Gratitude

[Robert May Eng.]

I wouldn't go there if I were you Bob...

AWWWWWWW.


Anyway moving along I was reading this article on the strain the Germans health system has come under. This not a pop at the migrants but just another unforseen in the whole fiasco. Doctor claims refugees have pushed German hospitals to breaking point | World | News | Daily Express


Bob

 

[Keith]

I'm hardly surprised. I still have a hard time just trying to visualise the impact of 1,000,000 new arrivals in the past year!

I read this today. Can that be true? I don't think anyone could possibly cope with that influx over short period. I'm trying to verify this figure because I flat don't believe it but that's what I read this morning...

 

[Larry L.]

So Larry are you saying that before John Wayne shot all the Injuns the migrants that became the majority in Merica lived in wigwams, danced around fires and adopted their culture?

Bob

I wouldn't go there if I were you Bob...

'Too late...



Am I really supposed to assume you're not smart enough to know e-x-a-c-t-l-y what I was getting at, Bob? Seriously? Am I to assume you simply don't have the ability to focus on the here-and-now and approach my point in that context alone as opposed to resorting to obfuscation by employing a 'smoke-and-mirrors' argument equating today's reality to some other time/place/circumstance/population in the attempt to negate my point in the eyes of some? :squint:

Knock yourself out...

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

'Too late...



Am I really supposed to assume you're not smart enough to know e-x-a-c-t-l-y what I was getting at, Bob? Seriously? Am I to assume you simply don't have the ability to focus on the here-and-now and approach my point in that context alone as opposed to resorting to obfuscation by employing a 'smoke-and-mirrors' argument equating today's reality to some other time/place/circumstance/population in the attempt to negate my point in the eyes of some? :squint:

Knock yourself out...

I'm not here to defend Bob I'm sure he is quite capable of doing that himself, but I saw his post as English humour. Not as an attempt to negate your post.

 

[Larry L.]

It's healing up very well thanks for asking Larry.. I've yet to put any weight on it but I'm sure it will be fine and if I fall over, I can blame the brandy.... :laugh:

'Good to hear... :2thumbsup:


Brandy??? 'Too darned 'upper class' for me.

Try Bacardi 151...if you can even get it over there. 'Will get you where you might wanna go 'post-surgery' far more...uh...'efficiently'. :nice:

 

[Larry L.]

I'm not here to defend Bob I'm sure he is quite capable of doing that himself, but I saw his post as English humour. Not as an attempt to negate your post.

If true - my apologies, Bob! :thumbsup:

 

[Robert May Eng.]

If true - my apologies, Bob! :thumbsup:

In cheek Larry.:laugh:

Anyway we are all migrants or of migrants somewhere along he line, whats changed is we are now nimby`s.:laugh:

Bob

 

[Jeff Young]

So, just seven people attacked (all male) from similar ethnic backgrounds to the perpetrators provides balance does it? Jeff I'm not quite sure that's a great example of even handedness. There is also the story of some North African Arabs expressing horror at the Cologne attacks in some portions of the press. You don't have to preach to the choir as we really do understand that the lack of respect shown to single women only probably affects 75% of the male population of Arab countries. Why couldn't they have sent the other 25%? Damned selfish I call it...

Seriously, we get it but it doesn't help the victims of this mass assault. We also realise that Muslims are victims of Islamic fundamentalism but again it's hard to find a comforting syllable within that knowledge for those of a different culture. If the basis of your argument is to patronise those who express concerns over mass immigration and multiculturalism then I posit that you have succeeded in your objective. If on the other hand you seek to "re-educate" those people who have rightly expressed horror and indignation at the prospect of over 1,000 people carrying out mass criminal acts as an organised group of "random" people (with an as yet undeclared motive) then I think you have not succeeded even in limited form.

If you lived in Cologne, what would your advice now be to your wife or girlfriend?

I think all intelligent people "get it" but getting it theoretically and devising and instigating practical solutions is a whole different ball game.

The box has been opened and you can't get it all back in...

Not talking about proportionality at all.

I'm saying:

A bunch of young men from North Africa in groups attacked women in Cologne because they were out of control young men acting criminally. As a result, Muslims who had nothing to do with the attacks were beaten up....because of their religion only.

If a bunch of native born young men from the US or the UK rioted after a sporting event, would it be ok to claim we had a problem with native born young men?

 

[Steve]

6 days...... and that's your best shot?

 

[Keith]

Not talking about proportionality at all.

I'm saying:

A bunch of young men from North Africa in groups attacked women in Cologne because they were out of control young men acting criminally. As a result, Muslims who had nothing to do with the attacks were beaten up....because of their religion only.

If a bunch of native born young men from the US or the UK rioted after a sporting event, would it be ok to claim we had a problem with native born young men?

You have completely ignored the fact that their actions were driven by certain "belief" mechanisms in their "culture". I do get what you are saying Jeff, trust me, but these acts are very much linked with the way "certain cultures" view women. I would go on to say that a single lone female in the United Kingdom would not have been welcome and might have been vilified in pubs etc, in my lifetime, but this wasn't driven by an ideology, just a historical behavioural "glitch" e.g. all lone women are "whores" (which may have been the case 100 years previously.)

Unfortunately, when an ideology preaches or is fundamentally interpreted as endorsing such treatment of females, one can hardly be surprised at the outcome. Despite all of that, over 1,000 men, from similar ethnic backgrounds behaving in such an appalling manner to citizens of the host country deserve to be kicked back to the hell they came from...If you like, you can leave Islam completely out of it!

 

[Jeff Young]

Their belief mechanisms about women are prevalent to various degrees in all cultures amongst young men. I'm not ignoring that, I'm highlighting it.

Should we round up the thousands of white caucasian young males in the US who routinely abuse women on college campuses and send them back to .... the UK? lol...(that's a joke)

There's more going on here than you acknowledge I think. The driver behind the bad behavior is not exclusively or even predominantly "Muslim" - it's overhormoned young male in packs. But teh RESPONSE to it IS all about Muslim.

And Jammin Man - six days, yeah, I had to work. You should try it some time.

 

[Robert May Eng.]

Their belief mechanisms about women are prevalent to various degrees in all cultures amongst young men. I'm not ignoring that, I'm highlighting it.

Should we round up the thousands of white caucasian young males in the US who routinely abuse women on college campuses and send them back to .... the UK? lol...(that's a joke)

.

I hear you Jeff, it goes back to the problems asociated with launching the immigrants at the general public , police and prison services to be educated. Integration should only be after they understand both the tongue , laws and etiquette of their host nation.
Our PM came under fire for daring to come up with a plan for educating some of our quota of female immigrants. . Just cant fecking win
Muslim women's segregation in UK communities must end - Cameron - BBC News

Bob

 

[Steve]

Their belief mechanisms about women are prevalent to various degrees in all cultures amongst young men. I'm not ignoring that, I'm highlighting it.

Should we round up the thousands of white caucasian young males in the US who routinely abuse women on college campuses and send them back to .... the UK? lol...(that's a joke)

There's more going on here than you acknowledge I think. The driver behind the bad behavior is not exclusively or even predominantly "Muslim" - it's overhormoned young male in packs. But teh RESPONSE to it IS all about Muslim.

And Jammin Man - six days, yeah, I had to work. You should try it some time.

Jeff, it is definitely not socially or culturally acceptable to abuse women on college campuses. It happens, usually in association with alcohol and often fraternity parties, but it is by no means an acceptable behavior even amongst peers. To Keith's point, this misogynistic and abusive behavior is widely acceptable or at least tolerated in many areas in the middle east and muslim communities.

Oh, and while you're sleeping, I was washing pus out of the forearm of an IV drug abuser at 2am. So don't bitch to me about work. You obviously missed the humor.

Oh, and don't

 

[Jeff Young]

Actually it IS socially acceptable within some fraternities to abuse women which makes them no different than many Muslim communities.

And that wasn't humor, it was you being an asshole. Don't do it. We've tried to clean the place up and there's no need for crap like that.

 

[Steve]

Jeff, it's really not socially acceptable even amongst a tiny minority of fraternities. There are problem individuals to be sure, but no packs of frat boys running around raping or harassing women en masse. Further, it's certainly not acceptable on any college campus.

Sorry if my poor attempt at humor was offensive, it wasn't meant to be. Having said that, ease up on the foul language and name calling if you please.

 

[Jeff Young]

Hey, don't be offensive and you won't get called on it. Pretty simple.

As to your point, my guess is the 23% of college age women in the US who report sexual abuse while in college would disagree with you:

Study: 23% of women sexually assaulted in college - CNN.com

You can make excuses and question the methodology all you want but those numbers or ones like them are seen in a lot of studies. No matter what the fraternities/packs of young men on campuses SAY about tolerance of that type of behavior, their actual ACTIONS are no different than what you saw in Cologne.

So should we condemn them all as well as a result?

 

[Robert May Eng.]

This needs putting into perspective Jeff, the type of assault a typical female college student would encounter is probably no more than innocent grope from a male friend that misinterpreted a situation. Who here has not been unceremoniously rejected by a female at some point in their youth? That is a whole lot different to a large pack of male immigrants rampaging around a city during a festive season and attacking or raping women.

Bob

 

[Keith]

This needs putting into perspective Jeff, the type of assault a typical female college student would encounter is probably no more than innocent grope from a male friend that misinterpreted a situation. Who here has not been unceremoniously rejected by a female at some point in their youth? That is a whole lot different to a large pack of male immigrants rampaging around a city during a festive season and attacking or raping women.

Bob

There has to be balance and Jeff has provided it, but I'm not convinced. I see/saw the Cologne event as a deliberate attempt to "test" and subvert the established order which has an entirely different flavour to random acts of drunken criminality. As such, it has now been widely accepted (by the German authorities) as an organised event which is pretty scary to be honest. I think there is more to come on this issue and perhaps we haven't yet heard the full story.

By the way, thank you Jeff & Steve for sorting yourselves out..Next time, without the name calling please...

 

[Pat]

Hey, don't be offensive and you won't get called on it. Pretty simple.

Do those rules apply to you as well?

[/QUOTE]As to your point, my guess is the 23% of college age women in the US who report sexual abuse while in college would disagree with you:

Study: 23% of women sexually assaulted in college - CNN.com

You can make excuses and question the methodology all you want but those numbers or ones like them are seen in a lot of studies. [/QUOTE]

The study referenced includes "alcohol/drug facilitated completed penetration". So it would appear that if anyone here has had sex where your partner had consumed alcohol you would be considered a rapist in the study.
In perhaps the only conceivable parallel to the situation in Cologne, the online surveyors employed such a broad definition that "'forced kissing" and even "attempted forced kissing" qualified as sexual assault.

In fact, campus sexual assault has actually declined from 9.2 per 1,000 college students in 1997 to 4.4 per 1,000 in 2013. Far from being a site of violence, the study found that female college students are safer from sexual assault while in college than at any other time in their lives.

If Jeff were to actually read the studies he cites, he'd see that statistically the majority of campus sexual assaults that do occur are as the result of the efforts of individuals committing multiple acts not the roving packs of testosterone fueled fraternities he blames. While the trends on sexual abuse on campus are thankfully headed downward, those in large European migrant communities are not. Attempts to provide a moral equivalency to the situation in Cologne and elsewhere are simply nonsense.

[/QUOTE]No matter what the fraternities/packs of young men on campuses SAY about tolerance of that type of behavior, their actual ACTIONS are no different than what you saw in Cologne.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps I’m mistaken. I'm involved with a major university and I'd like to know the fraternities that support sexual abuse and a reference to the packs of roaming sexual predators on campus. I've been invited to a meeting with the dean of one of the business schools next month and I'd like your information as I'll raise the issue.

If anyone would like a somewhat balanced view of the situation on American campus life, you can read it here.
Statistics Don't Back Up Claims About 'Rape Culture' - US News

Is Jeff now a moderator? When he posted:

[/QUOTE] "And that wasn't humor, it was you being an asshole. Don't do it. We've tried to clean the place up and there's no need for crap like that." [/QUOTE]

It appears that his offensive comments are tolerated when others that are less profane are not. It causes me to seriously regret extending my paid forum membership.

 

[Steve]

There has to be balance and Jeff has provided it, but I'm not convinced. I see/saw the Cologne event as a deliberate attempt to "test" and subvert the established order which has an entirely different flavour to random acts of drunken criminality. As such, it has now been widely accepted (by the German authorities) as an organised event which is pretty scary to be honest. I think there is more to come on this issue and perhaps we haven't yet heard the full story.

By the way, thank you Jeff & Steve for sorting yourselves out..Next time, without the name calling please...

It is important to note that, while sexual assaults occur in all realms, it is higher on college campuses. The circumstances (many many young single people, lot's of alcohol, first taste of freedom away from home, first exposure to many hot women at once for the first time etc etc) do tend to increase the likelihood of the behavior. The key, though, is that it isn't "institutionalized" nor is socially acceptable. No one gets up in the frat the next day, goes down to breakfast and yells out "Hey guys, just raped two women last night, AWESOME". It appears that it is somewhat institutionalized and socially acceptable in a disturbingly large number of Muslim communities. This isn't shocking in a culture where, in many instances, women have a status closer to property.

Jeff, to defend Muslim communities when misogynist or institutionalized sexual criminal behavior occurs, in the end, is simply Virtue Signaling