individual Weber screens

Jim Pearson

Lifetime Supporter
Can any of you explain (in simple language, please!) the effect of the taper and length of the trumpet - I think I've been told that a longer trumpet will yield more torque, although if this is the case there's presumably a trade-off.

I'm just wondering what the downside of a pronounced taper would be - in rough figures, a 70mm diameter has twice the surface area of a 50mm. So could a solution to the mesh question be a large diameter, highly tapered, trumpet carrying either a flat (as Peter D suggested) or slightly domed (as per Bernard's first photo) mesh? Although, if I understand StanJ's point correctly, there will always some reduction in efficiency whenever mesh (or other filter medium???) is employed.

Stan, wot's WOT?

Jim
 
Restricted surface area is not the only issue. As I understand it, the air flow around the top rim of the trumpet is important so by fitting these tea strainers you will alter the air flow and lose some performance.

But having said that, I've been using these tea strainers now for a few years with some track work too and the difference in performance is not dramatic. I couldn't "feel" the difference but it probably could be measured on a dyno or with a stop watch.

The question about grit and the reduced life of the engine is a good one too and was something that did play on my mind. I also get asked the question regularly so I'm constantly being reminded. But I figure if it lasts 50,000km between rebuilds, that would equate to six years or more for the amount of driving it gets. And lets face it, these engines in road trim don't cost all that much to freshen up. Incidentally, I have done about 25,000Km so far after three years and the engine is just starting to feel like its loosening up, so I think it has a long long way to go before it needs a rebuild (I hope these aren't the famous last words :) ).
 
... how did you do the clamping rings, & are they removeable ? ...
Hi Peter, I will try to explain to you through mi vague language how to proceed to do it. However, I have to say that the medium result don't justify the time that you will spend to do it. The mesh is crimped on the trumpet with ring of aluminum sheet cutted because the trumpet is made of cast aluminum and it is not easy to weld the mesh on. You need to made your own special tool (see pictures) and to use a press to bend an aluminum sheet (0.03" of thickness) like an angle ring (3/16" x 3/16"). Then, you have to cut a circle of mesh (3" of diameter) and to place it in your special tool between the angle ring and the trumpet. With a small hammer, you have to bend the angle ring to crimp the mesh below the trumpet. Then with a cutter (or better a Dremel), you cut the excess of mesh wich extends the aluminum crimped ring. This screen is not easily removable but it is possible to do it. You have just to cut the aluminum crimped ring :D
On the picture 1 you can see 3 Weber horn for IDF carb
- Number 1 is original made of iron sheet
- Number 2 is after market made of cast aluminum
- Number 3 is an original model that I have modified to increase the hood clearance (I have a Cobra car, not a GT40 :eek: ).
On the picture 2 is the special tools you need. Internal and external diameters shall be adjusted according to the trumpet larger diameter and your aluminum sheet thickness.
My first test on picture 3 (not very nice :eek: )
Picture 4 is my lath that I use like a press to crimp the aluminum ring
 

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Howard Jones

Supporter
I think that one thing that has been missed, or at least I missed it, so far is that even if the restriction caused by the screen is 50% you can still flow 100% by increasing the screen area by double.

This can be done by making the opening in the screen through which the air must flow bigger and shaping it like half of a ball much like the set on the DFV seen above in this thread.

The worst case is a flat screen stretched across the top of the trumpet. Some of the strainers used must be at least 50% restrictive and likely much more so. Not to say that they don't work somewhat to keep out large pebbles but they certainly don't do anything to prevent engine wear due to ingesting dust.

As far as how long they might reduce engine life. Consider a trip of 100 miles down the freeway. Nice clean air, no dirt in the air etc. As you arrive at your destination you must turn off the highway onto a less traveled road and at one point cross a few yards of dusty road left by a homeowner digging a new planter.

Those few seconds of dusty road will produce more wear than the previous 100 miles.

I know they really look good, I love the look of a set of Weber's with velocity stacks on them but a good quality air filer is the way to go.

Somebody a couple of years ago had a clear box with filters elements in the sides of it covering up a 8 stack setup. Very good idea. A oval turkey pan with a clear top and sides made of filter material would also work very well. Much less restrictive also. If I ever can afford a set of Webers thats what I'm gonna do.
 
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I have the TWM setup, and I thought the dimensions you guys were giving were a bit small. I measured mine and got the dimensions in the pic. At 3 1/4" at the lip, I figured the strainers were not going to work out for me. I went on a Google search for "tea strainers" and got a lot of hits. Unfortunately, there were few that would tell you the size other than tell you it would fit the rim of a cup. After a while I found this site.

Tea Infusers, Strainers & Accessories

They give you the different sizes of the strainers. Some in two or more sizes. There are a couple that will work out, but for attaching them I think it will involve a tiny sheetmetal screw in the rim. I don't have any fabrication skills for fitting a rim to the stacks. So I will have to use either some silicone or the screws. Some of these handled ones might be altered to use part of the handle as a hold down???

Bill
 

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Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
I have been using the orange foam sock type filters, which are effective but look horrible.

After reading this thread I spent last weekend making up the tea strainer type which look terrific.

Now after reading Howard's post I am worried about dust and wear.
Has anyone had a long term experience with the tea strainers?

I'm not talking track cars that do an engine freshen after every couple of races, but long term road use.
I seem to be clocking up about 5000 miles per year on mostly bitumen.
 
Pete,

How often and how much dust are you cleaning out of the deck under your rear windscreen? I would think that would be a good indicator of how much "stuff" your intake is subjected to.

I never have run anything on my sidedraft weber Alfa Romeo race car. I rebuild every couple of years, but it seems like everything else wears out faster than the piston sleeves and valve seats so I figure if I keep the kitty litter and parts falling off the english cars I'm lapping out of my trumpets, it's all good! ;)

Andy
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Thanks Andy,
I don't seem to collect a lot of dust in that area so it might be OK. Having said that I am a compulsive with the dust rag so it doesn't get time to build up.
I was thinking back to my younger days and remember that most of the bikes I had in those days ran side draught Amal's with no filter, and I cant remember any problems.
 

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Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
Pete, put a filter element in the side inlets... that should help some... any photos of your tea strainers? my MKII tea strainer should be with me tomorrow.

Andy
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
I ducked home at lunch time and took some photos, the first is the orange foam socks, the rest are the tea strainers and the last is while I was at it I fitted stone guards to the side air inlets.
 

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This is the filter type I have now. Wide thick mesh and held in place by molded rubber rings. The second two photos show the box the strainers come in and what they look like.
 

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I ground off the thin clasp that holds the two halves together and the chain loops using a Dremel & grinding stone. I tried a burr and a cut-off wheel but the stone was quicker and easier to smooth with. One note- I held the disk in a vice the first time and that left a crease in the soft metal. It’s much easier just to hold the part in your hand while you grind. It took about five minutes to do the whole part.

The box reads 6 cm which would be 2.36 cm, but that’s the ring ID. The outer lip of my bell is 2.95 in, and these fit perfectly. I have extended length stacks though, and I don’t know if my diameter is common. The strainers are available in different sizes- just keep in mind the size evidently refers to the sphere diameter, not the rim.

To attach the screen to the stacks I used blue RTV gasket maker. I considered several other adhesives, but I think the silicone will hold up well and I won’t have to worry about a set screw or chunk of epoxy coming loose and going through the carb.
 

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This is the final result. The strainers I used were from acme_kitchen (no affiliation with me) on eBay and cost $7.50 a pair ($15.00 for 8 carbs). I’ve asked the owner if she’ll give board members a discount, and if she will, I’ll post details here. The only real downside I see is that the mesh is fine and softer than the thick screen I had—about what you’d see on a window screen. At that price, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get an extra set in case you need a replacement.
John
 

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This string reminds me of a string on the ffcobra forum. One guy made a filter a lot like the top one in John Fitzpatric's post only with a paper element he cut out of a larger air filter with a wire mesh to reinforce it. His goal was to get finer filtration then just a wire mesh. One day he popped the hood and one of the filters was gone. The whole thing got sucked into the engine and made its way past the valve one piece at a time.
 
Jonathan, I think he said he watched with great dismay the element get sucked through the wire mesh as he was working the throttle with his hand!

I'm using the restrictive wire mesh filters on my stack EFI and I notice a big difference in afr on my wide band when I remove the filter. It went from .95 lambda to 1.02 at idle. Here's a pick of my set up in my coupe. I want to use the same in my GT40, but I have the same concerns people in this thread have about air flow:

coupe1-2-06026.jpg
 

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
This is getting silly... grown men stealing home to take pictures of tea strainers during the day, or waiting for a parcel to arrive so they can play with them when they get home ;-)


Ok second batch of screen filters..... just for you UK guys...

Much better than the first set...

Supplier....

Cookshop UK - Headcook and Bottlewasher Kaiser Patisserie Range Tea ball infuser strainer 7.5cm

Total of £10.75 (that includes postage!) for 4x75mm infusers, note the 75mm is the outside rim on this one, the inner diameter is 65mm. Difficult to estimate the open area but the end of a g string goes through it ( 14 thou diameter steel wire) and a d string dosent (22 thou). See that Ibanez aint just for show!!! lol

Carefully prised off the hinge piece and then used pliers to twist the pin under the latch until it twisted off. The latch and remaining part of the swaged pin lifted off, 3 minutes all done.

Just not sure I want to glue them on though....

Andy
 

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Doc, no wonder your sneaking home at midday, all this talk of 'G ' strings etc.
I must be out of touch , what is a 'D' string.

Had a stock car engine once that we built up the intake port floor with epoxy & SS mesh for reinforcement, after a couple of seasons the epoxy was past its use by date and exited along with the mesh thru the exhaust. Left a nice cross hatch pattern on the piston crown squish area, other than that no real damage.

Jac Mac
 
If you guys are after a specific size strainer mesh (micron) or diameter you can make your own by making a dye from hardwood or alloy and press the dye into the mesh with a die rubber under it.
It will contour the die pefectly.
If it were me I would look at a disk lower down the trumpet to attach one half of the ball strainer to.
Then the other half would act as a lid and flip over.
On a flow bench I played around with injectors in the entrys of trumpets and more loss was found by putting your finger on the enge of the trumpet roll than the injector down the middle.
Conclusion air comes up over the sides a bit like a tornado with a dead spot in the middle at the top only.
Bottom line keep the mesh of the radius of the trumpet.

Jim
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Doc, no wonder your sneaking home at midday, all this talk of 'G ' strings etc.
I must be out of touch , what is a 'D' string.Jac Mac

Guitar string, Jac. 6 string guitars come with E, A, D, G, B, and E strings, in order from largest (lowest pitch) to smallest (highest pitch). The ones I use on my acoustic are from .053 to .013, the ones on my electric are .048 to .011. I never thought about using them for measuring the ID of an opening, though. Cool idea, Doc!

Doug
 
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