Another piece of the B.O. Win Puzzle!

[Doug S.]

THERE'S the real focus of your question right there. Iraq. The rest is hyperbole IMHO.

Every intel outfit on the planet said Saddam had WMDs. BILL & BILLARY CLINTON said he did. Madeline Albright said the same thing. Ditto Sens. Levin, Daschle, Byrd, Rockefeller, Waxman, AND OUR NOW SEC. OF STATE, John Kerry. Rep. Pelosi thought so, too. As did Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Milulski, and a whole host of other Dems. "Bush lied and people died" was the CROWN JEWEL of CYA spin

OTOH, the REAL money pit, Obamacare, will cost the country T-R-I-L-L-I-O-N-S over the next 10 years in direct costs involved in compliance with it...The responsibility for 100% of THAT BILL - and its consequences - lies solely with Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and all the other Dems who voted it into existence.

The BAZILLIONS the Obama Admin flushed down the john on Solyndra and all the other "green investments" they dumped taxpayer's money into (run by Obama cronies, BTW) which subsequently went bkrpt is just one more costly fiasco created by the Demo's agenda. Obama also gave a no-bid contract to Halliburton - just like Bush did. 'Supported the $700 billion TARP corporate-welfare bailout - just like Bush did.

(Speaking solely for myself, I was flaming mad at Dubya - and still am - for his failure to use his veto pen on spending measures until the ELEVENTH HOUR of his second term. That was inexcusable IMHO.)

So...Bee-OH is guilty of nothing more than the same mistake Gee-DUB made...believing in inaccurate advice from the people he trusted (most of which were in his own administration and as Commander in Chief in his military). That's my point, here...are the Conservatives as willing to hold a fellow conservative as responsible for "wasting" incredible sums of money based on bad advice as they are to hold a reviled liberal? Seems like a double standard to me.

Bee-OH inherited TARP. Bush gave the money away to a banking industry that neither needed the money nor used it for the purposes for which it was handed over to them (loan it out to stimulate the economy), they pocketed it and granted themselves huge bonuses. Bee-OH saved a huge portion of the American automotive industry (our beloved Ford did not need help :thumbsup: ) with his TARP actions AND enacted requirements that the public's moneys be paid back, unlike Bush who seemed to just want to enrich his cronies. Solyndra? Good intentions (reduce dependence on foreign oil), once again took bad advice, but nowhere of the magnitude as Gee-DUB's failures to exercise good judgement.

IMHO we shall have to wait and see if the ACA is such a boondoggle as is predicted by those who believe the sky is falling. We can predict right now, but the real truth won't be known for perhaps a decade. I predict that once the issues with a poorly designed website are corrected there will be more compliance with the sign-up requirements. My concern is not those who do, it's those who refuse. We will all still have to pay their medical costs...and they will still be sending their paychecks back to their countries, rendering them unable to pay for their own medical costs.

Good for you, Larry, for being PISSED at Gee-DUB...shame on you for what you are pissed about. The Iraq war was ALL on Gee-DUB, Bee-OH inherited that, too, and made good on his campaign promise to get us out.

Doug, maybe the are mad about the government intrusion into their lives in the here and now. Affecting people in the here and now.

Maybe they are mad because any criticism if the President is met with accusations of racism, vile "Teabagger slurs" and ugly personal smears making any reasonable discussion impossible. (See Martin Brashir's suggestion for Sarah Palin).

And your question might be summarized as a statement of "too bad you losers-we won, you lost!- get over it" statement couched with "all sincerity". We've heard it before, Republicans are the root of all evil and the tiresome "blame Bush" argument. Doug, that was soooo 2007.

OK, VEEK, I agree that the government is intruding into our lives in the here and now. Tell me a time when it didn't, please, under any administration, either liberal or conservative. It's what government does, always has been.

My parents-in-law are both anti-Bee-OH, and not for anything he has done, just because he is black, and they both freely admit that. There is racial hatred still at work in this country, there is no denying that. As for the TEA-baggers, I am probably the one on the forum who complains the most about them. It is my humble opinion that they are holding the country hostage by their unreasonable demands on the Republican Party, their own conservative leadership. Boehner has turned into a "yes man" for the TEA-baggers because without them he loses his majority...but would he really? Would the TEA-baggers really turncoat and vote with the liberals? How realistic do you think that is? The demands of the TEA-baggers seem intensely unrealistic and their hatred of Bee-OH exceeds any hatred of a racial nature I have ever seen. They are, plain and simple (and, again, IMHO) just cry-babies who won't quit crying until their parents (the Repubs) give in just to shut them up. The Repubs would be much better off without them, IMHO, and the country would be much better off without them, in the opinion of the majority of the country, apparently. Where are the conservatives who so loudly proclaimed "Love it or Leave it!!" when liberals complained about how things were going? Yeah, I thought so.

As for Brashir's comment about Palin...I have never been a Palin supporter, but in this case I think a small band of conservatives should be allowed to hold him down while Palin does to him what he suggested be done to her. That comment is totally unacceptable from a governmental official and he should lose his job over it. Palin's comment was ill-advised, but she does have a habit of making off-the-wall comments and there should be some consequence for her regarding that comment...but the suggestion offered by Brashir is light years ahead of hers in terms of unacceptability.

As for the "you lost, we won"...our country is a country of majority rule. The majority under discussion here is the total of votes. My opinion is that if you don't vote, you have no right to complain. VEEK, you are free to complain all you want, with my support, IF you voted (and considering your presence here in these discussions I cannot imagine you failed to do so). My question was, and still is, where were your complaints when Gee-DUB was wasting vastly larger sums of our country's money after having done nothing more than Bee-0H did...take bad advice. That's all. If you were not screaming bloody murder over Iraq and the way Bush handled his portion of TARP...SHAME ON YOU!

Cheers to all who really do care...the real danger in our country is those who don't!!!!

Doug

 

[marc]

Seriously, Doug, you call Tea Party people that word one more time, and I will show you how a gun works and you won't have to worry about your tea bags again. I will be in Houston before the end of the year.

 

[Larry L.]

Good for you, Larry, for being PISSED at Gee-DUB...shame on you for what you are pissed about.

Yeah...'shame isn't it...that I don't blindly support whatever insane expenditures govt can come up with (as some people do).

The Iraq war was ALL on Gee-DUB...

Perhaps you need to REREAD the 2nd paragraph of my post above? 'Twas NOT done w/o Dem support!

...Bee-OH inherited that, too, and made good on his campaign promise to get us out.

...where upon he redeployed our troops to Af'stan, Africa, Libya and Yemen. But, as I recall, he sent special ops troops BACK to Iraq in Aug(?)/Sept(?) of 2012, did he NOT?

 

[Doug S.]

I would not doubt that special ops forces went back...they are all over the world, doing stuff our government doesn't really want us to know they spent our $$$$$ to train these guys to do stuff we don't want to know about. No doubt in my mind....

Doesn't change the gist of my original question, though...is there an element of inequity in how we respond to government waste as a result of the political party in power and how that aligns with our own individual political idealogies? I can't see how there can help to be...so the degree of tolerance then becomes the issue...as does each of our own individual definition of "government waste".

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Larry L.]

You raise a legit point, Doug.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Doug, personally I don't think Government waste is allied to any one side of the political fence. It comes from "yes Minister" type bureaucrats whose main objective in life is to line their own pockets. Also while the system of cutting a departments budget if they are fiscally responsible and don't spend their allocation is in place wastage will continue.
Far better to give bonuses for thrift rather than penalise it.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Once again, we have a lib changing the subject of a thread because there is no defense for the original allegation.

We all know democrats cheat relentlessly. We know the press covers their cheating and that election officials cheat for the left during the elections and counting the ballots. Now we have the Census Bureau cheating for them.

"Just two years before the presidential election, the Census Bureau had caught an employee fabricating data that went into the unemployment report, which is one of the most closely watched measures of the economy.
And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today.

Census ‘faked’ 2012 election jobs report | New York Post

 

[Larry L.]

^^^ ...and that shocks you...because...?

The present admin has repeatedly demonstrated that, for it and its minions, nothing is too crooked if they think it will increase their odds of achieving their goals...

 

[Bob Fechter]

No shocks here, Larry, just pretending to be the "Paddock Moderator." LOLOLOLOL

 

[Doug S.]

Seriously, Doug, you call Tea Party people that word one more time, and I will show you how a gun works and you won't have to worry about your tea bags again. I will be in Houston before the end of the year.

Gosh, marc, I've had you pegged as a bully for a long time...not just here, but on another forum where we both contribute to the discussions. I just never figured you to be so insecure regarding your idealogies that you felt it necessary to threaten personal harm to someone who raised legitimate questions regarding the Tea-baggers and their agenda.

I do have a personal policy regarding bullies, though, LB knows about it, so now I'll fill you in:



"Never argue with someone more stupid than you,
It'll just make 'em mad if you do.
Just leave 'em believing what they know to be true.
Never argue with someone more stupid than you."

Bill Barwick :thumbsup:

Off you go now...go on, play with the other bullies, leave us adults to deal with the real problems....one of which is bullies, themselves.

Doug

 

[Pat]

...is there an element of inequity in how we respond to government waste as a result of the political party in power and how that aligns with our own individual political idealogies? I can't see how there can help to be...so the degree of tolerance then becomes the issue...as does each of our own individual definition of "government waste".

Doug

Doug, I used to work for the government investigating fraud, waste and abuse. I don't think it takes a genius to define " waste". How about since 1996, DOD (an area in which I have some experience) was never held accountable for $8.5 trillion of unaccounted for disbursements.
On September 10, 2001, then Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said: “According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions.” At issue is massive waste, fraud and abuse." Of course, he worked for the thoroughly evil and warmongering Mr. Bush.

Not much changed since. Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates (December 18, 2006 – July 1, 2011) called DOD operations “an amalgam of fiefdoms without centralized mechanisms to allocate resources, track expenditures, and measure results.” For example. a single DFAS (Defense Finance and Accounting Services) Columbus, Ohio office “made at least $1.59 trillion – yes, $TRILLION – in errors in financial reports for the Air Force in 2009,” according to Reuters, which went on to note, “Those amounts far exceeded the Air Force’s total budget for that year”. You are also free to read my previous posts on the matter of the F35 fighter plane. Lawmakers from both parties have devoted nearly half a billion dollars in taxpayer money over the past two years to build improved versions of the 70-ton Abrams. Senior Army officials have said repeatedly, “No thanks” since the number already built was to deter a massive Soviet invasion of Western Europe that is now improbable and far in excess of current demand.


In 2009 the enlightened, and audacious President Obama identified 0.004 of 1 percent of the federal budget as wasteful and proposed eliminating this $140 million from his $3.6 trillion fiscal year 2010 budget request.
In fiscal year 2010, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS)--the agency that administers Medicare and Medicaid--estimated that these programs made a total of over $70 billion in improper payments.
In the ACA (Affordable care act) the President partially offset the new government health entitlements by reducing $622 billion in Medicare and Medicaid "waste and inefficiencies" over the next decade. Of course one can only wonder why eliminating "waste and inefficiencies" have apparently been tolerated thus far and will continue, at least partially, "over the next decade".

Nor is it difficult to see the temerity of your criticism of bullying while using the homophobic slur "teabagger" to try and put down conservatives (or anyone else for that matter). While you may find adherence to the Alec Baldwin school of rhetoric amusing, I'm not sure how effective it is as an influencing behavior.

 

[Jim Craik]

Pat,

I understand that members of the Tea Party do not like being called "TeaBaggers", you say it is a "put down". Pat, tell us, how is that different than Liberals being called Communists, Socialist and Natzi......

The right here on our site uses deogatory terms to "put down" Liberals almost daily.

Pat, looking at the big picture, which is worse, being compared to a somewhat odd sex act or being compared to some of the worst mass murderes who ever lived?

You can't have it both ways, can you say Hypocrite?

 

[Larry L.]

...is there an element of inequity in how we respond to government waste as a result of the political party in power and how that aligns with our own individual political idealogies? I can't see how there can help to be...so the degree of tolerance then becomes the issue...as does each of our own individual definition of "government waste".

Cheers!

Doug

You raise a legit point, Doug.

After pondering your query for a while, I have come to the conclusion that the answer all boils down to whose individual political ideologies more closely align with the principles upon which this nation was founded. And since The Founders were c-l-e-a-r-l-y for small government, limited regulations, and self reliance, there's no question which political ideology most closely mirrors those today - the conservative's. In fact, The Tea Party clearly comes closest.

It's no wonder, then, that the left vilifies 'em at every opportunity.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

I have missed something, please translate for a foreigner Jim mentioned tea bragger as meaning a grange sex act?... Translate please.

 

[marc]

Doug,
I am not kidding, I am not calling you any term that has a sexist, or dispicable act, and I would appreciate that you stop. I am telling you this as normally civil person that will follow up on promises. I broke the jaw of a boy 2 grades older than me in high school for calling me a dirty Jew and a Kike. I got suspension and was quite happy to spend my time in detention. I would have no qualm to do similar to you. That does not make me a bully, it makes me an enforcer. So Please stop it.

I am very sad that the moderators have not stepped in regarding this name calling. If its anything goes. Lets GO. If not the rules have clearly been rendered obsolete as the constitution.

 

[Pat]

Pat,

I understand that members of the Tea Party do not like being called "TeaBaggers", you say it is a "put down". Pat, tell us, how is that different than Liberals being called Communists, Socialist and Natzi......

The right here on our site uses deogatory terms to "put down" Liberals almost daily.

Pat, looking at the big picture, which is worse, being compared to a somewhat odd sex act or being compared to some of the worst mass murderes who ever lived?

You can't have it both ways, can you say Hypocrite?

Jim, if you are calling me a hypocrite for condemning the use of a homophobic slur then so be it. I personally think name calling is a fools errand.
But sexual and racial slurs are vile and disgusting and if one wishes to tolerate or embrace them, I guess it's a personal value statement and choice one makes. They are wrong so I chose to criticize and often confront the act of using them, especially as taunts. I consider condemning the behavior a statement of my values.
As a serious caution, if you see a moral equivalence between name calling a term for a political ideology versus a gay slur then you really want to stay out of establishments.
that might serve alcohol.

For those of you not familiar with American urban street language, a "tea bagger" is slang for someone (typically males) who on a casual basis engages in homosexual oral sex.
Slang: a person who tea-bags a sexual partner. Tea bag (sexual act), a man placing his scrotum in the mouth of a sexual partner
The term normally immediately precedes fisticuffs.

This seems topic to be taking an emotional level that doesn't suit anyone well. Can we agree to stop using racial, ethnic, sexual ageist, and religious slurs and taunts and all take a chill pill, make nice with each other at least on a personal level? There's no need to threaten anybody, instead just block them and if you find someone particularly offensive take a que from Bogart.

 

[Doug S.]

I have missed something, please translate for a foreigner Jim mentioned tea bragger as meaning a grange sex act?... Translate please.

It's not just you, Pete...I have never heard anything about Tea-baggers meaning anything other than a reference to the Boston Tea Party, a part of our nation's history wherein the monarchy in Great Brittain decided to punish the early settlers by imposing huge taxes on tea, which did not grow naturally in the Americas and was available only through import, which meant get it from Great Brittain. There was a ship in the Boston harbor, filled with tea to sell to the settlers, and when they heard about the huge taxes the monarchy intended to collect they dressed up as American Indians and dumped all the tea leaves into Boston Harbor. We refer to that as the "Boston Tea Party".

So....TEA is an acronymn...for 31 years it meant "Texas Education Agency" to me, then this group of rather vocal individuals with extreme right wing political idealogy came along and called themselves the TEA party...supposedly an acronymn for "Taxed Enough Already". That's all I know about TEAbaggers.....never, ever heard anything about what Veek described as a homophobic slur.

Who would have guessed?

Doug

 

[Doug S.]

Doug,
I am not kidding, I am not calling you any term that has a sexist, or dispicable act, and I would appreciate that you stop.

I took you off "Ignore" long enough to read this reply...I assure you I had never heard that description and had no intent to refer to you with any term that describes such a despicable act. You will never see me using that term again.

I have never avoided admitting it when I was wrong...hard to think of myself as wrong in this instance since I had never heard the term described as it has been....but, regardless, I had no intent to describe you in such a manner and for the manner in which it came across I publicly apologize.

I will say that it doesn't surprise me what you just divulged about your violent history, though....have always thought of you as a bully, it just comes across loud and clear in your egocentric, intolerant nature when others disagree with you. SHAME on you...and for that I am not apologetic.

Now...onward, through the fog...:shocked:

Doug

 

[Jim Craik]

No Pat I'm not calling you a hypocrite, but I am calling the Tea Party Hypocrytical, they have used every slur imaginable to attack President Obama, yet they become awful thin skinned when people use a word they all use.

Blen Beck says he is proud to be a TeaBagger..........
Andrew Brietbart said "I am a TeaBagger"'

​

This is from the Tea Party website

I'm a Proud Teabagger and Real American
Posted byButch PornstacheatWednesday, April 15, 2009


Listen up, you collection of tax-and-spend limousine liberals, pinko Commies, queerbaits, ladyboys, feminazi castrators, and assorted freaks: Go right ahead and have your little gigglefest about the teabag parties that real Americans like myself are having all over the country today, because while you're making your snide jokes about rightwing conspiracies, we're actually rightwing conspiratizing—and you'll be sorry when we take back the country through the mighty power of teabagging!

 

[Doug S.]

—and you'll be sorry when we take back the country through the mighty power of teabagging!

...or, maybe they'll just beat up the rest of the country and force everyone to buy into their political agenda...:furious:

Cheers, Jim.....let's see if the TEA Party affecionados on the forum who are also verbally abusive are man enough to apologize for their own words...takes a big man, let's see how big they really are (don't hold your breath, though....)

Doug