a perfect match ... Eeeh...
As AJ has already stated, and I fall in this camp as well, I'm not comfortable spending the time, effort, and cash to paint my car with the risk that after seasoning the body I'll have to repaint or touch up. Look at the work Pete's had to do and how many bubbles opened up with his body. Had I spent money on painting that car only to have those issues come up I would've been pretty upset.
Scott - to your point on ease. i believe it is far easier to get a decent finish with plastidip than it is to get a decent finish with paint. Corrections are also a heckuva lot easier with plastidip.
For those who think you shouldn't be going with the (perceived) lower option because this is a $100k car, do you also believe you should pay a premium for a product when a like product is available at a lower price? Just because it's a $100k car? I see this on other forums all the time, it's a silly argument. Cost and value for one person differs for everyone else. There's no logic to paying more because you "should".
My plan - play with dip, paint my car a few times to learn technique and settle on a paint color/scheme. Then pony up and do a real paint job that's as near perfect as I can get it down the road. I guarantee there are exceptionally few people who, on their first attempt at painting, produced a finish that would be considered acceptable for any of our daily drivers let alone for a super car.
The plastidip requires virtually no prep work beyond patching up the major imperfections - keep in mind this is not meant to be as high a quality finish as paint. Since we're talking matte finish here (unless you're not) then yes, the orange peel won't make much of a difference. The plastidip coats on much thicker than paint and that in itself will help level out minor imperfections. With paint, every imperfection will show on a gloss finish.
I'd also encourage you to take a look at overall cost for prepping materials - as I said, you can get away with a lot less prep work with plastidip. Time and cost savings.
I spent some time pricing out a basic 2 and 3 stage paint job. With primer and paint I was looking at about 400-500 in paint alone. Others may have a source for cheaper paint or if we're talking some basic color, ok. With plastidip and a bag of pearl you can do a car for about 250-350 and get some pretty damn impressive results. Not much of a cost delta here but plastidip is going to be the cheaper choice.
I think with paint you've got to do some type of a booth at a minimum to avoid color sanding all day long. With plastidip ... Eeh, you probably won't see or care.
Time to finish? With paint you're looking at a 2 stage polish at a minimum. Plastidip? You're done!
Is plastidip going to be as nice as a "real" paint job? No. I don't think anyone would argue that that's the case. Is it going to be cheaper and less labor intensive? Yes. Is it easy to re-paint if you get bored? Yes. Is it going to be easy to repair if you get chips? Probably. Peel and repaint. If you don't get a perfect match ... Eeeh...
As AJ has already stated, and I fall in this camp as well, I'm not comfortable spending the time, effort, and cash to paint my car with the risk that after seasoning the body I'll have to repaint or touch up. Look at the work Pete's had to do and how many bubbles opened up with his body. Had I spent money on painting that car only to have those issues come up I would've been pretty upset.
Scott - to your point on ease. i believe it is far easier to get a decent finish with plastidip than it is to get a decent finish with paint. Corrections are also a heckuva lot easier with plastidip.
For those who think you shouldn't be going with the (perceived) lower option because this is a $100k car, do you also believe you should pay a premium for a product when a like product is available at a lower price? Just because it's a $100k car? I see this on other forums all the time, it's a silly argument. Cost and value for one person differs for everyone else. There's no logic to paying more because you "should".
My plan - play with dip, paint my car a few times to learn technique and settle on a paint color/scheme. Then pony up and do a real paint job that's as near perfect as I can get it down the road. I guarantee there are exceptionally few people who, on their first attempt at painting, produced a finish that would be considered acceptable for any of our daily drivers let alone for a super car.
I wasn't underselling it, mearly making sure AJ knew the options. If you feel fine spraying over flaws instead of fixing them, of course your prep will go faster. It doesn't mean the flaw disappears, it is just there waiting for you after you spend countless hours removing the plastidip to finally paint. And spend the time in prep afterall. And pay for the materials again.
So in the end, you will be spending more prep time, and more money overall. That, simply is my point.
So in the end, you will be spending more prep time, and more money overall. That, simply is my point.
Yes, if you ultimately plan to paint the car there's definitely no way getting around fully prepping the body. I don't see that there's any duplicated or wasted effort by not taking it all the way prior to plastidip. I suppose if you really want it perfect before plastidip you could do that, dip, then remove. The dip doesn't seem to affect repair sites.
As far as countless hours removing plastidip ... This video is somewhat sped up but you get a good sense for the difficulty of removal. https://youtu.be/K_Sj5rcRJ6o
Doesn't appear to be difficult or time consuming at all.
No doubt - you will absolutely be spending more money if you dip then paint. But the chances of you getting a better product at the end of all that are higher if you've already made mistakes with the dip than if you made them with the paint.
Scott - it's clear you are speaking from a place where you've painted a fair number of cars/components, but do you have any direct experience with plastidip? Confession - I've only painted small components but never dipped myself. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos of both processes and I recently stayed at a Hilton. Not sure that makes me an authority on any of this ...
As far as countless hours removing plastidip ... This video is somewhat sped up but you get a good sense for the difficulty of removal. https://youtu.be/K_Sj5rcRJ6o
Doesn't appear to be difficult or time consuming at all.
No doubt - you will absolutely be spending more money if you dip then paint. But the chances of you getting a better product at the end of all that are higher if you've already made mistakes with the dip than if you made them with the paint.
Scott - it's clear you are speaking from a place where you've painted a fair number of cars/components, but do you have any direct experience with plastidip? Confession - I've only painted small components but never dipped myself. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos of both processes and I recently stayed at a Hilton. Not sure that makes me an authority on any of this ...
Yes, I have done both. I learned painting by buying the paint, and just doing my first car. A 96' Corvette Grand Sport replica with stripes and all. Came out very nice and hit many shows with it. It is much easier than you would think. Just use a piece of cardboard to spray against to set your gun, and go.
The Plastidip I had a much tougher time. Only did some emblems, and was not happy with the finish and peeled it off immediately. It just took an hour to get completely off just one emblem though. Never tried it on a flat surface. The orange peel created on just the little emblem was enough for me to toss the can and wrap up my plastidip encounter.
The Plastidip I had a much tougher time. Only did some emblems, and was not happy with the finish and peeled it off immediately. It just took an hour to get completely off just one emblem though. Never tried it on a flat surface. The orange peel created on just the little emblem was enough for me to toss the can and wrap up my plastidip encounter.
I've rattle canned a few things that I would be embarrassed to pull out and show anyone. I'm confident my natural abilities will have me messing up my first paint job. Sounds like your abilities and experience were different.
Take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/JYMDA8-jqxs
What are your thoughts about the product after having watched this? Granted, it's being sprayed by someone who's done hundreds of cars and knows the product very well. Take it with a bit of salt, but I think it shows the potential for today's plastidip capabilities. The product is continually being improved.
Take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/JYMDA8-jqxs
What are your thoughts about the product after having watched this? Granted, it's being sprayed by someone who's done hundreds of cars and knows the product very well. Take it with a bit of salt, but I think it shows the potential for today's plastidip capabilities. The product is continually being improved.
Here's an example of their pro level dip, the prior video was of their standard stuff recommended for DIY.
https://youtu.be/PzFqHwZcnK8
https://youtu.be/PzFqHwZcnK8
I have seen those. Really just the same as using a polyurethane paint in application and masking.
A booth will be important either way you go. But, you can easily build one in your garage. Here is pics of a car I painted 3 years ago, in my garage.
My point of bringing this whole point up, is that with very little practice, and very small amount of money over the plastidip, you can end up with this. Painted in your garage if done correctly.
Once a guy gets some practice in and gets decent at it, you would never consider another product. It can be an art, but a very forgiving one because you can sand out runs and flaws. In fg, I actually mix in a little flex agent into the clear. It is a secret weapon against rock chips and corner chips since the paint absorbs the shock.
To touch up repairs, it would be the same process. But, paint would go faster since you would not have to remove the entire coating from panel. Just sand effected area, and respray.
A booth will be important either way you go. But, you can easily build one in your garage. Here is pics of a car I painted 3 years ago, in my garage.
My point of bringing this whole point up, is that with very little practice, and very small amount of money over the plastidip, you can end up with this. Painted in your garage if done correctly.
Once a guy gets some practice in and gets decent at it, you would never consider another product. It can be an art, but a very forgiving one because you can sand out runs and flaws. In fg, I actually mix in a little flex agent into the clear. It is a secret weapon against rock chips and corner chips since the paint absorbs the shock.
To touch up repairs, it would be the same process. But, paint would go faster since you would not have to remove the entire coating from panel. Just sand effected area, and respray.
I think the key to what you've just said is "once a guy gets some practice..." I don't know about other folks but once I paint my car I don't intend to paint it again. With the plastidip product a repaint is quite easy and relatively inexpensive - a good means by which to get this practice. I believe techniques for both are transferable. Money matters aside, as I've said, once I do paint my car I have no intention of repainting it.
AJ - good luck whichever direction you go! I'm still months out before getting my car so I've got plenty of time to overthink everything.
AJ - good luck whichever direction you go! I'm still months out before getting my car so I've got plenty of time to overthink everything.
Ron McCall
Supporter
What are your thoughts on this video?
The finish looks pretty amazing .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah99sCEek8A
Ron
The finish looks pretty amazing .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah99sCEek8A
Ron
PeteB
GT40s Supporter
Comparing using plasti dip from a spray can on an emblem to using a gun to do a entire car with a basecoat, color coat and clear is equivalent to comparing painting something with a can of rustoleum to painting a car with automotive paint. Not the same thing at all.
Have you ever painted before though Pete? I know a guy who bought 40 cans of laquer, rattle canned his entire hot rod, then sanded smooth and at his first show, won best paint! So, that pretty much tosses out your comparison....of my comparison. What do you think is in those cans? Yup, still paint.
I honestly can't believe I am having a discussion of paint vs. plastidip on the exterior of this caliber of car. Wanting to save $200 on a car that you will have $80,000 into that is the outside of the vehicle that everyone sees, and have it only a temp fix and guaranteed to have to do over, does not make sense. Now protecting a very nice new paint job with pd I can see, but having it as your sole finish and the reason for it, is that it is easy to apply (subjectively it appears) and you saved $200, seems like cutting the wrong corner to me.
Pretty much done with this though. Sorry for the rants on your thread AJ.
I honestly can't believe I am having a discussion of paint vs. plastidip on the exterior of this caliber of car. Wanting to save $200 on a car that you will have $80,000 into that is the outside of the vehicle that everyone sees, and have it only a temp fix and guaranteed to have to do over, does not make sense. Now protecting a very nice new paint job with pd I can see, but having it as your sole finish and the reason for it, is that it is easy to apply (subjectively it appears) and you saved $200, seems like cutting the wrong corner to me.
Pretty much done with this though. Sorry for the rants on your thread AJ.
I pretty much just skimmed this Dip discussion. By chance I have direct professional experience in both options discussed here. This is my input an take away.
If you just want to have a presentable (YMMV) or 'fun' finish on your car while you work the bugs out and/or while the flaws in the glass make themselves known, then dip seems a quick way to get there. You don't have to fix every flaw to get to something reasonably 'finished'. Certainly you would not want to fix a bunch of stuff before dipping if you expected a bunch more flaws to show as the body ages. You very well could be fixing the same areas twice in that case.
The prep difference between the two options is significant IMO, I mean why prep the thing to death if you're just going to coat it a high build-textured finish peelable?
Scott is a very talented individual, I think many build/paint challenges come to him more naturally than most. And no, I don't think painting your car in a garage is easy nor does it compare with dip spraying your car in a garage.
Saying that, I also question the dip thing on a car of this level as the permanent finish.
If you just want to have a presentable (YMMV) or 'fun' finish on your car while you work the bugs out and/or while the flaws in the glass make themselves known, then dip seems a quick way to get there. You don't have to fix every flaw to get to something reasonably 'finished'. Certainly you would not want to fix a bunch of stuff before dipping if you expected a bunch more flaws to show as the body ages. You very well could be fixing the same areas twice in that case.
The prep difference between the two options is significant IMO, I mean why prep the thing to death if you're just going to coat it a high build-textured finish peelable?
Scott is a very talented individual, I think many build/paint challenges come to him more naturally than most. And no, I don't think painting your car in a garage is easy nor does it compare with dip spraying your car in a garage.
Saying that, I also question the dip thing on a car of this level as the permanent finish.
Thanks Mesa. Honestly, here is my main concern. I could care less what a guy does to his own car. Sheetrock texture it, put shag carpet on it, don't care. My concern comes into resale values.
Lets be honest, if you plastidip your car first, most will never get around to painting it. Interest will wain and start thinking of selling. Last thing you will do now is all of the prep work it takes for a nice paint job, if you didn't take the time while you were into it. So, if this plastidip thing becomes a "fad", or accepted as a good way of finishing your SLC, resale prices will drop across the boards (read- guys doing exceptionally high quality builds should be concerned with this too). I will speak my mind when I feel a trend is happening that will lower the price of my car possibly $10's of thousands of dollars. All of this due to being afraid of painting. Why waste time learning how to spray a bed liner on the outside of your vehicle, when you could be using the same practice time to be a good painter and save yourself thousands of dollars now and in the future?
Just my opinion, but my main motive is trying to preserve the perceived value of my SLC, and the rest of the guys who own them.
This whole conversation, I can only keep running that dam flexseal shit in a can and the guy floating in his dam boat that he fixed the hole in it with flexseal! AAAhhhhhh. Let it stop! Fix the dam problem, not a band aid solution!
Lets be honest, if you plastidip your car first, most will never get around to painting it. Interest will wain and start thinking of selling. Last thing you will do now is all of the prep work it takes for a nice paint job, if you didn't take the time while you were into it. So, if this plastidip thing becomes a "fad", or accepted as a good way of finishing your SLC, resale prices will drop across the boards (read- guys doing exceptionally high quality builds should be concerned with this too). I will speak my mind when I feel a trend is happening that will lower the price of my car possibly $10's of thousands of dollars. All of this due to being afraid of painting. Why waste time learning how to spray a bed liner on the outside of your vehicle, when you could be using the same practice time to be a good painter and save yourself thousands of dollars now and in the future?
Just my opinion, but my main motive is trying to preserve the perceived value of my SLC, and the rest of the guys who own them.
This whole conversation, I can only keep running that dam flexseal shit in a can and the guy floating in his dam boat that he fixed the hole in it with flexseal! AAAhhhhhh. Let it stop! Fix the dam problem, not a band aid solution!
I am constantly amazed at the level of intimidation that paint work has for even the best of mechanics. Compared to the skill level I routinely see here on this forum, good paint work can be a breeze. An adequate gun, patience and some practice...much of it coming from just primer work will deliver amazing results. Take it from a former body shop owner with 40+ years of daily painting experience.....the hardest part is making up your mind to do it.
