It does look nice, indeed. Not a component car though and therefore most likely very expensive!
GT40 side impact protection
- Thread starter Brisc
- Start date
It does look nice, indeed. Not a component car though and therefore most likely very expensive!
Mike
Lifetime Supporter
Because it wasn't needed.
Quick Shift #4 – Ford Gt Crushes the Crusher | EveryThing Driven
There are other options...
Mike I love that car can I have two just like it for my kids. But can you make it a mid engine 40 inches tall and weight 2000 pounds do 200 miles an hour car.
Pat
Supporter
There are other options...
I like it but don't forget the mandatory extra-safe helmet.
Attachments
Because it wasn't needed.
Quick Shift #4 – Ford Gt Crushes the Crusher | EveryThing Driven
There are other options...
It wasn't needed, correct. Two years later production ceased because suddenly their solution wasn't good enough as we just learned.
Crushing the roof in a press has nothing to do with the discussed issue about side impact safety in post #8 - I don't think you have understood that, but don't worry about it...
Fran Hall RCR
GT40s Sponsor
It was not a sudden change of direction by Ford after two years, it was well known and pre-planned.
It had nothing to do with not being good enough, it was always going to be built that way.
For the record I have built RCR40's with upper door rollcage bars that had quick release pins to ingress and egress but only as track cars, the silver Ford GT (Robertson racing) shown is also a full on GT2 race car and the rollcage is a huge pain in the butt to navigate and not remotely practical for the street.
It had nothing to do with not being good enough, it was always going to be built that way.
For the record I have built RCR40's with upper door rollcage bars that had quick release pins to ingress and egress but only as track cars, the silver Ford GT (Robertson racing) shown is also a full on GT2 race car and the rollcage is a huge pain in the butt to navigate and not remotely practical for the street.
Thank you for sharing this with us here. Could you be so kind as to post some images of that mechanism?
Pat
Supporter
In post #17, you've said you "have decided not to build a GT40 at this stage, but properly restore another car..."
Given that, it begs the question if this thread should then in the "Miscellaneous Hobby Forums" vs the "All GT40" one.
As for your most recent solicitation of engineering spec and pictures, perhaps the better solution would be to PM Fran, Frank Catt or the other engineers/builders on the forum and offer to PAY them for the design work and intellectual capital you're seeking on your specific restoration project. They then have the choice of giving their designs away or to be fairly compensated for their expertise.
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Mike
Lifetime Supporter
Dark Helmet: So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is
dumb.
Pat, you are taking things out of context in an attempt to have a go at me.
I am a huge GT40 fan and I was planning to build a GT40 replica for many years, long before I joined the forum. I had a close look at a number of amazing builds, a big thanks here to the gents whose projects I got to see and feel in person. In the end, I had to be honest to myself and accept the painful circumstance that the GT40 is too small for me to feel comfortable. Having realized that, I put my time and efforts into restoring a muscle car.
I was shocked by the news that one of our members had a terrible accident as I wanted to visit in person and see how things are progressing. I learned from the official German article of that accident (I posted an exact translation here on this forum which was then deleted) that there may well be a few things to consider, and potentially work out a few simple engineering solutions to increase safety for every other kit car owner, so I started this topic.
My efforts were met mostly by cynicism and a degenerative attitude that I would have never expected in an engineering forum like this. I do feel disappointed about myself for having put so much time into these posts as it seems that the message has been lost.
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Mike
Lifetime Supporter
So you have decided against a GT40 and moved on to a muscle car restoration but are here on the GT40 forum attempting to provide technical solutions for GT40 owners to solve safety problems you perceive with their cars? I think most GT40 owners are already keenly aware of the risks involved driving these cars.
Have you considered becoming a contributing member of the forum? I think Ron recently posted a membership thread asking for support.
Have you considered becoming a contributing member of the forum? I think Ron recently posted a membership thread asking for support.
Side impact protection is a challenge for any car.
There is no trunk/boot or hood length of crumpling zone to absorb the energy during a crash. There are 4 causes which can kill you in a crash,
1. Squeezed in the deformed structure -> try to stiffen the cage around passenger
2. Internal bleedings in your body -> too high G- forces on the human body -> try to use less stiff outer section on the car and gradually stiffen towards inside the car to reduce G-forces
3. External injury during colision of human with hard inside items in the car -> strap inplace and add softening Padding
4. Burning (fuel tank leak and easily flammable materials used)
A gt40 is not designed for any of these situations nor the replicas.
Next to this it is depending on how the side impact happens.
A tree, a SuV, a white minivan, a pickup, a hummer, a volvo, a caddilac...the weight and height of impact into the gt40 can not be predicted.
Body of the replicas made from polyesther will burn like a torch.
A rollcage will may help in certain situations but can make it worse in other situations.
Some people stiffen the side rails above the fuel tank but this can make it worse since those beams may intrude the cabin. Better to have the longitudinal beam above the tank limited linked with the inside cage so it can bend and absorb energy...
It is like the seatbelts, when driving an old cabrio, in some crashes it is better to fly out of the vehicle and you may survive, in other situations the seatbelt will keep you inside but you can headsdown first and kills you.
I agree with the "safety first" approach however you need to try to control what you can control...it is your speed, the operation of your brakes, the setup of the suspension,the condition of the tyres and your own driving skill, reaction, eyesight, the conditions (wet or moist roads...)
Personally I also looked to the chassis, I am restorating a gtd40 and it is in no way a safe chassis for hitting something.
Can it be improved ? For sure, a reinforced beam to support the roofbeam in the engine bay which may help a bit in a roll over. But what about the doors in that case...;-)
What always helps is adding aluminium honeycomb 10 cm/4 inch heigh panels to absorb energy in a gradually way. The question is where to add them... Preferable to the outside chassis rails but will not fit so outside of inner cabin rails..bit depending on which replica you have and how the cage is designed, material use and geometry.
Someone jumping in a gt40 with 500 hp and not being a bit afraid is dangerous. Rollcages and helmets increases only the sense of safety...which is a false feeling and make things worse.
It is the same with what we have in Europe called winter tyres...reducing breaking distance in snow conditions...guess what, people tend to drive quicker with them in snow now and more accidents happen...
This forum is to help eachother with his dreamcar however in my view there should be room for humor even with a serious topic as this one.
When you jump in a Gt40, you need to be aware it bites you and can kill you.
This is also part of the trill and sensation.
See it like skydiving...it is beautifull and gives a trill but there is always a chance you will come in too hard...no guts...no glory. So jump out and buy that gt40 ;-)
There is no trunk/boot or hood length of crumpling zone to absorb the energy during a crash. There are 4 causes which can kill you in a crash,
1. Squeezed in the deformed structure -> try to stiffen the cage around passenger
2. Internal bleedings in your body -> too high G- forces on the human body -> try to use less stiff outer section on the car and gradually stiffen towards inside the car to reduce G-forces
3. External injury during colision of human with hard inside items in the car -> strap inplace and add softening Padding
4. Burning (fuel tank leak and easily flammable materials used)
A gt40 is not designed for any of these situations nor the replicas.
Next to this it is depending on how the side impact happens.
A tree, a SuV, a white minivan, a pickup, a hummer, a volvo, a caddilac...the weight and height of impact into the gt40 can not be predicted.
Body of the replicas made from polyesther will burn like a torch.
A rollcage will may help in certain situations but can make it worse in other situations.
Some people stiffen the side rails above the fuel tank but this can make it worse since those beams may intrude the cabin. Better to have the longitudinal beam above the tank limited linked with the inside cage so it can bend and absorb energy...
It is like the seatbelts, when driving an old cabrio, in some crashes it is better to fly out of the vehicle and you may survive, in other situations the seatbelt will keep you inside but you can headsdown first and kills you.
I agree with the "safety first" approach however you need to try to control what you can control...it is your speed, the operation of your brakes, the setup of the suspension,the condition of the tyres and your own driving skill, reaction, eyesight, the conditions (wet or moist roads...)
Personally I also looked to the chassis, I am restorating a gtd40 and it is in no way a safe chassis for hitting something.
Can it be improved ? For sure, a reinforced beam to support the roofbeam in the engine bay which may help a bit in a roll over. But what about the doors in that case...;-)
What always helps is adding aluminium honeycomb 10 cm/4 inch heigh panels to absorb energy in a gradually way. The question is where to add them... Preferable to the outside chassis rails but will not fit so outside of inner cabin rails..bit depending on which replica you have and how the cage is designed, material use and geometry.
Someone jumping in a gt40 with 500 hp and not being a bit afraid is dangerous. Rollcages and helmets increases only the sense of safety...which is a false feeling and make things worse.
It is the same with what we have in Europe called winter tyres...reducing breaking distance in snow conditions...guess what, people tend to drive quicker with them in snow now and more accidents happen...
This forum is to help eachother with his dreamcar however in my view there should be room for humor even with a serious topic as this one.
When you jump in a Gt40, you need to be aware it bites you and can kill you.
This is also part of the trill and sensation.
See it like skydiving...it is beautifull and gives a trill but there is always a chance you will come in too hard...no guts...no glory. So jump out and buy that gt40 ;-)
We'll put. The car is what it is. What car are you building brisc?
There is indeed is somebody out there that is in the same boat I'm in and understands my problem!
2:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UAnlMNvK8Y
I never wanted to be shorter ever before in my life!
The Ford GT is still small, although much better. I still think a 15-20% scaled up original 40 would be awesome and appealing to many.
2:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UAnlMNvK8Y
I never wanted to be shorter ever before in my life!
The Ford GT is still small, although much better. I still think a 15-20% scaled up original 40 would be awesome and appealing to many.
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Mike
Lifetime Supporter
I owned a Ford GT. They are by no means small. Clarkson used to bitch all the time about them being too big. I'm 6'2 and fit in my SPF GT40 fine. It's not roomy but its not suppose to be. There are cars that meet your needs well. I am struggling to understand your fixation with taking a 1960s race car and making it into something it was never intended to be.
Exactly what Mike and Randy said. This subject has been beat to death. A previous member had your same thoughts for whatever reason. If I remember correctly when his website was up and running in 2007, he wanted like $600,000.00 for his dream machine. Here is a link back to when he was posting. http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-build-logs/16306-progress-giant-one-off-large-gt40.html
Notice in the link, it is called giant one off. He was last here :::
Last Activity: 31st July 2014 01:13 AM
So with inflation, drop about $750,000.00 and build it your way, or just buy a new Corvette and be done with it. It is a REPLICA of a 60's race car.
Notice in the link, it is called giant one off. He was last here :::
Last Activity: 31st July 2014 01:13 AM
So with inflation, drop about $750,000.00 and build it your way, or just buy a new Corvette and be done with it. It is a REPLICA of a 60's race car.
I have seen that build before, but it's unfortunately not scaled up equiaxially, meaning the shape isn't self-similar to the original one. The price is just silly.
I will have to keep looking around
Thanks everyone for their posts.