Chassis Drawings/Blueprints
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Rune
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I belive that there are less then a handfull people world wide that have all the original drawings , and they do not sell a blueprint, they do not even want to talk about it .
So all forum members out there want to build a nice gt40 , go for a replika with a space frame. You will then be able to sit in Your car before You are 6 feet under due to age.
Take this as a good advice from someone that know what kind of work you have up front to build a correct mono.
So all forum members out there want to build a nice gt40 , go for a replika with a space frame. You will then be able to sit in Your car before You are 6 feet under due to age.
Take this as a good advice from someone that know what kind of work you have up front to build a correct mono.
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Hello everyone,
I am just getting interested in building my own car from scratch. I have ideas for the type of drivetrain, suspension, braking system, transmission and engine. My problems are: I cannot draw to save my life, do not have access to CAD programs nor do I have the $$$ to buy any, and I am not that savy in engineering or design specifics, to be able to definatively say: "Yes, my idea will work and be safe under certain loads, etc.."
I also have a few ideas for the body dsign and the chasis/frame. But again I do not know much about engineering or design to know how to design a proper frame or chasis for my car ideas.
Would I be better off using a "donor car" or building from scratch?
I like the GT40 both the origional and the modern versions. I have read all of the posts here in this topic, that is why I decided to ask for advice on my ideas also. Because the one idea I have is very similar to the GT40. Seeing how some have developed the drawings and also have started to mock up the chasis for a GT40 I thought I would see how far they have come along.
Also can anyone offer any advice?
Thank you.
I am just getting interested in building my own car from scratch. I have ideas for the type of drivetrain, suspension, braking system, transmission and engine. My problems are: I cannot draw to save my life, do not have access to CAD programs nor do I have the $$$ to buy any, and I am not that savy in engineering or design specifics, to be able to definatively say: "Yes, my idea will work and be safe under certain loads, etc.."
I also have a few ideas for the body dsign and the chasis/frame. But again I do not know much about engineering or design to know how to design a proper frame or chasis for my car ideas.
Would I be better off using a "donor car" or building from scratch?
I like the GT40 both the origional and the modern versions. I have read all of the posts here in this topic, that is why I decided to ask for advice on my ideas also. Because the one idea I have is very similar to the GT40. Seeing how some have developed the drawings and also have started to mock up the chasis for a GT40 I thought I would see how far they have come along.
Also can anyone offer any advice?
Thank you.
I designed the original ERA monocoque on graph paper and a lot of 3d calculations. (It took about 3 months of work.) But I wouldn't do it that way again.
You can buy an "adequate" 3D CAD program like DesignCad for under $100, or a fancier one like Alibre for under $1000. The hard part is the learning curve for any CAD system.
Stress analysis is a whole 'nuther thing, requiring an experienced professional.
The trick with chassis design is to start with any standard components that will define your suspension mounting locations and build out from there.
You can buy an "adequate" 3D CAD program like DesignCad for under $100, or a fancier one like Alibre for under $1000. The hard part is the learning curve for any CAD system.
Stress analysis is a whole 'nuther thing, requiring an experienced professional.
The trick with chassis design is to start with any standard components that will define your suspension mounting locations and build out from there.
Hello everyone!
I had an idea on how I could refine my idea with a CAD program for now. I would start by build a scaled down model of the frame using either balsa wood, toothpicks, or somethig else that could be easy to use and yet get the design concept idea down.
Then eventually build a small RC car version. Once that is done increase in size to like a go cart size or yard dune buggy type of vehicle to learn how to weld and put the actual pieces of te vehicle together in the proper places. Once that is done, maybe go full scale size.
I know this seems like a lot of work to go through. Would be easier to use a CAD program. I remember someone on a TV program did a vehicle this way a it came out fine. But it took a lot longer than it would have, if they would have had a CAD program.
Then one frame idea I have is similar to how the NASCAR teams have their frames. Another one is a basic ladder frame and then build onto that. The THird idea is a combination of the Rollcage/safetycage frame and basic Ladder frame.
I had an idea on how I could refine my idea with a CAD program for now. I would start by build a scaled down model of the frame using either balsa wood, toothpicks, or somethig else that could be easy to use and yet get the design concept idea down.
Then eventually build a small RC car version. Once that is done increase in size to like a go cart size or yard dune buggy type of vehicle to learn how to weld and put the actual pieces of te vehicle together in the proper places. Once that is done, maybe go full scale size.
I know this seems like a lot of work to go through. Would be easier to use a CAD program. I remember someone on a TV program did a vehicle this way a it came out fine. But it took a lot longer than it would have, if they would have had a CAD program.
Then one frame idea I have is similar to how the NASCAR teams have their frames. Another one is a basic ladder frame and then build onto that. The THird idea is a combination of the Rollcage/safetycage frame and basic Ladder frame.
Ladder stle frame is not a good choice for a hi-performance based vehicles. They flex and twist to much. They are good for pickups or Semi use since they are good for hauling heavy weights but not for a sports car.
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Hello everyone!
2wolves, When I said about the combination of the Rollcage/Safetycage frame and basic ladder frame; I was thinking of the Space Frame Chassis. I could not remember what it was called at the time. To me it looks like it is somewhat a combination of the 2 I mentioned. I did a search today looking up something else and that is when I found what it is really called.
I actually found a cool looking kit car company that will supply you everything you need to build a Super Sports Car except an engine I think. The cost is approx $26000 +/- USD. It is based on a Chevy 350ci engine and a Porche G50 5 spd Transaxle. Here is the main page: Ultima Sports Ltd - Homepage The only draws back that I see are the cockpit/drivers compartment might be a little cramped in the leg & foot area and Noise from the engine. Otherwise I think it is similar to the GT40 and the Chassis/frame design is different between the 2.
I wonder how these 2 cars would compare to the Dodge Interceptor that was in the movie: "The Wraith" ?
2wolves, When I said about the combination of the Rollcage/Safetycage frame and basic ladder frame; I was thinking of the Space Frame Chassis. I could not remember what it was called at the time. To me it looks like it is somewhat a combination of the 2 I mentioned. I did a search today looking up something else and that is when I found what it is really called.
I actually found a cool looking kit car company that will supply you everything you need to build a Super Sports Car except an engine I think. The cost is approx $26000 +/- USD. It is based on a Chevy 350ci engine and a Porche G50 5 spd Transaxle. Here is the main page: Ultima Sports Ltd - Homepage The only draws back that I see are the cockpit/drivers compartment might be a little cramped in the leg & foot area and Noise from the engine. Otherwise I think it is similar to the GT40 and the Chassis/frame design is different between the 2.
I wonder how these 2 cars would compare to the Dodge Interceptor that was in the movie: "The Wraith" ?
Adem, are you still working on the model. I got to say it's the best I've seen. Did you get design drawings yet. let me know, I am still interested.
Regards,
I seems almost a year since anyone has posted on this thread. I am wondering if any space frame chassis drawings with correct measurements has surfaced. It seems to me that there is a market for someone to build (or in kit form) a space frame for those with shallow pockets but deep desire to build a GT40. true
Hello true!
I agree with you, that there is a market for someone to build space frames for those with "shallow pockets", but with a deep desire to build a GT40.
Some problems I foresee are:
1) Having/getting enough orders to make it worth while.
2) With the cost of materials increasing and the cost for everything else also increasing, would the cost of making it and the price of the finished product be low enough for the prospective market and also the price be high enough to make a profit.
3) Would the cost of shipping be prohibitive to the customer or would customer have to pick it up?
4) Liability concerns.
5) would customer be able to fit any engine into frame? also what transmission options would the customer have or could be fitted into the frame? etc..
6) would the frames be a standard configuration or would customer have options available?
Those questions/problems/concerns are what I foresee for whoever would tackle a "low budget" space frame for the GT40 builder. Yes, there many other questions that would have to be answered before, during and after the design and manufacture of a "low budget" space frame and then put on the market.
It is a good idea not only for the GT40 but for other vehicles as well.
I agree with you, that there is a market for someone to build space frames for those with "shallow pockets", but with a deep desire to build a GT40.
Some problems I foresee are:
1) Having/getting enough orders to make it worth while.
2) With the cost of materials increasing and the cost for everything else also increasing, would the cost of making it and the price of the finished product be low enough for the prospective market and also the price be high enough to make a profit.
3) Would the cost of shipping be prohibitive to the customer or would customer have to pick it up?
4) Liability concerns.
5) would customer be able to fit any engine into frame? also what transmission options would the customer have or could be fitted into the frame? etc..
6) would the frames be a standard configuration or would customer have options available?
Those questions/problems/concerns are what I foresee for whoever would tackle a "low budget" space frame for the GT40 builder. Yes, there many other questions that would have to be answered before, during and after the design and manufacture of a "low budget" space frame and then put on the market.
It is a good idea not only for the GT40 but for other vehicles as well.
GTS Tuning / GT Forte are selling chassis plans for £60
GTs40 Chassis Drawing Pack
Presumably the same as my chassis (see the my build thread).
GTs40 Chassis Drawing Pack
Presumably the same as my chassis (see the my build thread).
From my point of view you kind of have to be careful what you wish for. In the GT40 market it's relatively easy to undercut everyone considerably as the current manufacturers charge pretty well for what they offer. It appears that this is bad for the consumer but actually experience in the '7' end of the kit car market shows that this doesn't end up working well for everyone involved.
The GT40 is one of the only kit cars you can build that will hold its value and that value will be higher than or approx. the same as the build cost. That's partly due to the cost of the kits and their rariety.
Also as a manufacturer we have to be able to provide customer service beyond just the sales of the kit and components. We have to be on hand to help with build issues etc. The less you pay for a kit the busier the manufacturer must be to make the same money and the less time they have to service customers needs. The 7 market is so cut throat and busy, that most manufacturers can't realistically meet the expectations of the customer. The cheaper the kit the worse the customer service.
In terms of the chassis, any reduction in cost would actually be a relatively small percentage of the overall build cost, and i don't therefore think it would make enough of a difference to radically change the number of people able to afford to buy and build one.
I'm a great supporter of the scratch builder, because that's how i started, and i learnt a lot and really enjoyed it. My experience is that most people who start to build their own chassis' give up and buy one or stop completely. I still think its a valuable exercise to try and make your own and learn those skills.
I really thought that the big market for me would be the budget end, 7 builders looking for a new challenge etc. As it happens i've been really surprised by the attitude of the people who have enquired to date. The large majority seem prepared to do the build properly with much less regard for cost than i would at first have imagined. A lot of people aren't interested in the starter kit, wanting more components to get on with the build than are included.
In summary i believe that for a customer it's better to focus on cost effectiveness than bottom line cost. What will form the basis of the car you want to build, and protect your investment, and provide you with the help you need to complete it. If you want to really cut the cost of a build then you just need to be patient and keep an eye out on eBay and this forum etc for bargain parts. In the long run i think this will save you more money than can be realistically saved on my chassis cost.
D.
The GT40 is one of the only kit cars you can build that will hold its value and that value will be higher than or approx. the same as the build cost. That's partly due to the cost of the kits and their rariety.
Also as a manufacturer we have to be able to provide customer service beyond just the sales of the kit and components. We have to be on hand to help with build issues etc. The less you pay for a kit the busier the manufacturer must be to make the same money and the less time they have to service customers needs. The 7 market is so cut throat and busy, that most manufacturers can't realistically meet the expectations of the customer. The cheaper the kit the worse the customer service.
In terms of the chassis, any reduction in cost would actually be a relatively small percentage of the overall build cost, and i don't therefore think it would make enough of a difference to radically change the number of people able to afford to buy and build one.
I'm a great supporter of the scratch builder, because that's how i started, and i learnt a lot and really enjoyed it. My experience is that most people who start to build their own chassis' give up and buy one or stop completely. I still think its a valuable exercise to try and make your own and learn those skills.
I really thought that the big market for me would be the budget end, 7 builders looking for a new challenge etc. As it happens i've been really surprised by the attitude of the people who have enquired to date. The large majority seem prepared to do the build properly with much less regard for cost than i would at first have imagined. A lot of people aren't interested in the starter kit, wanting more components to get on with the build than are included.
In summary i believe that for a customer it's better to focus on cost effectiveness than bottom line cost. What will form the basis of the car you want to build, and protect your investment, and provide you with the help you need to complete it. If you want to really cut the cost of a build then you just need to be patient and keep an eye out on eBay and this forum etc for bargain parts. In the long run i think this will save you more money than can be realistically saved on my chassis cost.
D.
I seriously considered doing a scratch build but I figured that in the end I wasn't actually going to be saving enough for it to be worth while, especially considering the time it would take and chance of giving up.
I was admittedly going to cheat significantly and take the route KVA, KCC and others did and take the suspension setup/brakes/steering off a donor car (an RX-8 in my case), copy the mount point locations to either a space frame or aluminium honeycomb monocoque and start from there.
I bought a welder and started practising. I bought a chop-off saw, I bought books on suspension and building your own cars. I got as far as a CAD model with a few parts bought, spent ages looking through the build logs (for example) the GT90 scratch build and other scratch builders and realised that I was probably looking at 5-10 years *just* to do the chassis/bodywork and *then* I'd have to do the rest! While I could make some savings costs on a space frame the bodywould would need a substantial amount of extras in plywood, foam, filler, fibreglass (for the mold) etc.
Very simply I couldn't make a set of bodywork from scratch as cheaply as they can be bought and the chassis was only going to be a smidge cheaper.
At which point I discovered GTS Tuning's offering and after obtaining permission
decided to go ahead and the rest is history.
I'm still likely to be trawling ebay for bits (and will see which of the RX-8 bits I haven't yet sold fit[1]), will be making a number of bits rather than buy but in the end I see it as a trade off between cost and time, spend money or spend time, which one you spend is up to you.
Good luck to anyone that attempts a scratch build, at some point I might tidy up my RX-8 based chassis plans[2] to fit the GTs40 bodywork and post them but I wouldn't hold your breath!
D
[1] Things like the 323mm brake discs for example.
[2] While waiting for stuff to arrive I also created a model of the GT Forte GTs40 chassis but quite frankly as I've paid for the real physical thing and the plans aren't unreasonably priced I'm not sharing it with anyone who hasn't also bought one.
I was admittedly going to cheat significantly and take the route KVA, KCC and others did and take the suspension setup/brakes/steering off a donor car (an RX-8 in my case), copy the mount point locations to either a space frame or aluminium honeycomb monocoque and start from there.
I bought a welder and started practising. I bought a chop-off saw, I bought books on suspension and building your own cars. I got as far as a CAD model with a few parts bought, spent ages looking through the build logs (for example) the GT90 scratch build and other scratch builders and realised that I was probably looking at 5-10 years *just* to do the chassis/bodywork and *then* I'd have to do the rest! While I could make some savings costs on a space frame the bodywould would need a substantial amount of extras in plywood, foam, filler, fibreglass (for the mold) etc.
Very simply I couldn't make a set of bodywork from scratch as cheaply as they can be bought and the chassis was only going to be a smidge cheaper.
At which point I discovered GTS Tuning's offering and after obtaining permission
decided to go ahead and the rest is history.I'm still likely to be trawling ebay for bits (and will see which of the RX-8 bits I haven't yet sold fit[1]), will be making a number of bits rather than buy but in the end I see it as a trade off between cost and time, spend money or spend time, which one you spend is up to you.
Good luck to anyone that attempts a scratch build, at some point I might tidy up my RX-8 based chassis plans[2] to fit the GTs40 bodywork and post them but I wouldn't hold your breath!
D
[1] Things like the 323mm brake discs for example.
[2] While waiting for stuff to arrive I also created a model of the GT Forte GTs40 chassis but quite frankly as I've paid for the real physical thing and the plans aren't unreasonably priced I'm not sharing it with anyone who hasn't also bought one.
my experience is a little unrelated to complete kit cars, and more to do with custom parts for conversions in existing models etc, but generally speaking, i find those folk on the budget route tend to want to do everything to a budget, which means what ever engine they can get cheapest, whatever suspension, whatever 2nd hand pedal boxthey dug up etc...
...which is a PITA when trying to design a std 'kit' as everyone wants their own super budget options, and youll never make a single kit to suit ever possible option that the budgeteer seeks.
IMHO the only budgeteer that can make such a project as a gt40 a go-er is the one whos happy to do a lot of the work and research themselves, and in such cases they dont usually need a kit!
cheers
ed
(ps, im one of those diy types, and will build my own chassis, but not for a budget (though thats a bonus) but more for size (im 6'4" 110kg 245lbs) car weight (under 1000kg wet) modern (stolen) suspension geometry, and an engine gearbox combo thats cheap, and contains losts of fasts. i have no desire to register this, its just a track toy, id just like it to look cool (always wanted a gt40, so why not skin it like one!)
...which is a PITA when trying to design a std 'kit' as everyone wants their own super budget options, and youll never make a single kit to suit ever possible option that the budgeteer seeks.
IMHO the only budgeteer that can make such a project as a gt40 a go-er is the one whos happy to do a lot of the work and research themselves, and in such cases they dont usually need a kit!
cheers
ed
(ps, im one of those diy types, and will build my own chassis, but not for a budget (though thats a bonus) but more for size (im 6'4" 110kg 245lbs) car weight (under 1000kg wet) modern (stolen) suspension geometry, and an engine gearbox combo thats cheap, and contains losts of fasts. i have no desire to register this, its just a track toy, id just like it to look cool (always wanted a gt40, so why not skin it like one!)
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David
I hope the drawings are not the same as your chassis for Darrens sake.
Further to a telephone conversation with Darren our copyright Lawyer is already drawing up a letter to send to GTS tuning.
Andy
I hope the drawings are not the same as your chassis for Darrens sake.
Further to a telephone conversation with Darren our copyright Lawyer is already drawing up a letter to send to GTS tuning.
Andy
Hi Andy,
You were asked by forum moderators to keep your comments off the forum and to deal with me directly.
Further to our telephone conversation, what happened to the list of 21 items that are supposedly identical? Still haven't received them.
If your lawyer reckons you have a case against me i suggest you get a new lawyer before you spend any more money. Check out the details for Copyright on the Governments Intellectual Property Office website.
Oh and by the way, thanks for the continued free advertising! All your comments work as brilliant adverts for me.
You were asked by forum moderators to keep your comments off the forum and to deal with me directly.
Further to our telephone conversation, what happened to the list of 21 items that are supposedly identical? Still haven't received them.
If your lawyer reckons you have a case against me i suggest you get a new lawyer before you spend any more money. Check out the details for Copyright on the Governments Intellectual Property Office website.
Oh and by the way, thanks for the continued free advertising! All your comments work as brilliant adverts for me.
Darren
Legal letters take time to draught.
You will be receiving a letter and we will be taking action.
Andy
Legal letters take time to draught.
You will be receiving a letter and we will be taking action.
Andy
