Bicycle riders.

[Pete McCluskey.]

I don't know how many of you ride bicycles, but in OZ at the moment it seems that bicycle riders are a law unto themselves.
They run red lights, take up whole lanes of traffic by riding three and four abreast. A gentle toot of the horn to make them aware you are behind them results in abuse and thrown water bottles. Riding groups are trying to get speed limits reduced to 40km in the cities.
Is this behaviour unique to Australia?

 

[Randy V]

Heck no - it is rampant over here as well... And they will sometimes ride in packs going 10-15 MPH and block an entire lane for miles...

We are required to yield right of way to them and come no closer than 3' from them.

I wrote in to a local news station a few years ago about this and they did a story on it.. I told them that there are bike paths that the state paid 100's of millions to create, but the paths are nearly empty because all of them are in the streets... I mentioned that I had seriously considered jumping the curb and driving on the bike paths because of the lack of traffic there!!! They are constantly Running stop signs, red-lights etc... No regard for the law..

Can you tell you hit one of my HOT buttons??? :furious:

 

[Mike Pass]

Yep! Same arseholes here. Roads when convenient, pavement(sidewalk) when it suits. etc. etc. No driving test or licence. I assume that they don't pay for the roads in Oz as well. They now have helmet cams to record our "road rage" when we react to their appalling road manners!
Cheers
Mike
If you think educationist expensive - try ignorance.

 

[David Morton]

Piss in your windscreen wiper reservoir and then 'clean' your windows each time you pass a cyclist. It sort of gives a feeling of satisfaction.

 

[Jack]

Piss in your windscreen wiper reservoir and then 'clean' your windows each time you pass a cyclist. It sort of gives a feeling of satisfaction.

A true WOGG, thanks David!

 

[Randy V]

Piss in your windscreen wiper reservoir and then 'clean' your windows each time you pass a cyclist. It sort of gives a feeling of satisfaction.

I absolutely LOVE IT!!!

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Piss in your windscreen wiper reservoir and then 'clean' your windows each time you pass a cyclist. It sort of gives a feeling of satisfaction.

Haha and remember to turn the directon of the spray sideways so it gets them not your windscreen. Love it David.
And Randy same here no licence, no registration and we have to pass no closer than a meter as well.

 

[Doug]

I really thought I was hanging with a better bunch of guys.

I'm in the middle of my GT build - 5 years now, and have been an avid cyclist since the mid '70s.

Facts; Cyclists have nearly the same rights to the roadways as vehicles. You can be cited in a vehicle or bicycle for impeding traffic. The number of autos running stop signs and lights far outweigh those cyclists doing the same. When I run a stop sign on my bike, at the most I piss someone off (why, I don't know), but when I run a stop in my vehicle I have the potential to kill someone - big difference.

I pay taxes plenty on the purchase of cycling items to fix roads we all use - I'd venture to say the sales tax on the $100/each tires I put on the $1,000.00 set of wheels comes out to exactly the same as you spend on your car for similar costing items. And, the UPS shipping is all the same and all goes to the place in the end - taxes, highway taxes. Further, there is no mandate for anyone to use bike lanes in any area I know of - fact is, they suck and are a danger to mom's and kids who use them.

I would challenge all of you to this; would your position be the same if your child or grandchild chose to cycle as a form of exercise or transportation and were killed by a guy in a big honking truck or that cute little old lady with the poodle over her shoulder?

I've spent plenty of time in rescue units, and ERs getting put back together so I can hopefully go back to work - let alone ride again. So, I think what we need to do is to accept people's differences in the choices they make and realize a few seconds out of our day is probably time well spent reflecting on what a great country or world we live in where we can all get along and do what we enjoy peacefully.

So, thanks for letting me say that.

Doug

 

[Robert May Eng.]

I really thought I was hanging with a better bunch of guys.

I'm in the middle of my GT build - 5 years now, and have been an avid cyclist since the mid '70s.

Facts; Cyclists have nearly the same rights to the roadways as vehicles. You can be cited in a vehicle or bicycle for impeding traffic. The number of autos running stop signs and lights far outweigh those cyclists doing the same. When I run a stop sign on my bike, at the most I piss someone off (why, I don't know), but when I run a stop in my vehicle I have the potential to kill someone - big difference.

I pay taxes plenty on the purchase of cycling items to fix roads we all use - I'd venture to say the sales tax on the $100/each tires I put on the $1,000.00 set of wheels comes out to exactly the same as you spend on your car for similar costing items. And, the UPS shipping is all the same and all goes to the place in the end - taxes, highway taxes. Further, there is no mandate for anyone to use bike lanes in any area I know of - fact is, they suck and are a danger to mom's and kids who use them.

I would challenge all of you to this; would your position be the same if your child or grandchild chose to cycle as a form of exercise or transportation and were killed by a guy in a big honking truck or that cute little old lady with the poodle over her shoulder?

I've spent plenty of time in rescue units, and ERs getting put back together so I can hopefully go back to work - let alone ride again. So, I think what we need to do is to accept people's differences in the choices they make and realize a few seconds out of our day is probably time well spent reflecting on what a great country or world we live in where we can all get along and do what we enjoy peacefully.

So, thanks for letting me say that.

Doug

Doug I dont think anyone here has anything against responsible cycle riders that abide by the rules of the road. Where it goes wrong is when you get a gaggle of these together, there is nothing worse than being stuck behind half a dozen Lycra clad teletubbies riding three abreast that are totally oblivious to anything around them. Its normally worse after Tour de France has been on the box and all the couch potatoes think they are going to be the next Alberto Contador.

Bob

 

[Jack]

Bob gets it!
Just a little humor there Doug, don't be offended.

 

[Randy V]

Doug - my son is also an avid cyclist and he will also blow stop signs, but only after slowing and checking for traffic etc.. He's responsible enough to know that the streets are public thoroughfares and people use them to get to work, home, gym, etc.. Not everyone on those streets are working with the same timelines and generally you plan your trip to go from point-a to point-b by thinking of the speed limit and traffic. What gets my goad is when they intentionally ride 2 or 3 abreast or more and take up more than half of the driving lanes. Chatting away with one another and completely ignoring the needs of anyone but themselves in the process..
You sound like a responsible rider like my son and I appreciate that...

----

Bob... Agreed... And finally - once Lance Armstrong was exposed as the fraud he is, most of the yellow lycra has disappeared!!! Odd how that worked eh?

 

[Doug S.]

I, too, am an avid bicyclist. I have multiple bicycles, specifically purposed for different activities. What we're talking about here are road bikers.

In the U.S. the bicyclists are by law entitled to the entire lane. This is not an effort to restrict traffic, it is an effort to protect the lives of bicyclists...much like the fact that pedestrians ALWAYS have right of way on a street, even if they are jaywalking. The law requires bicyclists to follow the same traffic laws that apply to cars...including stopping at traffic lights and stop signs. Those who do not are just as subject to citation as are cars who fail to stop, etc.

Responsible cyclists will ride on the right edge of the road...if there is a paved shoulder that is a bicyclist's dream, because they can get well out of the way of unsympathetic traffic. I watched in horror as a huge pickup, one with extended mirrors on each side so that they would have rear visibility when pulling a trailer, ALMOST take the head off one of my girlfriends as we were biking, and she was well to the right of the line that marks the traffic lane. I doubt that driver of the pickup was even aware of how close his mirror came to her head...he certainly did not appear to try to hit her with the mirror, but if he had been another two inches to the right she would probably be pushing up daisies right now.

We bicyclists get very tired of unsympathetic motorists honking at us and screaming at us to get out of the way. I have no problems riding with a group...in fact, that is by far the safest way of riding because it's not that hard to overlook a single rider but a group is hard to miss. As I said, most responsible cyclists will try to get out of the traffic lane to the right so that cars can get by (we all drive cars, too....well, almost all of us, anyway) and we know what a problem getting past bikers can be, but the plain and simple truth is that bicyclists have no responsibility to get to the right because they do have the right to ride anywhere in the lane that they want. I do NOT know any bikers who are so militant that they create a traffic hazard on purpose, but I do know that every time a biker is hit and killed by a motorist in the Houston area there are calls for more biking lanes as well as better enforcement of the bicyclists' rights.

We cyclists NEVER win in a collision with any motor vehicle. The best thing a motorist can do is slow down, give a quick single tap to the horn button to let the cyclist know they are there and want to get past, and wait for the cyclist to find a place where he can pull over safely. For those who choose to put the safety of the bicyclist out of their mind I have no problems with the vehicular homicide charge. There are plenty of Texas Bubbas out there who would just love to take out a few bicyclists, they don't even need to be on the streets, IMHO. I watched once as two drunks in a pickup went hunting for bicyclists. The one in the passenger seat had a baseball bat and when the driver found a cyclist he'd try to get close enough that the passenger could get a swing at the cyclist with that bat. I turned in their license number to the police, never did hear anything more from the police so I have no idea what resolution they reached.

Doug is right, cycles can be very expensive. I probably have $2,000 in my Canondale road bike...only about $500 in my mountain bike. I was run off the road once by a passing motorist and wanted very badly to file a small claims suit against him, the crash in the ditch bent the frame on a very nice bicycle. In the end he offered to pay for the wheel that got bent, but not for a new bike. I figured it was throwing good money after bad to sue him, so I just walked away. I must admit that the gentleman remembered the incident, seemed surprised that he had run me off the road, and seemed genuinely remorseful, he just wasn't ready to pony up for a new frame on such an expensive bike.

Bottom line...everyone has rights...your right to "hog" the road ends when you force me out of the lane to which I am rightfully entitled. I am a responsible bicyclist and try to be no problem to any motorist, but there are times when I have to use the lane of traffic to get past a row of parked cars, that sort of thing, and which of you would like a large lawsuit should you decide to exercise your ability to use a big car to injure a defenseless bicyclist? Is it worth the short wait? Is it worth potentially ending someone's life just because you are angry for a few seconds's delay? Is it worth being charged with vehicular homicide and losing your freedom if found guilty?

I doubt it.

Cheers!

Doug

 

I was a road cycle racer for many years, and while I agree with many of Doug's points, I also see Pete's point as well. When I used to race it was always the back marker's job to call out if cars were approaching from behind and we'd hug the edge of the road until it was past. Likewise, we all obeyed traffic lights and road signs when out training and were generally mindful of other road users. More and more often these days I do see cyclists running red lights and having little regard for others on the road and it infuriates me. Some cyclists give the group as a whole a bad name.

Is it worse than when I was cycling? Yes, I think so, but from what I have observed there are faults on both sides. Motorists and cyclists need to be more aware and show a little more tolerance because, unfortunately, when there is a coming together of car and bike, there is usually only one winner.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Doug I started the thread and I rode bicycles for many years, and this thread is not intended to denigrate cyclists that obey the law and are responsible .
The reason I started it was because I have noticed a change in attitude over the years from cyclists they now seem to think it is their road and don't want to share it with anyone else. Maybe it's the Lycra.
And it seems that it is not restricted to OZ.
As far as your assertion that more cars run red lights than cyclists statistically you may be right because there are more cars on the road. But I bet for want of a better word a per capita basis bicycles would be much more guilty than cars. I really think that bicycle riders should have to get a licence to ride and have to register their bikes. Just like car drivers do.

 

[Randy V]

. When I run a stop sign on my bike, at the most I piss someone off (why, I don't know), but when I run a stop in my vehicle I have the potential to kill someone - big difference.
Doug

I had to address this one separately I'm afraid...
Again - I believe you are responsible and check for traffic and yield right of way to other tradfic in intersections..
We seem to have a deficit of people like you... On my old route to work there are three white bicycles chained to various street signs. Two of them adjacent to intersections. One of them along a narrow part of the road.
The third unfortunatley got collected by a pickup truck pulling an trailer of lawn mowers and such. The truck made it past the rider, the rider was not aware of his surroundings and swerved in behind the truck (witnesses said it looked like the rider was going to make a left turn at an upcoming intersection). He was dragged under the trailer and died shortly after the EMTs arrived.
The other two? One of them blew the stop light and was collected by a car from his right that was driving around a string of cars waiting to turn left. Candle light vigils ensued for the next month with demands for more cyclist awareness and better bike lanes.
The other one blew the stop sign and was run over by an elderly gentleman that was driving into the sun and did not see the sign. Both were wrong. The cyclist died and the elderly gentleman did not, however he was most certainly devastated.. You see, the cyclist may have figured that the motorist was going to stop - so he did not have to.. Another week long candle light vigil ensued and motorists in the area were made to feel like they were evil...
...
Frankly, I'm tired of seeing the white bicycles... I don't want to see cyclists killed or injured.. In Minnesota we have spent mega millions on trails and bike paths exclusively for non motorized traffic. Yet many of those trails and paths go largely un-used. Why? Because they would rather ride in the streets...

Spring time around here is the absolute worst time for cyclists. All the waiting and working out in the gym or on the bikes in the basement on rollers through the long winter are over.. Let's hit the streets!
The streets they are hitting are full of sand and filth from the winter salt and sanding. The roads are crumbling and pot-holes are literally everywhere.. Still the paths will go unused and we will have teams of cyclists that are weaving around pot-holes and cracks in the road - purely oblivious to the traffic around them... More white bicycles will be chained in memorial to street signs. More candle light vigils and angry protests will happen..

I am just sick of it.... Please ride safe and courteously...

 

[Randy V]

Check out the Mid Town Greenway.. Many of these wonderful trails go unused...
Pity...
A member-based group of neighborhoods | Midtown Greenway Coalition

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

This is probably an extreme example of what I'm on about. http://youtu.be/DWBbHF3xqbs

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Speaking from both sides (as an ex racer, current cyclist, and an automobile driver, the issues stated all need to be addressed. Cyclist need to take as little a footprint on the road as possible, be considerate of drivers, don't go ape-shit when someone passes closer than was expected, and don't abuse their privilege or right to the road.

Drivers on the other hand need to be mindful that a majority of cyclists don't have extensive car/bike interface experience, so they get spooked easily. Drivers don't need to be trying to prove a point when someone can get seriously hurt or killed.

Locally, we (cyclist) get our share of abuse, from hit and runs to tacks on the common roads (rural roads that have plenty of room to pass). We also piss of the walkers and runners on the 70 degree winter afternoons when they walk 4 wide on a 6' wide trail, and the only way to pass them is holler out to them that we are passing, and then must do so fairly closely because they feel their right allows that, much like some cyclist feel they can take up an entire lane of traffic because their right allows that.

It's really all about being considerate to the other guy...period. If we do that, we wouldn't have this problem.

 

[Jeff Young]

Whoa...terry nailed it, last sentence.

 

[Mike Pass]

It is indeed about being sensible and considerate.
Unfortunately many people are not which is why we need laws and police to enforce them. In my view anyone who "blows a red light" in any vehicle is an idiot whether they have checked it is clear or not. Imagine if we did this in a car or on a motorbike! Also if one of these "cyclists" hits your vehicle how do you get recompense for the damage. If they just clear off, refuse to give their contact details etc. what do you do then? Even if you get their details you would have to take them to court if they refuse to accept responsibility for their actions. With properly licenced and insured road users this is not an issue.
Cyclists also ride on pavements (sidewalks) as and when it suits them. How do you sort that out when one of these idiots rides into you (or an old lady) as you walk along minding your own business.
I accept that there are many good things about cycling but as ever the idiots ruin it for the many. People by their very nature do crass and unreasonable things. This is an issue that will not resolve itself. I am not a big fan of legislation but something needs to be done.
Cheers
Mike