A video that was forwarded to me over the weekend. I can't vouch for authenticity, but it sure makes you go "huh?"
YouTube - Obama October surprise
Joey
YouTube - Obama October surprise
Joey
Another US Election Quandry
- Thread starter jcdean
- Start date
This video is the biggest crock of shit I've seen yet. If you want to disagree with Obama, vote for McCain, then do it. This kind of crap is just that, crap.
Spend two minutes investigating the statements made, consider the source (Molotov Mitchell? jesus christ!) and then think for 30 seconds.
Spend two minutes investigating the statements made, consider the source (Molotov Mitchell? jesus christ!) and then think for 30 seconds.
I spent a few hours investigating it. The source is without a doubt anti-Obama. Mr. Berg is vehemently pro-Hillary. I thought on it quite a bit longer than 30 seconds. The documentation from Mr. Berg is posted on Justia.com which is a dependable source for this type of information as used by the U.S. District Court, Eastern District of Pennsylvania.
With that said, why so vitriolic? I had just never heard this before the weekend and found it interesting and was interested in other opinions. I take it you don't believe it?
Joey
With that said, why so vitriolic? I had just never heard this before the weekend and found it interesting and was interested in other opinions. I take it you don't believe it?
Joey
Anyone who believes this type of political smut is uneducated and/or plain stupid.
A friend sent me the same video, I watched it, then thought about it for a bit....seems anyone born to a U.S. citizen is automatically a U.S. citizen, they don't even have to be born in the U.S.. However, if they have dual citizenship, as I understand it they have to renounce one of them at the time they turn 21. Besides that, he already satisfied a clerk somewhere that his citizenship was not in question when he filed for candidacy, he doesn't need to prove it again. I said this to my friend, will say it here.....this is much ado about nothing.
This campaign has been so filled with mudslinging that I don't really think I'm going to vote FOR anyone, but I may well vote AGAINST one of them.....our only hope is to ride herd over whichever one of these bozos gets elected and make them honor their campaingn promises....which they never do (who remembers George Bush Sr.'s "Read my lips, NO MORE TAXES!").
Doug
This campaign has been so filled with mudslinging that I don't really think I'm going to vote FOR anyone, but I may well vote AGAINST one of them.....our only hope is to ride herd over whichever one of these bozos gets elected and make them honor their campaingn promises....which they never do (who remembers George Bush Sr.'s "Read my lips, NO MORE TAXES!").
Doug
Doug,
Totally agree with you. Seems as this would have came up long before now if it held any water. I just wish, as clamed, that if there is documentation available it would be provided. I think it actually makes both sides seem petty by not simply solving the question. I do not like elections that are decided by voting for who upset you the least.
Totally agree with you. Seems as this would have came up long before now if it held any water. I just wish, as clamed, that if there is documentation available it would be provided. I think it actually makes both sides seem petty by not simply solving the question. I do not like elections that are decided by voting for who upset you the least.
Let me explain to you "why the vitriol". This type of idiotic nonsense has been used in recent US elections, against members of both parties. It debases what little is left of intelligent discourse in our political landscape.
When you post idiotic drivel such as the video above, you engage in the debasement. It is not interesting. It detracts from having any kind of "reasoned debate" on any of the many serious issues which we face.
I'll be glad to have a calm, thoughtful conversation on those issues and where the current candidates stand, with you or anyone else.
When you post idiotic drivel such as the video above, you engage in the debasement. It is not interesting. It detracts from having any kind of "reasoned debate" on any of the many serious issues which we face.
I'll be glad to have a calm, thoughtful conversation on those issues and where the current candidates stand, with you or anyone else.
There a different issues at work here.
#1 is whether or not he is a natural born citizen. The birth certificate from Hawai'i
appears to pass the muster, so he is a US citizen.
However, the further issues are whether or not he has renounced is citizenship
(if ever), or carries dual citizenship. The latter seems to not be an issue since
I do not believe dual citizenship is specified anywhere as being a problem. I am
also unsure if "renouncing" his citizenship applies since it is debatable whether or
not that even happened. His adoption may not come into play at all. Although
people point to Indonesian law stating that by becoming an Indonesian citizen
by virtue of adoption implies giving up all other citizenship, under US law, a parent
cannot give up a child's citizenship. And, when Obama returned to the US at age
10, it is highly unlikely (and there are no records to prove) that the State Department
accepted any renunciation of his citizenship.
Also, the only criteria according to the Constitution are:
1) Natural born citizen
2) At least 35 years of age
3) Lived in the US for 14 years
Obama appears to pass all three. We'll see how the Berg case works out, but I suspect
that if it had any real merit, the GOP would have picked up on it by now.
Ian
#1 is whether or not he is a natural born citizen. The birth certificate from Hawai'i
appears to pass the muster, so he is a US citizen.
However, the further issues are whether or not he has renounced is citizenship
(if ever), or carries dual citizenship. The latter seems to not be an issue since
I do not believe dual citizenship is specified anywhere as being a problem. I am
also unsure if "renouncing" his citizenship applies since it is debatable whether or
not that even happened. His adoption may not come into play at all. Although
people point to Indonesian law stating that by becoming an Indonesian citizen
by virtue of adoption implies giving up all other citizenship, under US law, a parent
cannot give up a child's citizenship. And, when Obama returned to the US at age
10, it is highly unlikely (and there are no records to prove) that the State Department
accepted any renunciation of his citizenship.
Also, the only criteria according to the Constitution are:
1) Natural born citizen
2) At least 35 years of age
3) Lived in the US for 14 years
Obama appears to pass all three. We'll see how the Berg case works out, but I suspect
that if it had any real merit, the GOP would have picked up on it by now.
Ian
I've seen that one already.
If you want another interesting and thought provoking wrench thrown into the works, consider this...
The US Supreme Court has never had a case come before it to define the term "Natural Born Citizen" as it applies in the US Constitution.
I am a "constructionist" of that document, and of the belief that the constitution means simply what it says.
"Natural Born" to me means born on US soil.
John McCain was born on a US military base in Panama.
That US foriegn military base, according to the treaty with the Government of Panama at that time, was not considered US soil.
Not all foriegn US bases are considered US soil.
At the time, the base was under a lease agreement with the Government of Panama.
The US State Department guidelines that allow citizenship to be granted to a child born to US parents outside the USA, were not adopted until, I think, 16 years or so after Senator McCain was born.
What does all this mean?
I think its like the recent 2nd amendment case that recently was decided by the court, in other words until a case goes that far and gets ruled on one way or another, we will really never know.
Doesn't matter though, I'm still going to vote for John.
Cheers,
Scott
If you want another interesting and thought provoking wrench thrown into the works, consider this...
The US Supreme Court has never had a case come before it to define the term "Natural Born Citizen" as it applies in the US Constitution.
I am a "constructionist" of that document, and of the belief that the constitution means simply what it says.
"Natural Born" to me means born on US soil.
John McCain was born on a US military base in Panama.
That US foriegn military base, according to the treaty with the Government of Panama at that time, was not considered US soil.
Not all foriegn US bases are considered US soil.
At the time, the base was under a lease agreement with the Government of Panama.
The US State Department guidelines that allow citizenship to be granted to a child born to US parents outside the USA, were not adopted until, I think, 16 years or so after Senator McCain was born.
What does all this mean?
I think its like the recent 2nd amendment case that recently was decided by the court, in other words until a case goes that far and gets ruled on one way or another, we will really never know.
Doesn't matter though, I'm still going to vote for John.
Cheers,
Scott
Last edited:
For anyone interested, Wikipedia has this bit of info re McCain's eligibility
John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and is the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States,[7] federal law states: "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States."[8] The law that conferred this status took effect on August 4, 1937, one year after John McCain was born — albeit with retroactive effect, resulting in McCain being declared a U.S. citizen.[9]
Natural-born citizen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and is the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States,[7] federal law states: "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States."[8] The law that conferred this status took effect on August 4, 1937, one year after John McCain was born — albeit with retroactive effect, resulting in McCain being declared a U.S. citizen.[9]
Natural-born citizen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Although arcane, it is interesting nonetheless.
Here are a couple of links discussing it further;
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp
Here are a couple of links discussing it further;
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp
Last edited:
Yeah, the McCain issue was settled due to the the retroactive decision.
However, there are a few noticeable cases where citizenship is not so clear:
Barry Goldwater, the 1964 GOP nominee, was born in Arizona while it was still
a territory. The Constitution states that Natural Born Citizen refers to the
United States, not US Territories.
George Romney, who ran for the 1968 GOP nomination, was born to US citizens
in Mexico. I don't recall if his parents actually met the "age + residency requirement".
Lawsuits like the one Berg has filed have been filed before. I don't recall either
side bringing up the issue in recent times. And, considering that the nominees
must pass scrutiny in the first place, I suspect the reason neither side has tried
to use the citizenship issue is because the issues just aren't there.
(edit - was working on posting this before reading the links Scott provided)
Ian
However, there are a few noticeable cases where citizenship is not so clear:
Barry Goldwater, the 1964 GOP nominee, was born in Arizona while it was still
a territory. The Constitution states that Natural Born Citizen refers to the
United States, not US Territories.
George Romney, who ran for the 1968 GOP nomination, was born to US citizens
in Mexico. I don't recall if his parents actually met the "age + residency requirement".
Lawsuits like the one Berg has filed have been filed before. I don't recall either
side bringing up the issue in recent times. And, considering that the nominees
must pass scrutiny in the first place, I suspect the reason neither side has tried
to use the citizenship issue is because the issues just aren't there.
(edit - was working on posting this before reading the links Scott provided)
Ian
AND THEN,,,,,,,,,,
There are those CITIZENS that can not be fully trusted!!!!
Iron Sheik is the TRUE American Citizens. Most (if not all) of you on this Forum are Citizens of Europe that invaded this beautiful land, raped and pillaged and brought idiotic sports such American Football and Catfish Wrangling!
Those of us that were brought here against our will (Africans), and those that sneaked in (Sheik and his Mexican friends) are the true citizens of US of A. Without the “mongrels”, this country would have been a boring tasteless place (have you seen a white man dance on a dance floor?!) Besides, white women would have been left unsatisfied for eternity.
Once Hussein is elected, I will be designated as the czar of Immigration. All male white people will be deported back to Europe, all soft rock music (specially Beatles and Beach boys crap) will be banished and anyone seen eating bland food or Buttwider will receive 50 lashes.
On November 4th, I WILL be the moderator of this Forum. Allah help all you people of Pink pigment.
P.S I will keep Ronald as the Administrator, he HAS been a closet “Mongrel sympathizer” despite his Confederate Carolina back ground.
There are those CITIZENS that can not be fully trusted!!!!
Iron Sheik is the TRUE American Citizens. Most (if not all) of you on this Forum are Citizens of Europe that invaded this beautiful land, raped and pillaged and brought idiotic sports such American Football and Catfish Wrangling!
Those of us that were brought here against our will (Africans), and those that sneaked in (Sheik and his Mexican friends) are the true citizens of US of A. Without the “mongrels”, this country would have been a boring tasteless place (have you seen a white man dance on a dance floor?!) Besides, white women would have been left unsatisfied for eternity.
Once Hussein is elected, I will be designated as the czar of Immigration. All male white people will be deported back to Europe, all soft rock music (specially Beatles and Beach boys crap) will be banished and anyone seen eating bland food or Buttwider will receive 50 lashes.
On November 4th, I WILL be the moderator of this Forum. Allah help all you people of Pink pigment.
P.S I will keep Ronald as the Administrator, he HAS been a closet “Mongrel sympathizer” despite his Confederate Carolina back ground.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Faili, Does this mean that I will have to stop drinking Coor's light? Are you back? How was the swim across the river?
Love ya baby!
Howard.
Love ya baby!
Howard.
Alvin, Greggory knows best!
Furthermore, I have been told by "The Man" the sneakers (in the following picture) were special ordered for me to wear.
The TEXT on these shoes were designed by "Mr. W" for the undesirable citizens of USA. I must wear these at all times, so that "the Man" can identify me at all times.
Furthermore, I have been told by "The Man" the sneakers (in the following picture) were special ordered for me to wear.
The TEXT on these shoes were designed by "Mr. W" for the undesirable citizens of USA. I must wear these at all times, so that "the Man" can identify me at all times.
Attachments
If that's the case, I wouldn't mind dropping in on some relatives near Palermo and Genoa. Am sure the new tax structure(spread the wealth around) will leave at least this country in a recession/depression. That way I can drown my sorrows in some good wine and scenery!!
Bill
Bill
