cooper piston rings

[Scott t]

So, Lani, car gt40p 1098 has been in the process of awakening after 28 years of sleep. We were to test her/shake her down last week, however we ran into some concerns regarding the engine and now it is out and at a race engine shop. As they began to take her apart, she has a Boss 302 4 bolt main block, etc , but she also has Cooper piston rings on the top. Does anyone make those dudes there in the UK or over here in USA?

Scott t

 

[Hans]

Piston rings off Cooper?
I only know Cooper rings as seals

 

[Scott t]

Nop, they actually sit in a grove on top of the piston, in addition to the seals. Apparently rare......

 

[Mike Pass]

If they are the sealing rings that sit in machined grooves in the block and head they are called Wills rings in the UK. They are sealed copper tubes in the form of rings and are filled with nitrogen at high pressure. When the head is bolted down they take up the shape of the grooves and form a very reliable cylinder seal. We used to use them on Imp race engines.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Hans]

Can you post a picture
I never see Cooper pistonrings

 

[Andy Green]

Hi,
Wills rings aren't copper, they are steel. I've never heard of copper being used in conjunction with piston rings. However it used to be common practice to cut the head or block to take a copper wire. This would then be used to increase the clamping force on the sealing edge of the head gasket
Any pictures of this finding?
Regards,
Andy

 

[Ed McClements]

If they are the sealing rings that sit in machined grooves in the block and head they are called Wills rings in the UK. They are sealed copper tubes in the form of rings and are filled with nitrogen at high pressure. When the head is bolted down they take up the shape of the grooves and form a very reliable cylinder seal. We used to use them on Imp race engines.
Cheers
Mike

Mike knows what he's talking about...here's an Imp head, machined to take Wills rings:-

And Trelleborg, who make a range of seals for high-pressure environments, say this:-

Funny thing is, I've seen them referred to as Cooper rings, too. Maybe an earlier name?

Atlas makes them:-

Coopers Rings | Copper Head Gasket

Atlas Gaskets: manufacturers of high quality, specialised coopers rings. Specialist gasket makers of high performance copper head gasket for vintage autos motorcycles & stationary engines.

www.atlas-gaskets.net

 

[Scott t]

the two pics are correct, a small grove basically at the top of the piston and a round metal ring. This engine was built by Stuart at Mathwall for Peter Thorp's car. Some very unique bit's from the day they tell me and we are going to now freshen up. Atlas looks like the dudes, thank you all.

 

[Hans]

the two pics are correct, a small grove basically at the top of the piston and a round metal ring. This engine was built by Stuart at Mathwall for Peter Thorp's car. Some very unique bit's from the day they tell me and we are going to now freshen up. Atlas looks like the dudes, thank you all.

That is cilinder head and engine block not pistons
Cooper rings is normal cooper wire hammerd into the groove
Real race engine shop know that

 

[colin artus]

These rings were fitted back in the day because of repeated failure of the head gaskets then fitted. This was blamed on the different materials used in head and block , the Weslake heads being one of the first instances of an aluminium head for a Ford V8. Head gasket tech has been greatly improved since then so these rings are really a fix for a past problem and the need for continuous running for 24 hrs.

 

[JimmyMac]

Cooper rings were made by Cooper for the aircraft industry in the UK "when we had one" in the 1960s.
They are tubular and gas filled to flex under compression. They are not the wire insert groove type used by a lot of rodders.

Scott, I suggest that you contact Mathwall directly for information on these.
Also, they will still have the records and full build sheet for your engine if it is marked with an ME number. I did this with my Cooper fitted race engine and they gave me the original build sheet when they rebuilt my heads.

 

[Bill Kearley]

Yup, a compression seal ring in this part of the world. most built into the head gasket if not a grooved block. Jimmy, do you have Boss 429 rings?

 

[JimmyMac]

Afraid not Bill.
Will let you if I come across any.

Stay well.

 

[JimmyMac]

Bill
I have seen some 429 ones.
Check your message box.

 

[Bill Kearley]

Jimmy, last and only time I rebuilt a Boss 429 was in the 70s. A 69 engine with all the o rings and seals. Cool looking engine. I had a chance to buy a 1970 Boss 429 Mustang in about 1974 for $ 3000.00 but had just bought a 70 Boss 302 a week before.

 

[Jac Mac]

So, Lani, car gt40p 1098 has been in the process of awakening after 28 years of sleep. We were to test her/shake her down last week, however we ran into some concerns regarding the engine and now it is out and at a race engine shop. As they began to take her apart, she has a Boss 302 4 bolt main block, etc , but she also has Cooper piston rings on the top. Does anyone make those dudes there in the UK or over here in USA?

Scott t

Boss 302 block will likely have valve clearance notch at top of bore, check your casting numbers to identify, if so be sure to check position of top ring to ensure it is below that notch at TDC. Given the description I think your Block might be a pre Boss 'X' casting for use with Windsor style heads only .

 

[Bill Kearley]

A 69/70 Boss block can be cut for ring installation. Seals can and are often made buy the engine builder. Gasket materials have come a long way since 1970. Are the blocks down under different?

 

[Jac Mac]

302 Boss Blocks are same as the US ones, no down under 'clever' castings back then , remember the first/early Boss 302 had larger inlet valves, block/head deck surfaces/castings had round coolant passages which allowed for easier o-ring placement and dry deck provision. Even the so-called Aussie Cleveland Blocks were cast in the USA then shipped to OZ for machine work, then returned to USA for Nascar use, Then the OZ Touring Car boys found out about them, not sure whether they collected air points or just went missing from the machine line after that.

 

[Scott t]

so to add to the data, Stuart, formerly a owner of Mathwall, who built the engine, personally built this engine, I do have the build sheet etc. The authenticity of this is directly from him,

I am sure I will bugger this up...Original GT stock Stuart Mathiesen personally obtained from John Wyer/ Etheridge/Gurney when the race program ended. block 4 bolt main Boss 302 made for the GT race program. Indy GT40/ Ford re-sized rods to take standard bearing, Cosworth steel Crank shaft cross drilled specifically for the Ford GT 40 program, Ford GT SK 42228 Weslake pistons, Gurney Weslake heads that ran at Lemans, Camshaft Mathwall, IDA weber carbs, compression 10.0 to 1, dyno at 420 BHP.........now I bet you folks are naked, doing bad things in front of the computer etc.....


now as to these cooper ring thingies, I needs me some dem dere things, anyone happen to have say like 8 just hanging out in a garage?


Scott t, the curator of Lani.

 

[Ian Anderson]

I tried Atlas for you, but they are not open Saturday.

would you like me to try again on Monday, at least I am on the right time zone!

ian