Charlie Farley
Supporter
Ding Ding !!!
Round 2,429...
Round 2,429...
Gratitude
- Thread starter gtbob
- Start date
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Look, another group of white males who all look a like destroying things and assaulting people, circa 2006:
As the denizens of the City of Bridges celebrated the Steelers’ 27-23 victory over the Cardinals for a historic sixth Super Bowl win, small pockets of gold and black-clad fans across the city began to take the revelries a little too far. In a somewhat surprising turn, the riots were scattered instead of focused in a single area. By dawn, law enforcement agencies had to respond to over 400 emergency calls and arrested over 100 people (including about 80 students) for offences such as fighting, arson, theft, vandalism, looting, breaking windows and the obligatory overturning of cars. City officials estimateed that the night’s riot caused damages of at least $150,000 to city properties.
So again, I'd point out it isn't just "immigrants" who do this.
As the denizens of the City of Bridges celebrated the Steelers’ 27-23 victory over the Cardinals for a historic sixth Super Bowl win, small pockets of gold and black-clad fans across the city began to take the revelries a little too far. In a somewhat surprising turn, the riots were scattered instead of focused in a single area. By dawn, law enforcement agencies had to respond to over 400 emergency calls and arrested over 100 people (including about 80 students) for offences such as fighting, arson, theft, vandalism, looting, breaking windows and the obligatory overturning of cars. City officials estimateed that the night’s riot caused damages of at least $150,000 to city properties.
So again, I'd point out it isn't just "immigrants" who do this.
OK that's enough now guys. Jeff, you're a little bit misguided on this. There is compelling evidence that the events of New Years Eve in Cologne have it's roots in North Africa as I explained in an earlier post. Whereas you might be quite correct in your exposure of criminality among white youths, and God knows we have enough of them here, the Cologne incidents owe more to a cultural motivation rather than a pure criminal one in that the perpetrators did not see their acts as necessarily criminal.
That is the principal worry of the German and pan European population and the reason why the Cologne Police were largely non committal not wishing to provoke a backlash. My earlier post also highlights the fears of those who have been subjected to the enforced concept of multiculturalism over the past decade.
We must be permitted to object to this concept on principal without being called racists. The fact remains, that however forgiving or understanding you might be, dumping 1 million people with very different life practices in your midst is not conducive to harmonious relations however you dress it up.
I have left this thread open for the moment but if it cannot be discussed with respect then it will be closed.
That is the principal worry of the German and pan European population and the reason why the Cologne Police were largely non committal not wishing to provoke a backlash. My earlier post also highlights the fears of those who have been subjected to the enforced concept of multiculturalism over the past decade.
We must be permitted to object to this concept on principal without being called racists. The fact remains, that however forgiving or understanding you might be, dumping 1 million people with very different life practices in your midst is not conducive to harmonious relations however you dress it up.
I have left this thread open for the moment but if it cannot be discussed with respect then it will be closed.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Keith, only respect here.
I get your point but I do think you are missing mine. It's not that these North African folks don't know they were violating the law, it's that packs of young men often times get out of control. Regardless of nationality or culture.
I was actually in Frankfurt and then the train station in Cologne anyway December 28ish. Went to Arnhem and saw the Bridge Too Far. The number of young men of North African or Middle Eastern descent was striking I agree.
But I (a) don't think attributing the acts of gangs of young men to all of their culture is fair (witness the sports riot stuff I posted and (b) from what I've read it was that the Cologne olice were simply overwhelmed, not that they felt a response woud be "racist."
I get your point but I do think you are missing mine. It's not that these North African folks don't know they were violating the law, it's that packs of young men often times get out of control. Regardless of nationality or culture.
I was actually in Frankfurt and then the train station in Cologne anyway December 28ish. Went to Arnhem and saw the Bridge Too Far. The number of young men of North African or Middle Eastern descent was striking I agree.
But I (a) don't think attributing the acts of gangs of young men to all of their culture is fair (witness the sports riot stuff I posted and (b) from what I've read it was that the Cologne olice were simply overwhelmed, not that they felt a response woud be "racist."
Keith,
A pretty astute observation and summary, I believe. In the US, we've prided ourselves on being a "melting pot" but the reality is there have been enclaves of religious/ethnic subsets who've kept to themselves and not integrated into the greater whole of the country throughout our history. In most cases, these groups have still abided by the laws of the US. In addition, their children desired to be more "American" and less like their parents ethnicity. My father was the son of Greek immigrants and just wanted to be an American kid, not the son of the immigrant down the street who owned a restaurant (what else does a Greek do when coming to the US). He ultimately married a non-Greek girl and the cultural influences faded with each subsequent generation. The result is less identity with the original culture and more identity with America over time. I attend a Catholic church (although I'm not Catholic, long story) that was the "Irish Catholic church" in the 1800's-early 1900's. There's a "German Catholic church" in town too. Now, they've lost that identity and are just the Catholic churches with very mixed ethnicity attendees.
The "enforced multiculturalism" is problematic even amongst similar cultures. It results in isolationism, reinforces prejudices, fosters conflict. Amongst markedly different cultures the results can be far more violent, such as the attacks in Cologne as well as the influx of Muslims back to the middle east from France etc in an effort to radicalize.
A pretty astute observation and summary, I believe. In the US, we've prided ourselves on being a "melting pot" but the reality is there have been enclaves of religious/ethnic subsets who've kept to themselves and not integrated into the greater whole of the country throughout our history. In most cases, these groups have still abided by the laws of the US. In addition, their children desired to be more "American" and less like their parents ethnicity. My father was the son of Greek immigrants and just wanted to be an American kid, not the son of the immigrant down the street who owned a restaurant (what else does a Greek do when coming to the US). He ultimately married a non-Greek girl and the cultural influences faded with each subsequent generation. The result is less identity with the original culture and more identity with America over time. I attend a Catholic church (although I'm not Catholic, long story) that was the "Irish Catholic church" in the 1800's-early 1900's. There's a "German Catholic church" in town too. Now, they've lost that identity and are just the Catholic churches with very mixed ethnicity attendees.
The "enforced multiculturalism" is problematic even amongst similar cultures. It results in isolationism, reinforces prejudices, fosters conflict. Amongst markedly different cultures the results can be far more violent, such as the attacks in Cologne as well as the influx of Muslims back to the middle east from France etc in an effort to radicalize.
No, I did get that Jeff. I agree at the time the police were somewhat overwhelmed, but there was no attempt, or rather there was a weak response to the follow up. It's all a matter of how people will disseminate the information. For example, several days later, an anti immigration demonstration was met with the full force of the law and many arrests were made.
How does that look? It is therefore a simple short step to presume that there are inherent weaknesses in Western attitudes where the issue of Race is concerned and in particular Germany for obvious reasons. These weaknesses have not gone unnoticed and I believe Cologne & other German cities on NYE may well have been a manifestation of that. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so...
To put the record straight I love the diversity of races & languages which is why I know how to say "any chance of a shag?" in 20 different languages... I would much prefer a melting pot of diverse cultures to living among a bunch of cynical old white supremacists I assure you. My vision of hell was always a holiday in Spain with fellow Brits.. I spent 50 years in the Entertainment business and whenever my fellow countrymen got drunk or hit drugs or both, there was hell to pay and I've got the scars and the bullet holes to prove it. Heck, I don't even like them sober!
I've absolutely no issues with people from anywhere coming here but they need to share our song sheet and sing in unison (or even harmony)..
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
There is an Elephant in the room.....It's name is Islam.
I also have no issues with refugees/migrants, the bit I have a problem with is the way countries within Europe have dealt with this influx of people. Being seen to do the right thing is one issue and most within the EU have done their fair share to accommodate as many as possible. In my opinion failing to disperse these refugees/migrants evenly throughout the community is a big mistake and doing them a huge injustice. Lessons should have been learned from places like Bradford,Southall and Brixton in the UK, there are tens of thousands within these communities that have lived here for many years that still do not speak English. The sad part is they dont have to because the community they live within caters for all their needs while short changing them of the chance to integrate into t6he bigger society. Spread more thinly this would not happen and would benefit everyone.
Bob
I'll just say that enforced integration with different races/cultures just doesn't work period and this is also so in reverse.. In order to assimilate or be assimilated, one has to "go native". I came across this "enclave" scenario on my first visit to the US in 1975 when I happened upon a British pub in Santa Monica called the Kings Arms. I thought I'd get a decent pint and a game of darts in there. I was right on both counts but what I didn't count on was the hostility of the customers who were, to a man, British ex pat builders who had married US women and made a very comfortable life for themselves.
They never moved outside their circle, jealously guarded their "privileges" and they were determined to make their little social world as ersatz British as they could. I experienced the same in Spain - little Hitlers (former Shop Stewards) would spring up in ex pat communities and form 'Focus Groups' that would put pressure on the Spanish authorities to grant them some kind of autonomy and freedom from the more irksome of Spanish legislation. They have their own English language newspaper and think nothing of belittling their hosts in large type as if they (the Spanish) couldn't understand English or were generally thick. These are perhaps the very same people who moan about the lack of integration of the immigrant communities back in Britain.. I hated being among these people..
That I think is basic human nature the world over. Personally, I've always gone as "native" as possible without losing my identity and in that way, learn far more about people and cultures from the "inside".
That's not the way of the mainstream however, but I also believe we should be able to choose who we live among without being labelled 'racist', the most overused and abused term so far this century.
They never moved outside their circle, jealously guarded their "privileges" and they were determined to make their little social world as ersatz British as they could. I experienced the same in Spain - little Hitlers (former Shop Stewards) would spring up in ex pat communities and form 'Focus Groups' that would put pressure on the Spanish authorities to grant them some kind of autonomy and freedom from the more irksome of Spanish legislation. They have their own English language newspaper and think nothing of belittling their hosts in large type as if they (the Spanish) couldn't understand English or were generally thick. These are perhaps the very same people who moan about the lack of integration of the immigrant communities back in Britain.. I hated being among these people..
That I think is basic human nature the world over. Personally, I've always gone as "native" as possible without losing my identity and in that way, learn far more about people and cultures from the "inside".
That's not the way of the mainstream however, but I also believe we should be able to choose who we live among without being labelled 'racist', the most overused and abused term so far this century.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
So, just seven people attacked (all male) from similar ethnic backgrounds to the perpetrators provides balance does it? Jeff I'm not quite sure that's a great example of even handedness. There is also the story of some North African Arabs expressing horror at the Cologne attacks in some portions of the press. You don't have to preach to the choir as we really do understand that the lack of respect shown to single women only probably affects 75% of the male population of Arab countries. Why couldn't they have sent the other 25%? Damned selfish I call it...
Seriously, we get it but it doesn't help the victims of this mass assault. We also realise that Muslims are victims of Islamic fundamentalism but again it's hard to find a comforting syllable within that knowledge for those of a different culture. If the basis of your argument is to patronise those who express concerns over mass immigration and multiculturalism then I posit that you have succeeded in your objective. If on the other hand you seek to "re-educate" those people who have rightly expressed horror and indignation at the prospect of over 1,000 people carrying out mass criminal acts as an organised group of "random" people (with an as yet undeclared motive) then I think you have not succeeded even in limited form.
If you lived in Cologne, what would your advice now be to your wife or girlfriend?
I think all intelligent people "get it" but getting it theoretically and devising and instigating practical solutions is a whole different ball game.
The box has been opened and you can't get it all back in...
I've never understood the 'thinking' of those who move to other countries fully expecting the 'natives' of those countries to either adapt to, or actually adopt the newcomers' culture/ways/traditions/customs/laws OR ELSE...if you know what I mean.
Muslims probably provide the best example of that, right down to their insistence that Sharia Law take precedence over native law...in their own Muslim communities at least...................initially anyway.
My own attitude regarding that sort of thing is; those who are SO INSISTANT that things in their adopted country be done the way they're done 'in the old country' should stay in the old country.
Label me intolerant, insensitive, intransigent, or whatever other label one might choose, I couldn't care less. Any country that allows immigrants to dictate what goes on within its borders will cease to be in darned short order.
I'm going back to bed...:dozey:
Of course the irony being that America would not be the country it is today if the events depicted in your final paragraph had not taken place....
You've just 'spun' what I stated, yuh contrary ole buzzard.
The "immigrants" to whom you seem to refer/allude had become legal c-i-t-i-z-e-n-s of the U.S. over the years, 'had learned the language and blended into the culture. None of them demanded the U.S. be turned into another Japan, Norway, Iran, China, Germany, etc., nor that the U.S. adopt their particular country's legal system, cultural traditions, moral standards, religion, or what have you.
BTW - how's your foot doing today annoyance/pain-wise? :squint:
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So Larry are you saying that before John Wayne shot all the Injuns the migrants that became the majority in Merica lived in wigwams, danced around fires and adopted their culture?
Bob
