Climate change

[domtoni]

Keith I agree with you. Sure Jeff's arguments are good, well supported to his point. No problem with that. It reads well and sounds very convincing.

But as you say Keith, the world has always undergone numerous changes, and one of the things I saw come through in the last few days was this (sorry I can't put my finger on the source):
More energy is released in one day in a hurricane (no mention of the strength of said hurricane) than the USA uses in a year.

To me that means that: Yes man is influencing the planet, but the forces of nature (some of which we know and some which we don't know - speaking of being not part of the research community) are far greater, can do more to destroy the planet in a very short time than what mankind can do in a century (with the exception of the atomic bomb).

 

[Keith]

I would like to point out that I was in no way dissing Jeff's post or the contents of it, which I found interesting - merely pointing out that statistics often muddy the waters because you can make them tell whatever story you wish. I believe it comes down to trust and the so called "experts" have lost that for the time being, and I'm glad, because it will mean MORE informed debate, not less (as we would have had if the politicians and lying research funding hungry scumbags had their sorry way)

I also find it interesting that Americans never mention the one natural feature in their territory that is not only overdue for an appearance, but when (not if) it appears could finally finally answer the paradox of climate change and Homo Sapiens part in it

I refer, of course, to Yellowstone.

 

[domtoni]

Keith, being of Yank extraction, Yellowstone is the home to Old Faithful. Never have I heard it mentioned that a gyser or numerous gysers could bring about our end.

Can you shed more light on this?

 

[Keith]

When viewed from the air, Yellowstone National Park takes on a far more sinsiter appearance than at ground level. That it is an ancient volcano is not in doubt but no-one has ever found the "cone". That is because much of the National Park IS the cone and thus it is the worlds largest ACTIVE volcano, in fact technically, it is a Super Volcano which, on a previous eruption 600,000 years ago plunged the earth into an ice age.

It has been fairly regular in the past and is now overdue for another appearance.

If it does go, you can kiss your ass goodbye my friend where ever you are in the World and any further discussion about mans involvement in climate change will be purely academic.

Armageddon Online - Yellowstone Park is a Super Volcano - an eruption would destroy America

 

[domtoni]

Interesting point Keith. If we are now 40K years past 600K for its regular eruption, then who knows when it will happen. Not sure how good science is today at predicting volcanic activity.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

When viewed from the air, Yellowstone National Park takes on a far more sinsiter appearance than at ground level. That it is an ancient volcano is not in doubt but no-one has ever found the "cone". That is because much of the National Park IS the cone and thus it is the worlds largest ACTIVE volcano, in fact technically, it is a Super Volcano which, on a previous eruption 600,000 years ago plunged the earth into an ice age.

It has been fairly regular in the past and is now overdue for another appearance.

If it does go, you can kiss your ass goodbye my friend where ever you are in the World and any further discussion about mans involvement in climate change will be purely academic.

Armageddon Online - Yellowstone Park is a Super Volcano - an eruption would destroy America

I need to finish my SLC, I'd be pissed if I never got to drive it!

 

[domtoni]

How soon Al will the SLC be done? Just curious, but what was the Kirkham like to drive?

 

[Keith]

Interesting point Keith. If we are now 40K years past 600K for its regular eruption, then who knows when it will happen. Not sure how good science is today at predicting volcanic activity.

Not very good if Mt St Helens is anything to go by... :worried:

 

[domtoni]

As noted previously, natural disasters pale mankinds efforts to change things.

Just look at what the earth quake did to l'Aquila in Italy, Haiti, the tsunami in South East Asia, New Orleans.

I just hope Al gets his SLC running in time !!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

How soon Al will the SLC be done? Just curious, but what was the Kirkham like to drive?

This year I hope. A lot better than an original, but with a 90" wheelbase and 717hp with 680 ft lbs of torque, a tad insane! A great viagra supplement!

 

[domtoni]

Al, no wonder that TUV guy got in trouble.

Back to climate change.

I was out with my friends from the Friday night beer drinking society, and one of our colleagues is a retired chemist, and ran a 5000 person company. He said the following about CO2 gas:
1. It is the heaviest of gases and is heavier than air. CO2 does not rise but falls to the ground.
2. The biggest producers of CO2 gas is the human species.
3. Rather than global warming being the cause of our demise, the cause will be suffocation.
4. Biggest problem according to him with regard to CO2 increases is the forest devestation of the past 30 years.

Make sense?

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Al, no wonder that TUV guy got in trouble.

Back to climate change.

I was out with my friends from the Friday night beer drinking society, and one of our colleagues is a retired chemist, and ran a 5000 person company. He said the following about CO2 gas:
1. It is the heaviest of gases and is heavier than air. CO2 does not rise but falls to the ground.
2. The biggest producers of CO2 gas is the human species.
3. Rather than global warming being the cause of our demise, the cause will be suffocation.
4. Biggest problem according to him with regard to CO2 increases is the forest devestation of the past 30 years.

Make sense?

I knew CO2 was heavier than air but never thought of it, that alone blows CO2 screwing up the atmosphere out of the water. I wonder what the PPM is now compared to 50 years ago? And what exactly does a raised level of CO2 do to change the temperature?

 

[colin artus]

No:
1) CO2 does not simply fall to the ground. Afterall water is heavier than air but that does not stop millions of tons of it from floating about above us.
2) About 3% of the total atmospheric CO2 has an anthropogenic source.
3) CO2 in the atmosphere is currently 380 ppm. CO2 becomes dangerous to human respiration at levels above 50,000 ppm. In general C02 levels have declined over the very long term as CO2 is sequestered to sedimentary rocks.
4) CO2 is a plant fertiliser; more CO2 equals faster growing plants ( with the proviso that other requisites are not in limiting supply). This is why commercial greenhouses raise CO2 levels to 2-5000ppm to promote growth.

 

[domtoni]

Colin, interesting point.

1. So where does CO2 go if it is not beneath us? Are you saying it is in the air? My pal suggested we would sufficate rather than die of heat.
2. OK on the 3% content in the atmosphere, but would planting more trees solve the problem? My friend said that CO2 is absorbed by the trees from the bottom of the plant rather than through the top of the tree down. Someone today also said that plancton is a major converter of CO2 into oxygen, but with a 2 degree (presumably centegrade) rise in sea temps, this conversion has diminshed. Any truth?
3. If the total content of 380ppm and the danger level is 50,000, we are some 0.76% on the way to the danger area. Are you saying that sedimentary rock, those made from deposits of sand etc, absorb CO2?
4. If commercial greenhouses raise CO2 up to 5000, that is over 10x higher than the earth's current level.

If I understand your point, you pretty much confirm what my pal said last night. Correct me if wrong.

 

[Scott Calabro]

Uh Oh .....

Pajamas Media Climategate Meets the Law: Senator Inhofe to Ask for DOJ Investigation (Pajamas Media/PJTV Exclusive)

 

[Howard Jones]

Isn't it funny that "global warming" got changed to "climate change" when it didn't get hot?

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Isn't it funny that "global warming" got changed to "climate change" when it didn't get hot?

It seems that any excuse will do. "The record snows and cold weather were caused by polar bears falling from the sky and susequent snow going into the air from the impact and being borne south on co2 laden air which cause abnormal snowfall, yeah, yeah, that's the ticket"

 

[domtoni]

Good points. If the Democratic congress won't do anything now, we just have to wait until after November 2010 before we can start the process !!

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Uh Oh .....

Pajamas Media Climategate Meets the Law: Senator Inhofe to Ask for DOJ Investigation (Pajamas Media/PJTV Exclusive)

Good for you Senator Inhofe! Al Gore to testify? I'd like to see that.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Al Gore is presently wetting himself!