Fling SLC Build Thread

[Ken Roberts]

Have you read of any problems w/ the aeromotive quick connect? i'm using it and havn't had any issues (yet....). All the failed reports seem to be of the Russel model.

The Aeromotive quick connect should be fine. The original "Russel" model was the type that was blowing off under pressure. All of those types of fuel rail fittings are aluminum while the Swagelok is stainless steel and rated for 2000psi. In a serious collision I would take the stainless fitting over the aluminum fitting.

 

[Michael Fling]

I will visit the Swagelok people once the car arrives and go that direction. Thanks for the reminder- I forgot about that post. Do you run Swagelok fittings on the entire fuel system? Are there other systems or places you would recommend Swagelok fittings? Ken- I love the idea of the transducer to the in-cockpit pressure gauge. Pics and any pertinent info would be helpful. Since the WIX is a combo regulator/filter, is there another place you recommend placing an in-line filter? I am sure you don't have a job with anything better to do. LOL. I am laying here in bed with pneumonia, so I have a few days to read and learn more! Could be dangerous...

Are most builder flipping the fuel rails? I assume this is done to simply shorten the amount of fuel line...

 

[Michael Fling]

Fuel tank... in line filter... Walbo VPN GSL392 Fuel Pump... To Surge Tank... WIX all in one Filter/Regulator 495-33737... Goes two directions #1 Fuel Rails... #2 Sends fuel back to the tank.

I forgot 1 small item... Bosh 044 high pressure pump between surge tank and filter/regulator. :shrug:

 

[Ken Roberts]

Yes most builders flip the fuel rails so that the inlet is on the drivers side. It makes for the most efficient path to the surge tank.

I am running nylon fuel lines (like most production cars) for most of my fuel system. Only after the Wix filter/reg do I run Swagelok fittings and stainless braided Teflon hose.

My fuel setup is completely different than most. I have a production style of fuel module/bucket in my fuel tank with a special Walbro 255 fuel pump mounted in the bucket. It's almost as if the surge tank is in my main fuel tank. This intank fuel pump has two outlets. The main outlet provides fuel to the external Wix filter/regulator. The second outlet is very small and routes fuel to the bottom of the bucket where it spins a jet pump. This jet pump sucks fuel from the bottom of the tank and moves it into the bucket where it keeps it overflowing at all times. Even when the engine is shut down the bucket is kept full by means of a check valve. The Wix filter/regulator returns the unused fuel back to the bucket as well. As long as there is fuel at the bottom of the tank the bucket is always kept full. If the fuel sloshes to one side for an extended length of time and the jet pump is unable to bring fuel into the bucket the fuel will then be used up in the bucket. Keep in mind that unused fuel returning from the Wix filter/regulator is also filling the bucket. Almost all production cars use this type of fuel delivery now.

Your last post Michael is how most route their surge tank. You might want to return the fuel back to the surge tank instead of the main tank from the Wix filter/regulator.

I personally like the Wix fuel/regulator because it "kills two birds with one stone" and is very reasonably priced but if you are going with 600hp or more I don't think that size of regulator will be adequate.

As long as you place a filter before the low pressure pump then you are good to go! I will post pictures shortly of the mods done to the fuel rails for a transducer.

Most manufactures of fuel pressure gauges like those attached to the regulator say they should only be used for initial adjustment of the fuel pressure. They do not recommend that they be left attached. If you do buy one make sure it's from a well known "quality" company. If it leaks it could cause a fire. Maybe they are told to say that by their lawyers for liability reasons.

Personally I like to watch my fuel pressure while driving. With a transducer the fuel pressure is picked and converted to an electrical signal at the fuel rails. No worrying about running a fuel line to the gauge inside the cab.

Hope you have a speedy recovery Michael!

 

[Michael Fling]

Interesting set up. Ken- I really do appreciate you taking the time to help. I am beginning to understand it a little better. Now I just have to pay for it. I spoke with Summit tech today who conveyed some of the same concerns you expressed- i.e. not leaving fuel pressure gauges in place except for tuning.

Remember what I said in the beginning of my build thread... A build thread for dummies. So here is how I have decided to go:

1.Fuel tank…-6AN with 3/8” Teflon lined braided SS line goes to…

2. Summit Racing Inline Billet Fuel Filters SUM-230118R, Inline Mount, Billet Aluminum, red, 100 Microns, -8 AN Inlet/Outlet, Each SUM-230118r. This fuel filter allows for excellent flow. A 6/8 reducer will need to be on the filter as it is 8AN. It then goes to…

3. Walbro High-Pressure Inline Fuel Pumps GSL392, Electric, External, High Pressure, 255 lph,VPN-GSL392.

*I have been back and forth about having a fuel pressure gauge after the pump. My concern is if I spring a leak, I’m not digging the outcome. If I ran one, it would be…

4. Auto Gage, Fuel Pressure, 0-60 psi, 1 1/2 in., Analog, liquid filled, Mechanical, ATM-2176. It will work off of resistance, so if the engine is at idle, it will show actual pressure. When throttle is applied the psi will go down on the gauge as resistance is reduced. Then the next destination is to the factory supplied surge tank.

5.The surge tank should be mounted above the height of the final pump to the rails. This is important so that gravity can do its thing. The surge tank feeds to the Bosche fuel pump.

6. Bosch 044, Electric, 200 lph, External, Inline, Gasoline, Universal BCH-61944. After further investigation, it is actually 300 lph (even though it is listed on Summitt as 200 lph). From there it is off to another filter…

7. Fuel Filter, Inline Mount, Aluminum, Red, 40 Microns, -6 AN Male Inlet/Outlet, SUM-230100. Now on to the regulator…

8. Aeromotive A1000-6 Injected Bypass Regulators 13109 Fuel Pressure Regulator, 30-70 psi, Clear and Red Anodized, Universal, AEI-13109. I had considered the WIX all in one regulator/filter. While it saves $$ negating the expense of the extra filter etc., my concern is that it is not adjustable. Apparently, it regulates pressure to approximately 58 psi and flow rate cannot be changed. Additionally, I wanted a way to monitor pressure while in motion. Thus…

9. Auto Meter Ultra-Lite Analog Gauges 4371. This fits into the regulator port and carries an electrical signal to a gauge that is in the cockpit. My thinking is that now I can see fuel pressure while in motion, yet not have as much a concern for fire if analog gauges are left in place and they spring a leak. If an analog gauge was to be used here, it would be Autogage Analog Gauges 2177, Fuel Pressure, 0-100 psi, 1 1/2 in., Analog, liquid filled, Mechanical. Exiting the regulator, lines will go back to the surge tank or to the fuel rails.

10. Excess fuel is returned from the regulator back into the surge tank. The surge tank can then have overflow returned to the main tank.

11.The connection to the rail will not be with an AN fitting, but instead with Swagelok part number is #SS-600-6-6AN. Again, this reduces the chances of leakage under pressure…

12. The fuel rail will be reversed so it is on the driver’s side.

Also, I would like to give thanks to Fran for giving me direction. I feel like I have overcome a hurtle in my endeavor. I feel like I take a lot from people on the forum without being able to give much back. I hope my specifics on my planning and build can be helpful for someone else...

 

[Ken Roberts]

You really don't need a high pressure 255 pump from the tank to surge tank. A low pressure pump with 190 rating will be more than enough. Remember it's almost free flowing without regulation. Plus you won't have as much current draw with a lower flowing pump.

Also try and get a second fuel filter with a lower rating. 40 microns is a bit high.

It will take a bit of looking around but try and get the first filter with 6AN fittings. The less number of connections/adapters the better in the long run.

 

[Michael Fling]

Thanks Ken- I am going with the Facet Duralift, https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/p...gle&utm_medium=productsearch&utm_campaign=gps. It has a pre filter, which simplifies $$ a little. Should do the trick going from the main to the surge.

 

[Michael Fling]

Can anyone help me with the width of the roof inlet at its widest point (where the inlet meets the roof at the most forward position)? Thanks...

 

[Ken Roberts]

Can anyone help me with the width of the roof inlet at its widest point (where the inlet meets the roof at the most forward position)? Thanks...

The cut out can be made up to 13" at the roof line. My cut out is 12 1/2".

 

[Yos]

Here you go Michael...told you I'd get it to you before May :thumbsup:



The very first pieces to go in are these small strips that I put in each corner. They’re about a ½”x2” strip. I put them in every weld corner. Once you start to put in the larger pieces…you’ll see you have to snip the corners to get them to lay flat. This first little strip will cover the area left behind from the larger pieces.

Next is the most important piece on the large welds. You need to get this one to adhere to the weld. May take a few tries…but it’ll work.

The next pieces will wrap all the way around the chassis tubes. They’ll need to be cut…A LOT! I’ll show you how I used regular copy paper for patterns in the next few pages. This is the upper chassis connection. On the lower connection…you’ll only need to use one big piece to go across the joint because those tubes meet on the same plane.

Once again…I put in the small strips first. If you’re not worried about 100% coverage, you can skip this, but it’s a lot of work anyways. You might as well do it.

The next piece is about 2”x2”. I just covers the joint at the very top.

I then put 2 pieces up each side of this joint. These are about 2”x3” pieces. You’ll have to cut slits in the areas that don’t lay down in the corners. Then you can roll each side down. The small strip we did first will cover the area that this slit leaves exposed.

The last piece on each tube is the largest, and will overlap on the bottom of the tube. If you’ve done everything correctly…all the smaller pieces will be overlapped by progressively bigger pieces. This last large piece should hold all the edges down.

Here’s a quick pic of how to start the back of the firewall. Once again…this larger piece will overlap everything. Keeping all of the smaller pieces firmly secured.

And here’s some pics of how I used regular copy paper for patterns. Copy paper is perfect because it’s 8.5” wide. The tubes are exactly 2”x2” so this leaves a ½” overlap on the bottom. Drawing the lines will help you place it, and drawing them on the following measurements will ensure the seam is in the middle of the bottom of the tube.

Mark out your sides.

Fit it to the chassis angle you’re working on and cut it. I usually put it on the chassis tubes and bent the paper to fit. Then went back to the bench and cut it on the bends. Make sure you only cut angles on two of the sides. The rest will all be straight.

Final check of the fitment.

I cut the foil in 8.5” strips off the roll. This will leave you with 24” long pieces. Only in a few places will you need to go longer than 24”. I just split the difference on the longer tubes.

Lay your paper pattern on the foil and cut away! I used blue tape on the foil surface to mark the sides (lines you put on the paper). That way when you stick the foil down…you can use the blue tape as a guide to ensure you get it straight. This stuff only gives you one shot. Best to be careful!

Hope This helps! You can call me anytime if you need help. Also feel free to call me to go over these instructions ahead of time…I’m sure this is still a bit confusing without having the car in front of you.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Bloody hell Yos.....job well done.

 

[Michael Fling]

Thank you Yos! I have a lot of measuring and cutting to do. It really helps not having to reinvent the wheel. Thanks for taking the time to post the info. You are the King of Bling.

Speaking of not reinventing the wheel, I spent a few hours last night starting to reinvent the wheel. While the angle of the arc and the width may need to be altered (I will have to have the car to determine that), I mocked up the roof snorkel that I intend on changing.

After the car arrives, I will position this on the car after any dimensional changes are made. Then I will create transitional foam pieces from the new snorkel into the existing body work. I then will add modeling clay and fab from there...

 

[Jack]

Nice work Mike! Keep us tuned in..
Thanks

 

[Dave Lindemann]

The gold wrap looks amazing - no question. My only concern is covering the welds. Not to say that anything would ever happen with them but if the the car is going to be driven in anger I'd want to be able to periodically inspect the welds - just in case. Bling is nice but knowing that the chassis isn't developing any stress cracks is important too. My $.02.

Regards,
Dave L

 

[Yos]

Bloody hell Yos.....job well done.

Thanks Fran!

The gold wrap looks amazing - no question. My only concern is covering the welds. Not to say that anything would ever happen with them but if the the car is going to be driven in anger I'd want to be able to periodically inspect the welds - just in case. Bling is nice but knowing that the chassis isn't developing any stress cracks is important too. My $.02.

Regards,
Dave L

Good point...I thought about that while I was doing this, but decided to risk it. I'll make sure to drive with my fingers crossed :drunk:

Thank you Yos! I have a lot of measuring and cutting to do. It really helps not having to reinvent the wheel. Thanks for taking the time to post the info. You are the King of Bling.

No problem man...I hope it goes smooth for you.

 

[Dave Forster]

Hi Michael,

Your list above shows teflon ss braid hose for fuel line. Have you found a good source for a conductive teflon hose?

I have read of cases where teflon hoses have failed when carrying fuel because of static discharge caused by the fuel flowing through teflon lines. The static tries to arc through the non-conductive teflon to the steel braid, causing a failure of the hose wall with predictably bad results. To correct this, some manufacturers have added a conductive component to the teflon, allowing it to conduct any static electricity to the fittings at each end, preventing arcing.

I called Summit Racing the other day and spoke to one of their techs, who confirmed that static buildup could be a problem when carrying fuel and stated that none of the teflon hose brands they carry include a conductor in the inner liner. It seems strange that various hose manufacturers would advertise their teflon hoses as suitable for fuel if there is a static buildup problem, so I'm not sure if what I am reading is a real problem or a nonissue. I couldn't find any conductive teflon hoses at any of the other suppliers I normally use, either.

Here are a couple of links on the subject:
PTFE Fuel Hose and AN Fittings Engine Install - Truckin Magazine
Performance Fuel Hoses - Hot Rod Magazine

Do you have any thoughts on this or have you already found a good conductive-teflon supplier?

 

[Michael Fling]

I was unaware of the possibility. In the article, it says...

"Conductive-core PTFE lines are a specialty of Michigan-based TechAFX (techafx.com)."

I'll take a look there. Maybe some others can give us some insight... :shrug:

 

[Michael Fling]

I have the Koso gauge ordered with my car. I want to display oil pressure (which I understand it does not do). So, I am ordering a oil pressure gauge from Speedhut. I found a Low-Profile Thermostatic Oil Cooler Adapter for LS-Series Engines from Improved Racing- Improved Racing. This will prevent oil from going to the oil cooler before it comes up to temperature. I am also wanting to put a oil pressure safety switch in place too. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-810. So here is what I am wondering...

What all does the Koso unit display? I am wondering if a water temp and fuel level gauge would be necessary? There are duel gauges that can show either, but I was trying to clarify before I ordered.

 

[Mike]

I too have the Koso and subsequently ordered the speedhut oil pressure gauge (that incorporates a low oil pressure light) and voltage gauge - the Koso displays neither. The koso shows speed, odometer & trip, water and oil temps, some 0-60 stuff and gas level. Has several other setting screens where you need to input certain car parameters. Though I haven't figured out yet if the exhibited gas level bars are showing the status of empty or full....

 

[Alex]

I was unaware of the possibility. In the article, it says...

"Conductive-core PTFE lines are a specialty of Michigan-based TechAFX (techafx.com)."

I'll take a look there. Maybe some others can give us some insight... :shrug:

Seems like it's just a lot easier to to use genuine Aeroquip braided stianless hose or startlite and call it a day. I've heard a bajillion complaints from people using other brands about how they weep fuel, smell, fail and turn into a sprinker system, etc... etc... but not problems with Aeroquip that weren't caused by user error :shrug: