Unfortunately I can not see the picture. Is this box setup to run standard, inverted or both?
Thanks
Thanks
Gettrag tranny opinions?
- Thread starter NASA racer
- Start date
My picture didn't show - maybe this will work.
Robert Logan
Defunct Manufactuer - Old RF Company
Paul S,
The box I am using is from a 2WD Audi A8. The Audi S series cars use similar boxes but I can not say for definate that this is the same.
A similar box was used in a 968 Porsche and I believe that the boxes are set up for a sequential shift (I hope).
Best wishes,
Robert
The box I am using is from a 2WD Audi A8. The Audi S series cars use similar boxes but I can not say for definate that this is the same.
A similar box was used in a 968 Porsche and I believe that the boxes are set up for a sequential shift (I hope).
Best wishes,
Robert
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Steve
You say in your post Lloyd Butfoy described the hydraulic release bearing in ZF as being unreliable. I have one in my ZF and it appears to be seized.I wonder if this is the problem. I was hoping to use it as the forks for the manual system have been milled off and this may be the same in yours. Can you tell me more? I don't want to spend money repairing the hydraulic one if it's a lemon.
Regards Ross
You say in your post Lloyd Butfoy described the hydraulic release bearing in ZF as being unreliable. I have one in my ZF and it appears to be seized.I wonder if this is the problem. I was hoping to use it as the forks for the manual system have been milled off and this may be the same in yours. Can you tell me more? I don't want to spend money repairing the hydraulic one if it's a lemon.
Regards Ross
I've been doing some research on this and it seems the previous owner of my kit, Bob Lawrence, had posted a question to the Audi Fans mail list back in 2001 regarding the 016 transmission vs the 01E. Here's Bob's question and the reply:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>I am building a replica of the Ford GT40 that raced at LeMans in the sixties.
The car is mid engined and is set up for the Audi 016 5 speed box that was found in the Audi 5000's and 100's. The trans is bolted to a 5.0 Ford V8 with an adapter plate. I am interested in using an Audi 01E five or six speed. Are the mountings and bellhousing pattern the same? Will the 01E handle more torque than a 016?
Way cool:
Ok, here's the scoop on the audi stuff.
The 0165spd is considered the beefiest of the bunch, the O1E the weakest. When Bob Dupree did the LT1Quattro swap, I looked into this quite intensely. The 016 is a common swap trans, the adapter is easily sourced, and it appears to be the *only* one that has been used reliably over the years.
For more on this swap, try going to: www.flyinhead.com and following the links to the LT1Q.
It has the biggest input shaft of the group (save the v8, but that's only available as quattro, and is much bigger transmission all together), can handle the highest torque and hp of the audi line as well. One option *might* be to get the trans fluid pump off the v8 quattro 016 based trans (it's attached to the pass side driveshaft, er, that's facing the correct way - behind motor), and adapt it to work with the 016. I've heard from several audi race dudes this is an upgrade that can be done, but I have no btdt, nor know of anyone short of Audi sport that might have tried this.
Bottom Line: In the audi transmission lineup, the 016 is the strongest trans available, especially for a high torque 'merican v8 motor.
HTH
Scott Justusson
QSHIPQ Performance Tuning
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Worthington ]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>I am building a replica of the Ford GT40 that raced at LeMans in the sixties.
The car is mid engined and is set up for the Audi 016 5 speed box that was found in the Audi 5000's and 100's. The trans is bolted to a 5.0 Ford V8 with an adapter plate. I am interested in using an Audi 01E five or six speed. Are the mountings and bellhousing pattern the same? Will the 01E handle more torque than a 016?
Way cool:
Ok, here's the scoop on the audi stuff.
The 0165spd is considered the beefiest of the bunch, the O1E the weakest. When Bob Dupree did the LT1Quattro swap, I looked into this quite intensely. The 016 is a common swap trans, the adapter is easily sourced, and it appears to be the *only* one that has been used reliably over the years.
For more on this swap, try going to: www.flyinhead.com and following the links to the LT1Q.
It has the biggest input shaft of the group (save the v8, but that's only available as quattro, and is much bigger transmission all together), can handle the highest torque and hp of the audi line as well. One option *might* be to get the trans fluid pump off the v8 quattro 016 based trans (it's attached to the pass side driveshaft, er, that's facing the correct way - behind motor), and adapt it to work with the 016. I've heard from several audi race dudes this is an upgrade that can be done, but I have no btdt, nor know of anyone short of Audi sport that might have tried this.
Bottom Line: In the audi transmission lineup, the 016 is the strongest trans available, especially for a high torque 'merican v8 motor.
HTH
Scott Justusson
QSHIPQ Performance Tuning
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Worthington ]
Ross,
My information is second-hand, as I did not talk to Lloyd myself. I'll try to find out more this weekend when I go visit my car...
My information is second-hand, as I did not talk to Lloyd myself. I'll try to find out more this weekend when I go visit my car...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brett McCall:
The box is a Getrag Type 228 transaxle, which is used in the Boxster S.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Brett, I poked around on the Getrag web site and it appears that the Porsche Boxter S uses a Getrag Type 448 transaxle. Let me see if I can translate this table from the Getrag web site:
Type / Torque (Nm) / Axes Interval(?) (mm) / Final Drive / Weight (kg) / Vehicle
256 / 310 / 87 / 3.818 / 60.1 / Porsche Boxster S
448 / 540 / 85 / 3.818 / 70.0 / Porsche 911 Turbo, GT3
450 + AWD / 370 / 87 / 3.818 / 60.3 / Porsche 911
466 AWD / 450 / 82 / ? / 73.0 / Audi A4 quattro S4, 2.5 TDI,A6 quattro 3.0 TDI
815 / 262 / 75 / 3.62 / 57.0 / Audi A4, A6, A8 (2.5 TDI), A6 2.7 5V,VW Passat 1.9 TDI PD, 2.5 TDI
815 AWD / 400 / 75 / 4.11 / 71.5 / Audi A4 quattro 1.9 TDI PD,A6 quattro 2.5 TDI, 2.7 5V, 4.2 V8, A8 quattro 4.2 V8,A6 Allroad 2.5 TDI, 2.7 5V,VW Passat 1.9 TDI PD, 2,5 TDI
Interesting to note the rated torque capabilities of the various Getrag Audi boxes. It seems that if Robert is referring to the gearbox from a 2WD Audi A8, then it would be a Type 815. Also makes me think that Ultima is using a modified gearbox or that Getrag's torque ratings are extemely conservative. The Type 256 box in the Boxster S is rated at a 262 Nm - that's 193 ft-lb for us Yanks and you old-school Brits - and the Chevy LS1 and LS6 engines that Ultima puts in front of that box easily makes 320+ ft-lb of torque at the flywheel in stock configuration. I tend to think Getrag is being Teutonically conservative in their torque ratings...I've seen several Supra TTs that make 600+ rwhp through their stock Getrag transmissions, with some up over 800 rwhp.
It will be very interesting to see what Getrag boxes can be made to work. A top quality unit will almost certainly be a lot less expensive than a Quaife.
[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Worthington ]
The box is a Getrag Type 228 transaxle, which is used in the Boxster S.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Brett, I poked around on the Getrag web site and it appears that the Porsche Boxter S uses a Getrag Type 448 transaxle. Let me see if I can translate this table from the Getrag web site:
Type / Torque (Nm) / Axes Interval(?) (mm) / Final Drive / Weight (kg) / Vehicle
256 / 310 / 87 / 3.818 / 60.1 / Porsche Boxster S
448 / 540 / 85 / 3.818 / 70.0 / Porsche 911 Turbo, GT3
450 + AWD / 370 / 87 / 3.818 / 60.3 / Porsche 911
466 AWD / 450 / 82 / ? / 73.0 / Audi A4 quattro S4, 2.5 TDI,A6 quattro 3.0 TDI
815 / 262 / 75 / 3.62 / 57.0 / Audi A4, A6, A8 (2.5 TDI), A6 2.7 5V,VW Passat 1.9 TDI PD, 2.5 TDI
815 AWD / 400 / 75 / 4.11 / 71.5 / Audi A4 quattro 1.9 TDI PD,A6 quattro 2.5 TDI, 2.7 5V, 4.2 V8, A8 quattro 4.2 V8,A6 Allroad 2.5 TDI, 2.7 5V,VW Passat 1.9 TDI PD, 2,5 TDI
Interesting to note the rated torque capabilities of the various Getrag Audi boxes. It seems that if Robert is referring to the gearbox from a 2WD Audi A8, then it would be a Type 815. Also makes me think that Ultima is using a modified gearbox or that Getrag's torque ratings are extemely conservative. The Type 256 box in the Boxster S is rated at a 262 Nm - that's 193 ft-lb for us Yanks and you old-school Brits - and the Chevy LS1 and LS6 engines that Ultima puts in front of that box easily makes 320+ ft-lb of torque at the flywheel in stock configuration. I tend to think Getrag is being Teutonically conservative in their torque ratings...I've seen several Supra TTs that make 600+ rwhp through their stock Getrag transmissions, with some up over 800 rwhp.
It will be very interesting to see what Getrag boxes can be made to work. A top quality unit will almost certainly be a lot less expensive than a Quaife.
[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Worthington ]
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Looks that way. I have sent a note to Ted Marlow at Ultima for his opinion, but no response back yet....
However, if people are using the Audi box, it is rated considerably lower.... As for the Boxster it only produces itself 310 Nm of Torque accordong to Porsche and I have seen them modified. SO perhaps Getrag only quote what the Boxster produces?
Yet the Turbo produces 560Nm of torque and Getrag only claim 540. SO perhaps they are just covering themselves against litigation? The GT2 produced 620Nm and I assume that must use the same box, as this s what the GT3 now uses........
If you want to talk to Ultima go to www.ultimasports.co.uk or Foreman cars are starting to use this uniot as well on their P1 replicas, so go to www.nfauto.co.uk for that.
If all else fails, I will see if I can get any info internally at Ford through the Powertain group.
However, if people are using the Audi box, it is rated considerably lower.... As for the Boxster it only produces itself 310 Nm of Torque accordong to Porsche and I have seen them modified. SO perhaps Getrag only quote what the Boxster produces?
Yet the Turbo produces 560Nm of torque and Getrag only claim 540. SO perhaps they are just covering themselves against litigation? The GT2 produced 620Nm and I assume that must use the same box, as this s what the GT3 now uses........
If you want to talk to Ultima go to www.ultimasports.co.uk or Foreman cars are starting to use this uniot as well on their P1 replicas, so go to www.nfauto.co.uk for that.
If all else fails, I will see if I can get any info internally at Ford through the Powertain group.
To answer Ross' question:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> You say in your post Lloyd Butfoy described the hydraulic release bearing in ZF as being unreliable. I have one in my ZF and it appears to be seized.I wonder if this is the problem. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I did ask about this, and apparently the problem only occurs if a car is not driven for extended periods of time (like sits for a month or more at a time). It's not a matter of the bearing seizing, but there is a seal which dries out and then when the car is driven, said seal apparently rolls over and leaks. That's still second-hand information, as I got it from Dan at Finish Line Motorsports rather than from Lloyd himself, but it appears that I don't need an engineered solution after all...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> You say in your post Lloyd Butfoy described the hydraulic release bearing in ZF as being unreliable. I have one in my ZF and it appears to be seized.I wonder if this is the problem. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I did ask about this, and apparently the problem only occurs if a car is not driven for extended periods of time (like sits for a month or more at a time). It's not a matter of the bearing seizing, but there is a seal which dries out and then when the car is driven, said seal apparently rolls over and leaks. That's still second-hand information, as I got it from Dan at Finish Line Motorsports rather than from Lloyd himself, but it appears that I don't need an engineered solution after all...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> Did you think this thread would get over 50 responses?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Enh...noooo. There's a ton of good information here but now I'm on overload. Of course one thing I've learned in the world of custom cars, there don't tend to be too many "right" answers. Best one can do is try to learn enough to make an informed decision in their case...this thread has helped me look at several issues I'd never considered.
Nobody considered a G50 in a CAV? (ducks)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Enh...noooo. There's a ton of good information here but now I'm on overload. Of course one thing I've learned in the world of custom cars, there don't tend to be too many "right" answers. Best one can do is try to learn enough to make an informed decision in their case...this thread has helped me look at several issues I'd never considered.
Nobody considered a G50 in a CAV? (ducks)
I uploaded the Excel Audi spreadsheet on my site. Right click the link and "Save target as"
[ February 05, 2003: Message edited by: Wayne Presley ]
[ February 05, 2003: Message edited by: Wayne Presley ]
Wayne,
Your link goes to www.verycoolparts.co
I think you might need a .com instead of .co
Have fun!
John
Your link goes to www.verycoolparts.co
I think you might need a .com instead of .co
Have fun!
John
Wayne,
That's a very impressive Excel sheet you have there. Do you have any preference of the Audi transaxles? Also, I received an email from my GT40 friend Mark Clapp describing the bell housing on his 016/5N. Do any of the transaxles on your spreadsheet have a larger shaped bell as compared to the 5N?
Have fun!
John
That's a very impressive Excel sheet you have there. Do you have any preference of the Audi transaxles? Also, I received an email from my GT40 friend Mark Clapp describing the bell housing on his 016/5N. Do any of the transaxles on your spreadsheet have a larger shaped bell as compared to the 5N?
Have fun!
John
Robert Logan
Defunct Manufactuer - Old RF Company
The rest of the ID numbers indicate the date of manufacture " DDMMY " (year means 1980 something ).
I have just got our first OIE Audi gearbox. What a great piece of work. The length and width are almost the same but it is MUCH more beefy and with 6 speeds will be great. We are working at a full conversion for the box into any car fitted with a OI6 box. The gear ratios are excellent.
Best wishes,
Robert
I have just got our first OIE Audi gearbox. What a great piece of work. The length and width are almost the same but it is MUCH more beefy and with 6 speeds will be great. We are working at a full conversion for the box into any car fitted with a OI6 box. The gear ratios are excellent.
Best wishes,
Robert
