B.O. Supports Mosque near ground zero.

I'm just not sure where to go here. My belief system is very deep rooted and my opinions come from this belief system. I believe that this Mosque placement is to claim victory over the US. I believe that BO is a Muslum and wants the Mosque placed there. I believe that the Burlington Coat Factory building is the closest place that land will be available and that it represents the GZ because it was also hit by part of an airplane, therefor bringing it to the realm of the twin towers, because of the damage to the building to the minds of the Muslum people. I believe that if this were to be a Christian building, there would be great challenges to a building permit being issued because of the open mental and verbal attack upon Christians in America.

I believe that All Muslums want ALL Americans dead even if they are of a Liberal mind.

I have learned a lot about the Qo'ran lately and these things I have learned for myself. The Qo'ran speaks about peace in the first part of the book, however is superceeded by the destruction of nonbelievers at the last half of the same book. Hence, a believer can quote peace from the book knowing it is superceeded by the real intent of making the whole world Mulsum.

Flame suit on.
 

Dave Lindemann

Lifetime Supporter
Tom -

That's the great thing about the country we live in - one can believe whatever one wants to believe in - no flame suit needed in my opinion. Saying "All Muslums want ALL Americans dead" is a huge stretch IMO. Also consider that there are "Christians" with some pretty extreme views on other cultures/religions. In my opinion "anything" taken to the extreme - left or right - can be dangerous.

Best regards,
Dave L
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
I'm just not sure where to go here. My belief system is very deep rooted and my opinions come from this belief system. ........ I believe that BO is a Muslum.....

Common misconception.....I could have C&P'ed the entire Associated Press article, but here's the gist of it:

NEW YORK (AP) — "President Obama is a Muslim." ''He's not an American citizen." ''He wasn't even born here."
None of this is true. But to surprising levels, it is believed.
Blame it on the media, or on human nature. All presidents deal with image problems — that they're too weak or too belligerent, too far left or far right. But Obama also faces questions over documented facts, in part because some people identify more with the rumormongers than the debunkers.
"Trust and distrust — that explains almost all of it," says Nicholas DiFonzo, professor of psychology at the Rochester Institute of Technology and an expert on rumor and gossip research. "We are in such a highly polarized political environment. Our country is sorting itself into more closely knit, opposing factions each year" — factions, DiFonzo suggests, that in turn become "echo chambers" for factoids that aren't fact at all.
<SCRIPT>document.write('<iframe style="float:right;margin-left:5px" src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/news.earthlink.dart/news_300x250_top;sz=300x250;ptile=5;ord='+rand+'?" width="300" height="250" frameborder="no" border="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>');</SCRIPT><IFRAME style="FLOAT: right; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px" height=250 marginHeight=0 border=0 src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/news.earthlink.dart/news_300x250_top;sz=300x250;ptile=5;ord=36452012?" frameBorder=no width=300 marginWidth=0 scrolling=no></IFRAME>
Nearly one in five people, or 18 percent, said they think Obama is Muslim, up from the 11 percent who said so in March 2009, according to a poll released Thursday. The proportion who correctly say he is a Christian is just 34 percent, down from 48 percent in March of last year.
The White House even felt compelled to respond with a terse knockdown from spokesman Bill Burton: "The president is obviously a Christian. He prays every day."
Obama is the Christian son of a Kenyan Muslim father and a Kansas mother. Born in Hawaii, he lived from ages 6 to 10 in predominantly Muslim Indonesia with his mother and Indonesian stepfather. His full name, Barack Hussein Obama, sounds Muslim to many."

And here's a link if you'd like to read the article in its entirety:

EarthLink - Top News

Beliefs aren't always based on logic, though....emotion has a much greater impact on beliefs than logic, IMHO.

Cheers from Doug
 
This is funny!

No, this is not a joke. In fact, it is instead one of the most brilliant pieces of provocations in recent years. Greg Gutfeld from Fox News’ Red Eye announced today via his blog that he is actively speaking to investors and plans on opening a gay bar next to the controversial mosque being built near Ground Zero in New York. To make matters worse (better?) the bar will be specifically designed to cater to homosexuals of the Islamic faith. God, this is going to be an exciting block.

Here’s Gutfeld’s entire post which he will expand upon during tonight’s Red Eye:

“So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it’s all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world.

As an American, I believe they have every right to build the mosque – after all, if they buy the land and they follow the law – who can stop them?

Which is, why, in the spirit of outreach, I’ve decided to do the same thing.

I’m announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space.

This is not a joke. I’ve already spoken to a number of investors, who have pledged their support in this bipartisan bid for understanding and tolerance.

As you know, the Muslim faith doesn’t look kindly upon homosexuality, which is why I’m building this bar. It is an effort to break down barriers and reduce deadly homophobia in the Islamic world.

The goal, however, is not simply to open a typical gay bar, but one friendly to men of Islamic faith. An entire floor, for example, will feature non-alcoholic drinks, since booze is forbidden by the faith. The bar will be open all day and night, to accommodate men who would rather keep their sexuality under wraps – but still want to dance.

Bottom line: I hope that the mosque owners will be as open to the bar, as I am to the new mosque. After all, the belief driving them to open up their center near Ground Zero, is no different than mine.

My place, however, will have better music.”

Hot Air contacted Andy Levy who reiterated that Gutfeld is serious. And, on his blog, Gutfeld points to the lack of humor in the post as further proof of his intentions (although, I think he’s under estimating himself. That last line about the music is hilarious).

I, personally, think it’s a brilliant idea. I absolutely abhor all of this anti-mosque nonsense currently going on in this country. It’s disgusting bigotry plain and simple. However, just because I support Muslim Americans in their fight against anti-Islam prejudice, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get a few dings for their religion’s own prejudice against homosexuals. If you want to be treated fairly, you should treat others fairly as well. Still though, the only thing that would make this plan perfect would be if Gutfeld created a chain of gay bars and plopped them down next to churches and synagogues since it’s not like those religions have been super open-minded.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Maybe we can get someone to open up a "Muslim" oriented "gentleman's bar" next to the mosque next door.....it could be decorated like a desert tent with palm trees and camels. The ladies don't have to be Muslim, just look the part.

Yep, I like the idea, too!

Cheers from Doug!
 
Here is a take from Dick Morris:


GROUND ZERO MOSQUE: THE REAL ISSUE

By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN

Published on DickMorris.com on August 18, 2010

The proposed mosque near to ground zero is not really a religious institution. It would be -- as many mosques throughout the nation are -- a terrorist recruitment, indoctrination and training center. It is not the worship of Islam that is the problem. It is the efforts to advance Sharia Law with its requirement of Jihad and violence that is the nub of the issue.

There is a global effort to advance Sharia Law and make it the legal system of the world. Most major banks and financial institutions offer Sharia Compliant Funds which have their investments vetted by the most fundamentalist and reactionary of clerics to assure that they advance Sharia Law. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the founder of the proposed Mosque, helps to prepare a Sharia Index which rates countries on their degree of compliance with Sharia Law. In the United Kingdom, many courts have recognized Sharia as the governing law on matters between two Muslims.

Not only is Sharia Law a vicious anti-female code which orders death by stoning, promotes child marriage, decriminalizes abuse of women, and gives wives no rights in divorce, but it also explicitly recognizes the duty of all Muslims to wage Jihad against non-believers and promotes violence to achieve its goals. In this respect, violent Jihad is as inherent in Sharia Law as revolution is in Communist doctrine.

But there are non-Sharia mosques where peaceful and spiritual Muslims worship God in their own way without promoting violence. A soon-to-be published study funded by Frank Gaffney's Center for Security Policy, found that 20% of the mosques in the United States have no taint of Sharia and simply promote peaceful worship. But 80% are filled with violent literature, Sharia teachings, and promotion of Jihad and its inevitable concomitant -- terrorism.

Which brings us to the ground zero mosque. There can be no doubt that any mosque organized and run by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf will be based on Sharia Law and will serve as local branch office of the pan-Islamic terrorist offensive against the west. That such a facility should be located right next to the place where Jihad achieved its most hideous triumph is unspeakably inappropriate.

President Obama is confusing the issue when he describes it as one of religious freedom. There is broad latitude to worship God as one chooses. But there is none to promote violence and terrorism. The record of involvement of Sharia mosques with the 9-11 attackers and the Ft. Hood massacre shooter is so deep and extensive that it vividly underscores the difference between a religious institution and an organization that promotes terrorism.

Politically, President Obama's defense of the mosque and his efforts to make it a First Amendment issue are incredibly self-destructive. They raise questions about his political sanity. It is hard to believe how tone deaf he must have become to take such a position. He has now embraced two positions that are anathema to two-thirds of all Americans -- the mosque and opposition to Arizona's immigration law. Neither was a controversy that sought him out. He waded into each one voluntarily with flags flying. He had no role in the Arizona law but his lawsuit to invalidate it made it his fight. He does not sit on the New York City Planning Commission, but his endorsement of the mosque puts him squarely in the center of controversy. What is he using for brains these days?

To continue the efforts to battle Sharia Law and the attempts of radical Muslims to use it to destroy our values and the gains of feminism, please follow the work funded by the Center for Security Policy and conducted by David Yerushalmi. To help to fund their efforts, go to centerforsecuritypolicy.org.

This is the NYT article covering Archbishop's Dolan's comments:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/nyregion/19dolan.html?_r=1&src=me
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
I believe that All Muslums want ALL Americans dead even if they are of a Liberal mind.
Posted by Tom.

Mohamud Ali wants to kill me?

Tom If Obama is a Muslum, why would he apoint a Jew to the Supreme Court?
I've seen him eat a ham sandwich.
 
Last edited:

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
I'm just curious....we're a pretty well "aged" group around here (some members notwithstanding)....how many remember when John F. Kennedy was running for POTUS and there was a big brouhaha about him being Catholic? It was a huge issue during the campaign, as if being Catholic would somehow lead him to make decisions that were based on Catholic beliefs or that would foster the further development of Catholocism.

It was, to quote Shakespeare, "...much ado about nothing", as is I suspect this angst about Bee-OH. I'm not disputing the fact that Bee-OH is pro-Muslim, but he seems to me to be pro-religion in general.

I just recently called it off with a very nice lady b/c of religious beliefs....she was so adamantly Christian that she believed my Jewish friends would go to hell b/c they didn't believe Christ was the son of God.....my Jewish friends are some of the most gracious individuals I know, they are respectful, display great integrity, I have no doubt they will be rewarded well after they pass over. Religion can be a very powerful force, both positive and negative....it's no surprise Bee-OH's religious beliefs and practices would be called into doubt by those who want to denigrate him.

Cheers from Doug
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Tom,

I guessing you have no direct information about our Presidents religous beliefs and are basing your 'deep rooted belief system' on what you hear from friends and the media.

Surly you must know by now that there are several large groups both in the media and out who will say anything, hurt anyone, even hurt our Country for short term political gain.

I'm afraid you may have fallen victim to their smear campain.
 
Last edited:
This Mosque debate isn't about religious beliefs. It's about an attack on the US by Islamic fundamentalist (which there are one hell of a lot of, I remember the news clips of the cheering on 9/11) and a Islamic fundamentalist that wants to build a mosque in very close proximity to the 9/11 site. Seriously, think about standing at the 9/11 memorial, mourning your loved ones, when a call for prayer comes to your ear. No, not there, plenty of places to build in New York, not there. There is a reason for this location, and it's not a good reason! I talked to the surviving husband of the wife and daughter that were my friends, he is in constant contact with the families of those killed. He and they are enraged by the plan to build this mosque, as Americans, we should be too! It's a matter of honor, honoring those that died.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
and a Islamic fundamentalist that wants to build a mosque in very close proximity to the 9/11 site.
Part of a post by Al

So Al, as I understand it this "Islamic fundamentalist" was so "radical" that he was chosen/veted by your President Bush2 and then sent out as a good will spokesman.
 
Last edited:

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Seriously, think about standing at the 9/11 memorial, mourning your loved ones, when a call for prayer comes to your ear. No, not there, plenty of places to build in New York, not there. There is a reason for this location, and it's not a good reason!

At the risk of playing the Devil's Advocate, Al.....I did just as you suggested, visualized myself standing at GZ (my wife and daughter stayed in the Twin Towers hotel a week before 9/11) and hearing a call to prayer. It was not the immediate gut wrench I expected....possibly for this reason:

When I was in college, my room-mate was a devout church goer and I was not. He was constantly asking me to go to church with him and I finally asked why, what could come of it. His response? "Well, nobody ever prays for anything bad to happen". I had no way to argue with that.....thought about all the prayers I had offered, and realized there had never been a prayer that misfortune befall anyone.

Is this true of the Muslims, too? Do you really think they would pray for the destruction of the U.S. in that mosque, or do you think they would pray for SOMETHING positive (not necessarily related to the U.S., I grant you)? I'd like to think it's not naive to believe that the Muslim population prays for positive things, too......but....

I agree, most whole-heartedly, that this is the wrong place for this mosque. While I did not experience the revulsive feelings when I did as you suggested, I do know that (probably) the majority of the U.S. citizens would. There MUST be a place where this can be built that will not be as aversive to the citizens of our great country as placing it at GZ....that much is clear.

I was thinking about freedom of religion the other day and freedom of speech.....neither is an absolute freedom, it's not OK to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater any more than it is OK for the Mormons to keep multiple wives (in accordance with their religious beliefs). Our country has established limits on religious practice, it seems to me that we MUST, somehow, limit the placement of this mosque to a different place, if for no other reason than to guarantee that the occupants of the mosque will stand less chance of death or injury should some of our citizens decide to take "revenge" into their own hands :thumbsdown: . The mosque will be a target if it is built at GZ, no doubt in my mind.

In the meantime, offer a few of your own prayers that the Muslims will realize the error of their jihaidist philosophies.....only positive can come of that :thumbsup: .

Cheers from Doug
 
Doug, good point.

Other comment: The president has demonstrated and made his comments on the issue. The people believe, not from what is said in the media, but how he acts, and what he says.

The Archbishop of NY and the Governor of NY said they would assist in finding a nuetral location. The Islamic group has not shown any interest in this.

Comment from Allen Hunt, a Georgia left of center radio presenter:

Not surprisingly, President Obama's comments over the weekend about the Ground Zero mosque set off quite a firestorm of reaction. Unfortunately, the president framed the issue as one only of religious freedom when really it is a matter of charity and grace. No one disputes that Muslims have the freedom to build a mosque in New York City. Of course they are free to do so.

However, if the leaders behind the mosque truly desire to demonstrate goodwill, they will voluntarily offer to move to a less controversial location, farther away from the scar/scab that is Ground Zero. Such a move would be charitable and loving. This thoughtful act is much to be preferred over a stubborn forcing of their will and their rights on those who will rightly be distressed that a mosque is not only located in the shadow of Ground Zero but in a building where part of the plane flown by the Islamic terrorist, Mohammed Atta, actually crashed through the roof.

It is the job of planning commissions, zoning boards, and local planners to assess the appropriateness of any construction and its location. Just ask any Christian pastor who has tried to get zoning approval for a new church or ministry facility. I have never met a single pastor, myself included, who got a project approved by the government exactly as it was originally submitted. That is what governments do - decide how much and in what location certain building projects will fit. Governments and planners do that in every situation, it appears, except this one.

Grace and peace,
Allen
 
Last edited:

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
President Obama's comments over the weekend about the Ground Zero mosque
Posted by Domtoni

Domtoni,

I guarantee that the President did not make a comment about the "Ground Zero Mosque" Why do you put words in his mouth, I'm thinking to inflame the one or two people who still believe what you post?

Why do you all keep calling it "Ground Zero". You know very well it is several blocks from "Gound Zero" on the hollowed ground of the closed Burlinton Coat Factory.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
The whole brouhaha about the "Mosque at Ground Zero" is frankly bogus. It has little to do with sacred ground, or sensitive hearts. It does however have everything to do with the exploitation of the sacred and the sensitive for the furtherance of the sacrilegious and the insensitive: the phenomenon of Muslim-bashing that is ravaging our nation today.
The Cordoba House, now Park51, is an old story. In fact, it was reported on in the New York Times and other mainstream media as far back as two years ago. Why the frenzy now?
That's not all: Muslims have been worshipping at Mosque Manhattan a few blocks away from Ground Zero, long before Ground Zero was Ground Zero; in fact, since 1970, before the twin towers were the twin towers.
Part of an article from the Huffinton Post


Why was there not outrage when this was first reported several years ago, you know when Bush was president?

Click on the (Park51) icon, this seems to be a fairly tame plan for a "community Center"

This is starting to look like another missleading, out of context, half truth, diatribe from our friends on the Right.
 
Jim,

Obamas' comments on the mosque YouTube - Obama backs 'Ground Zero' mosque!

and here's the location of the mosque:
GroundZeroMosqueLocation.jpg


I think this is close enough to call it "Ground Zero".

But, if you dont want to refer to it as the "Ground Zero Mosque", we could always say "Victory Mosque".
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
But, if you dont want to refer to it as the "Ground Zero Mosque", we could always say "Victory Mosque".<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
Posed by John

I'm thinging we call it what is, a Community Center, built in lower Manhatton. John Click on the (Park 51) icon a couple of posts up and see what sort of thing that has everyone so inraged.
 
I believe that if this were to be a Christian building, there would be great challenges to a building permit being issued because of the open mental and verbal attack upon Christians in America.

Wow - I would have to greatly disagree with you here. That makes no sense - I think your own fears and prejudices are clouding your judgement. I imagine you follow the teachings of Christ. In this scenario, WWJD? All those wonderful teachings and sayings from long ago that are read every Sunday in churches across this country seem to fly out the window when it comes down to someone like you who has to make that same commitment. What's the point? Your belief system remains solely a belief system until you act on the founding morals and guidelines that your supposedly great religion conveys.

Bigotry will not exactly get us nowhere. In this case it will reverse many triumphs our nation has already achieved and challenges we have overcome.
 
Jim,
You are missing the point once again. (and i think you do this on purpose) This is a problem for not only the evil right wingers (as you refer to them) but has crossed all AMERICAN party lines. The Muslims have chosen to build a mosque, good for them. But any Muslim with half a thought should be sensitive to the timing and general location relative to the feelings of Americans who feel that the radical elements of this religion are building in this location to affront the survivors and create propoganda for the radicals around the world. Whether the Americans who object are right or wrong in this worry is not the point. If a Nazi Skinhead organization (they are 'religious' in their hatred for Jews)was to try and build a club house next to the Holocost Museum, there would be outrage as well. Some things are insensitive in action and the "people" have a "right" as well to object. If you can't understand that simple analogy then you are a lost cause for the human race. The Muslims should build the Mosque elsewhere.
Garry
 
Back
Top