Gt40 replicas and discussion of pricing

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Re: Wanted: Gt40 replica

You can take any car, throw money at it and then persuade someone to buy it at a corresponding price. So what? How does that individual car's history say anything useful about the GT40 market in general?

Independent of that, what makes you think GT40s are immune to any collector car market motions?
It will be a long answer and open doors for more arguments. So I hesitated. For the sake of manning up and being mature, I will answer your question respectfully. :)

these links wont last forever but take a look:
Ferrari Ferrari | eBay
Ferrari : Testarossa* Ferrari : Testarossa* | eBay
disclaimer: probably not the best example, but I have to work with what's on Ebay
right now.So please guys, no flaming about the steep price. It's still a replica.



those cars are immune to replica markets. Generally anything that is in premium condition built with premium components is going to be expensive and appeal to the very wealthy, which are doing very well right now and buying luxury exotics left and right. The middle class doesn't have that kind of collective operating capital, so the demand has gone down, while the current middle class owners of Gt40s are finding their car more of a nuisance and they sell it. Since 2008 people have been trimming back, with no economic relief in sight maybe they will just let it go. The next to go is the exotic car you drive once a month in the Summer. That's not everyone who owns a GT40, but it's enough people for me to find a car I like for an uninsulated price.

That's not 100% but this trend has been static or worse the last 3 years.
The middle class has lost 7 trillion in net worth assets in 2008. The first markets impacted are luxury markets for the middle class. The two largest investments a person typically makes in their lifetime is a home and vehicle purchase. The housing and automotive industry has been hardest because of this fact. I can go on, but this is the best way I can shorten it into something someone will actually read. Who wants to read all this? it's a long message. Most people on this website own a $100,000 car aren't stupid and probably good with business and money and know exactly what's going on in the economy and markets.

subject change: This has floated around $30,000-$40,000 for about 6 months and no one is buying. I suppose this may be a candidate for the soft market of general replicas, as it's not made to perfection standards from what I can see and the price suggests. I have not seen the car in person and thats an assumption.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Repl...3137544?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item231733f988

again, just my opinion based on inductive reasoning from years of experience with collector car markets and value. I am no Wayne Cavini though. I'm not lecturing anyone or telling anyone how it is or how to think. Just my opinion. Also the unemployment rate for college graduates in my town is ABOUT 1.2% So for educated people in Northern California, things are better than ever for anyone with a degree. I made more in the last 4 years than I did any other time in my life. I don't owe a penny to anyone. Not a single credit card or anything. I finally have enough cash saved to pay off my house and buy a supercar. So I'm not sitting here complaining about the economy. I was lower middle class 8 years ago. If there is anyone else doing better now than before, they aren't selling their GT40. Not for cheap. So it's not a general rule. Those people are buying cars.

*I think I can find a sorted GT40 in premium condition, used for about $50-$75k and tinker with it. I dont expect to buy a perfect new turnkey for $35-$75. An incomplete premium constructed GT40 for $35,000 with no engine or transmission would be a great buy. Some projects never get finished.
 
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Thanks, I dont mind the thread getting hijacked. it happens on forums, it's easy for
personalities to clash and egos to get bruised, myself included.
I think it's organic and interesting. Let's also be honest.
In my opinion, People with egos drive cars like these.
Not humble men that want to go from A to B.

So far I have 9 responses to my email in 3 days and
3 nearly perfect prospects that appear perfect for me.
I also have threads on other websites and getting emails.
So in a way this thread has already served it's purpose.
When I check out the cars in person, if things don't work out
I'll make another short post in the correct forum section that
couldn't possibly irritate even the most sensitive subjects.
 
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Mike

Lifetime Supporter
This may be like throwing gas on a fire but is there really two different GT40 replica/continuation markets out there. One for the SPF cars and one for everything else? No offense intended just curious. If so, why?
 
This may be like throwing gas on a fire but is there really two different GT40 replica/continuation markets out there. One for the SPF cars and one for everything else? No offense intended just curious. If so, why?


Not fuel on fire at all, legitimate question. I'm in a great mood.
I mentioned after one goes through extreme circumstances, the
little things float away shortly. It's not like I said something like
"brett favre hates GT40s". Can you imagine the stampede of death threats.

I believe there are 6 distinct GT40 markets.
Each fluctuates but settles into distinct factions.
I am interested in purchasing 5 or 6(incomplete not poor construct)

This is how I personally would classify it, although nothing offical exists.

1) Prototype, celebrity owned or race history original GT40s
2) authentic GT40s without special collector value
3) authorized continued production of GT40s by carroll shelby (when he dies, investment)
4) track and race cars not intended for street use at all
5) excellent made replica GT40s but unauthorized
5-A) brand new never driven turnkey well constructed Gt40 replicas (brand new hold value)
6) excellent constructed replicas but unfinished and poorly constructed GT40s (avenger)
AA) there is also a subcategory of 5 and 6 because I am a CA resident
Smog exempt and titled correctly as a pre-1975 and not a newly constructed vehicle.
Puts the car in a totally different market value for me.
BB) there would then also be a subcategory for Left Hand Drive cars, some really go for authenticity or left side driving.


What section your vehicle best is classified in, will determine the market trend currently and thus the value of your vehicle today, not forever. It also depends on what cars are competing for the same driving experience and appeal to the same people. For example, if the 2010 Ford GT was $80,000 where would replicas fit in? Corvette is talking about a mid engine supercar to compete with Ferrari, under $75k maybe potential buyers may get distracted by change. Change does is and will happen.


*note the mid engine corvette C8 is a rumor and will most likely be produced as a Cadillac
but who knows.
 
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Mike

Lifetime Supporter
I was certainly not including originals in my comparison. That is an entirely different market!
 
Re: Wanted: Gt40 replica

That would also explain the "extreme" note I took, although the manufacturer spells it "xtreme" I think evidence points to a car similar to this if not this exact car. Does anyone know how to contact the builder? I'm sure he's on gt40s.com from time to time. www.xtremeclassics.com appears dead.

Sadly, and you wouldn't have any way of knowing, but poor choice of words. Mark LaVea passed away, hence XtremeClassics is no longer in business. He did post here quite frequently.

His personal ERA was the development mule, and sold not too long ago for somewhere in the $100K region.

427 Cobra Country--Ford AC Cobra replica manufacturers SUPER-SITE

Ian
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Condolences...

Edward, have you looked through the Cobra Country site at GT40s and what they are selling for?
 
yes, Ive seen that one for years, It's on my bookmark list for car shopping.
great resource but it shows only 4 cars since 2009

that's a good idea, we should share resources for all to use for buying and selling
I'll post mine

gt40s.com
gt40.net/
kitcars.com
madmechanics.com
madmaxcars.com
cobracountry.com
pistonheads.com (uk)
hemmings.com
cars.www2.oodle.com
cars-on-line.com
dupontregistry.com
collectorcarads.com
classiccars.com
hallmark-cars.com
sunsetclassics.com
lonestarclassics.com
autotraderclassics.com
Ebay.com
floridaclassics.net
arnoldclassiccars.com
usedcarsonnet.com
goldenclassics.com
brandnewmusclecar.com
craigslistzone.com
priceside.com
specialtycarsource.com
hillbankmotorsports.com/ i think has cars form time to time

I have a handful of individual dealers across the US that buy and sell muscle cars and replicas. I can share those as well.
 
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Condolences...

Edward, have you looked through the Cobra Country site at GT40s and what they are selling for?

lol, I didn't read this correctly, you were trying to show me how expensive they were on there, I thought you were sharing a link.
 
Re: Wanted: Gt40 replica

Sadly, and you wouldn't have any way of knowing, but poor choice of words. Mark LaVea passed away, hence XtremeClassics is no longer in business. He did post here quite frequently.

His personal ERA was the development mule, and sold not too long ago for somewhere in the $100K region.

427 Cobra Country--Ford AC Cobra replica manufacturers SUPER-SITE

Ian

That is so sad, I am sorry to hear that. I hope his legacy lives on with a new
manufacturer, maybe a relative or partner.
I know someone who has made footprints that big will never be forgotten.
That is truly depressing news. What a tragic loss. There are only a handful
of great men and women in the auto world.
 
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Re: Wanted: Gt40 replica

That is so sad, I am sorry to hear that. I hope his legacy lives on with a new
manufacturer, maybe a relative or partner.
I know someone who has made footprints that big will never be forgotten.
That is truly depressing news. What a tragic loss. There are only a handful
of great men and women in the auto world.

Mark wasn't a manufacturer. He provided a building service. He also developed some aero kits such as a splitter, diffuser, etc. He primarily either purchased an ERA kit for a customer, or the customer provided the ERA kit, and Mark assembled it.

Ian
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
Your classification of "markets" is pretty screwed up, but let me see if I can at least get a start on fixing it with some comments. BTW what you're categorizing are cars, not markets. A market is a set of potential buyers and would thus overlap or fracture these categories.

1) Prototype, celebrity owned or race history original GT40s
2) authentic GT40s without special collector value [there's no such thing; at more than $1 million each they all have special collector value]
3) authorized continued production of GT40s by carroll shelby (when he dies, investment) [The only widely accepted continuation cars are those built by Safir, Superformance and Holman; the ones with "Shelby" dribbled on them are Superformance cars and are not particularly widely valued]
4) track and race cars not intended for street use at all [this overlaps with #1; is it meant to include replicas, originals, or both?]
5) excellent made replica GT40s but unauthorized
5-A) brand new never driven turnkey well constructed Gt40 replicas (brand new hold value) [they have to be driven to be tested; in practice there's no such thing as a 0 miles replica; perhaps you mean never registered? Or mileage below X?]
6) excellent constructed replicas but unfinished and poorly constructed GT40s (avenger) [this phrase has an internal contradiction and thus makes no sense]

You're missing original GT40s with no race history, not prototypes, and no celebrity owners.

You might want to read one of the many books on GT40s before you proceed much further. Otherwise your education is going to be a very long and drawn out process with which knowledgeable people will quickly lose patience.

Also the market for original '60s GT40s is distinctly different from the replicas, so you might as well leave them out of this discussion. If you do, then you've categorized replicas into 3, 4, 5, 5a and 6, (i think) and that set of categories does not cover all the replicas

There aren't really all that many replica manufacturers that matter, so it would work better simply to list the manufacturers first, and then divide those between kits, rollers and complete cars, and then whatever quality or collectibility standards you want to apply.
 
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Your classification of "markets" is pretty screwed up

Scroll up and read this:
This is how I personally would classify it, although nothing offical exists.

it would have saved you all that time correcting my term paper if you read that sentence.
In your attempt to intellectualize a simplistic statement, you revealed somethings about yourself. You left something uncovered. lol, I considered you an intellectual until now. Not grammar or anything like that. I'll give you a clue, it behind why you said this,
"You're missing original GT40s with no race history, not prototypes, and no celebrity owners. " and I clearly said, "2) authentic GT40s without special collector value"
Ok I'll tell you, a survival mechanism that helps to refine and fixate awareness providing that organism has perceptual stability when dealing with a survival situation in any immediate environment. Seeking ways to prove dominance, the perceptual stability mechanism maintains itself when someone else's perceptual stability mechanism threatens it. You are not an intellectual. You are no more in control of your thoughts than a Spider Monkey or a lab rat.
My supervisor at Intel calls it anti-ramanujan syndrome.

I don't see any point in responding to anything you say. It's clear
antagonism has priority over resolution.
 
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Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
Scroll up and read this:
This is how I personally would classify it, although nothing offical exists.
.

How you personally classified it was wrong.

I pointed out that "A market is a set of potential buyers" not cars. You bitch at me for pointing to your errors, and then proceed to re-write your classification exactly according to my correction, publish that, and then delete it. Well at least you're learning, if extremely ungracefully. Why not republish the market classification; I thought it was rather good.​
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
Would you guys quit it and have a civil discussion, for Christ's sake? It's the holiday season. Or take a week off and cool down. Or get together and have a beer. But, Jesus, do SOMETHING. You're supposed to be interested in the same thing, but you wouldn't know it to read all this.
 
I was certainly not including originals in my comparison. That is an entirely different market!

I agree OEMs are a different market. writing something on here with Alan Watkins as
editor in chief is like talking in front of your ex-wife and her attorney, he expected me
to write algorithms or something for Gt40 markets. So I tried not to leave out any
details to avoid more encroachment. If he wasn't trying to constantly edit my thread,
I'd just say something simple like:

check these because GT40 replicas appeal to buyers in these markets
they also cross over often.

1) Classic car market
2) Replica market demand of top tier kits (like RCRP4, Lola, GTM)
3) Competition and track
4) built to order exotics, ultima gtr, ariel atom, etc.
6) supercars that are smog exempt

I can't perform an autopsy on the cars sold online, no pun intended.
It's just a way of looking at how to get an idea of what used GT40s
are selling for, all things being equal.
 
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Would you guys quit it and have a civil discussion, for Christ's sake? It's the holiday season. Or take a week off and cool down. Or get together and have a beer. But, Jesus, do SOMETHING. You're supposed to be interested in the same thing, but you wouldn't know it to read all this.

I wrote this on page 2, trying to extend an olive branch, several times.
but he just won't stop. It's not like I'm doing this to a thread he started.

"I bet if we met at a car show instead of a chatforum,. we'd be buddies. I don't have a single person in real life that I consider to be someone I don't like strongly. That tells me this written exchange is most likely atypical for both of us. Have you got into a fist fight with anyone in a grocery store lately? lol, me either. "

that was me trying so say, we have a common passion for these cars and we are both
most likely nice guys in person.

You cant get respect by disrespecting others. -respect, which can be acquired by ways, such as bravery, charity, unity, empathy, courtesy, admiration, loyalty, sacrifice, triumph and creativity. When people use those words to describe
Alan Watkins, I will shake his hand.

Currently, I would describe him as a bully with a minor in grandiloquence. I admit, I
don't know the guy and even after saying that, I still believe in second chances and
water under the bridge. Also you never know what's going on behind the screen.
Maybe my Father just died and I'm a little upset (that's a dramatization). Maybe Alan is
going through a divorce (that's a dramatization) or was diagnosed with a terminal
illness(that's a dramatization).. You never know why people may seem to act cruel.
Maybe he had too much scotch? Maybe he's sick of people trolling this website and
he's on ultra high alert. The point is, in the future we can try for another first
impression. I think it's best that he not communicate with me anymore for a while.
If he respects that request.
 
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