Interesting perspective...I agree...

[Fran Hall RCR]

Quoted from Pistonheads in the UK...
I think this holds true for most of us on this forum ....GT40...Lola....Pantera...whatever...


These days you really can have it all, your coffee can have extra everything, you can send an email from a park bench and you don’t need to leave home to do the weekly shop. Long gone are the days when you needed a specific tool for a specific job, or had to choose what you wanted an item to do.



Neighbours 'delighted' by another noisy V8
About six years ago I had my first drive of a Lamborghini after years of dreaming about the Countach and being in no doubt that a Diablo would kill me immediately due to my lack of driving prowess. I was nervous as my drive was to take me down a soaking wet motorway from Manchester to London and the car I was driving was a Gallardo with E-gear and it was ... easy. Too easy. Audi climate control kept the screen clear, I could see out of the large mirrors, the ’box was simple to use and it was all rather pleasant. Within 30 minutes I was listening to Radio 2 with relaxed posture and that was that. Sure it would go fast but it was happy playing the role of cruiser. Try that in a Countach. It seems the modern mainstream supercar has become a very simple tool to use; there are exceptions of course but I’m speaking broadly.



SLS truly great but TVR still thrills
Right now there is an SLS Roadster sitting in the PH car park which has 571hp from a rather vocal V8, it can travel at 197mph and gets to 60mph in 3.8 seconds. If I handed the keys to my nan (who has an automatic only licence) she could drive it home happily holding up queues of traffic at 22mph as she peers over the wheel. It’s that easy to drive. I love the SLS with all my heart and scariness is merely a few button presses away, but this is a genuine supercar you could drive with one arm on the armrest, at 30mph listening to The Archers without breaking a sweat. (Or go to the ’ring and lap in 7:40, same as a 911 GT3 – Ed.)

A few weeks prior I was in a Caterham for the commute. It was hot, it was loud, the clutch hated traffic and the harnesses ruined my shirt. When I finally managed to prise myself out of it my clothes smelt of exhaust fumes. You were left in no doubt as to the fact that you were driving something made for track use before road use. Same goes for the TVR in a way, the clutch gets a bit upset with too much crawling traffic, the cabin gets hot and it still commands my respect in damp corners to this day. But, if I want to travel any distance in comfort I’ll take the Lexus, the TVR isn’t owned as a do-it-all car.


Not quite as user friendly but more thrilling
In an age where anything and everything is possible I miss the reputation that supercars used to have. When I take one out I want it to make me sweat, I want it to make my palms sticky and for it to sit on the drive growling as it scares pedestrians and gives the impression it wants to kill me and run off with the Mrs. I’m not sure I’m ready to have my flat white extra shot in a cupholder next to my iPhone as the car drives me along in comfort at 180mph while I rush back to meet the chap from Ocado … not yet anyway.

Garlick

 

[Ben Whittle]

Yep I read that and thought exactly the same.

Of course I've never *driven* a Lambo of any sort nor an SLS for that matter...

 

[Ben]

For whatever reason, they've disconnected the driver from the driving experience in new vehicles. Heck, my wife's Lexus is so quiet and numbing that I can hear my own heartbeat.

In the Lotus I owned, I could feel my heartbeat....in my throat! Now that's driving!

 

[Cliff Beer]

Totally agree.

Even worse, now the car is doing half of the driving! There's launch control, stability control, electronic diffs, traction control, etc....it goes on an on. Get anywhere near the edge and the car is doing more of the driving than you are!! All these systems make the car much more benign and controlled....and faster by quite a bit.

My problem with it all is two fold: i) it's complex and expensive, and ii) worse yet, these systems make average, or even poor drives, seem/appear to be skilled. They think they're actually a good driver. Nah, you're still a poor driver with mediocre car control skills, you're just rich enough to write a big check for all these behind-the-scenes electronic aids. I don't want any of this crap, I want to be 100% in control of the car, and I don't need any electronic wizardry to make me look good. This junk deadens the experience by decreasing the opportunity to get the car right on the edge, or over it, and it's just a bunch wasted space and expense and weight.

There's a lot of dentists and accountants driving ferraris at track days who really have no clue what they're doing, but they don't stuff it into the guardrail because the car takes over right at the edge and reigns in their ham-fisted driving. It's really pretty pathetic.

 

[Keith]

There's a lot of dentists and accountants driving ferraris at track days who really have no clue what they're doing, but they don't stuff it into the guardrail because the car takes over right at the edge and reigns in their ham-fisted driving. It's really pretty pathetic.

Wot? No lawyers? :squint:

 

[Ben Whittle]

What I find most disconcerting is such things is the ability to detect when the driver is falling asleep or, when the driver is drifting into another lane and now cars have the ability to park themselves.

It's called dumbing down and whilst it would be difficult to convince a parent who has lost their child in a car accident to someone who fell asleep at the wheel, ultimately these 'driver aids' are preventing Darwin from doing his thing and helping improve the gene pool by removing people from it...

Back to the point about how a car feels, I've been in my friends Lamborghini Diablo (in fact this is it here being filmed on the Top Gear UK set for that Lamborghini special episode they had: https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/263413_10150672743615576_758705575_19098522_6735220_n.jpg )

And even just sitting in the passenger seat while he drives it I could tell it was a monster and required very careful attention, even when driving it around town. It was hard work for a car of that level of performance but at the time it was normal.

Are modern cars any less credible just because they aren't stuffy inside, don't have unnecessarily heavy steering or clutch pedal? Have air con and sat nav? As the saying goes, any fool can be uncomfortable.

I'm sure you could build an SL-C to be grumpy to start, unreliable, uncompromising and brutal in every sense of the word but why would you? With an LS3, air con and a sat nav system, I'm sure it can be as easy to drive as a Corvette around town.

The idea that it a 'supercar' is only good if it can put hair on your chest is complete and utter tosh in this day and age, and don't feel like you have any less of a car because it isn't a bitch to drive.

I do prefer the simplicity of the SL-C vs something like a GT-R however, don't get me wrong the GT-R really is 'Godzilla' but the idea of cars like these having components fail outside of warranty is getting worrying...

I'll have my SL-Cake and eat it.

 

[James]

I think supercars have evolved a bit over the decades, yes there are a lot of exceptions, but I think the expectation is there. Yes, I was bored so just put up a post.

70's - The Look- --------------------------------------------Miura, Daytona
80's - Top Speed + Looks----------------------------------Countach, Testarossa,
90's - Handling + Top Speed + Looks----------------------F40/F50, Mclaren F1, Murcielago
2000's - "Livable" + Handling + Top Speed + Looks------R8, MP4, Veyron, Aventador

 

[Mike]

I think there are a few exceptions to the rule. The modern day Ford GT and Dodge Viper had nary the nanny controls some dislike. That said my GT while possessing the put you into the tall grass in the blink of an eye, was far more comfortable and refined than my SPF. They have been the last of the breed though as the GT ceased production years ago and their numbers are dwindling as more and more are wrapped around telephone poles. The new Viper will come with all the nanny controls it was never burdened with in the past as mandated by law now. Which do I prefer my GT or SPF? That could be a lengthy discussion

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

"What I find most disconcerting is such things is the ability to detect when the driver is falling asleep or, when the driver is drifting into another lane and now cars have the ability to park themselves." quote Ben Whittle

How are we supposed to "thin the herd"?

My Kirkham with 285 extra hp was handful as the German MVD inspector that took it for a test drive found out!
Driving that car was a hoot!

 

[John Ross]

I mostly agree. However, a driver skilled at threshold braking can still easily flat-spot ONE tire if the road surface is even the tiniest bit uneven, as I found out twice on roadrace courses in my '96 Viper GTS. I cannot condemn ABS in high-powered cars.

JR

 

[René]

ABS is a big plus for me, also on slippery conditions you can still steer a bit and brake.

 

[Brian Mc]

Being luckily in southern California, I have had the opportunity to drive in some of these modern sports cars. I rode in a LP640 Lambo and asked the owner driver to get on it. He said "I am!". It was pretty boring. Same with the new Aston Martin and new Maserati.

Give me a car with the throttle pedal connected directly to the engine. I don't want a computer to decide how much throttle to give the motor - I want to decide.

Get on the throttle in a 800 HP Cobra roadster and your eyeballs hurt and you are grinning from ear to ear. Anybody who rides in the car cannot stop smiling. That is a sports car.

They can keep the new computer-controlled cars.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

No ABS or TC on F1 cars this year supposedly.....

 

[Dusty]

I agree, as I believe all of us are RCR customers, or potential ones wanting true supercars with spartan interiors and creature comforts. Or at least something that weighs far less than most street production cars can approach without completely being gutted. Though the older Vettes and Viper have little provision for safety. ABS was as good as it gets with pre-92 Vettes, and Viper didn't even get ABS till what, Gen II?

 

[Doc Kaler]

Yep, GenII got ABS. My ACR used a sphygmomanometer bulb to pump up the lumbar support......:thumbsup:

 

[Gabriel Von Wahl]

Amen - like when I drove the K3 around on the street. Every time I got in I wasn't sure if I'd live to get out...never felt so alive. Here was how I got in the car:

Open hood - connect power key
Open Door, swing over door bars & 2' wide rocker panel
Put the steering wheel on
Clip up the 6 point harness
flip 6 switches on the roof for Elec, Ign, Fuel etc.
Put on David Clark aviation headset
Push start button and hang on for dear life

 

[Chris]

ABS is a big plus for me, also on slippery conditions you can still steer a bit and brake.

yeah, the exception to the rule IMHO

 

[John Milmont]

I think different people want their car to be different things. For instance, I believe everyone posting in this thread probably wants a race car that they can drive on the street. A race car for the street is what the author of the original post seems to be describing.

This is in stark contrast to what i would say 90% of Lambo and Ferrari owners want - which is a cool looking car that is comfortable and has lots of power. How many exotic car owners actually take their car to the track? Obviously, the priorities of those cars is different than what everyone here wants. Because only a small fraction of those owners track their cars, it only makes sense that Lamborghini and Ferrari make their car less 'raw'. Hell, they even got rid of putting manual transmissions in their cars since most people who own them cant drive stick!

But, I have to disagree with what 496fe is saying about the lp640. I have driven that car and i can attest that it can get really scary really fast. I guess if you drive 800hp 2400lb Cobra's, the 640hp lambo is going to feel slow. What the lambo does impressively is because its a road car. For instance I can take a date to dinner and get great parking. I can drive in rainy cold weather. I have an AC system that works for hot days. It rides impressively smooth for how low it is, and I can drive it for a long time without getting worn out. I don't think you can do any of these in a 800hp Cobra. And not only does it do these things, its pretty damn fast too.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Ditto what Gabriel said.

It's like Winston Churchill used to say, there's nothing so exhilarating as being shot at, and narrowly missed.

 

[danie l.avicola]

What the lambo does impressively is because its a road car. For instance I can take a date to dinner and get great parking. I can drive in rainy cold weather. I have an AC system that works for hot days. It rides impressively smooth for how low it is, and I can drive it for a long time without getting worn out. I don't think you can do any of these in a 800hp Cobra. And not only does it do these things, its pretty damn fast too.

But you can in an SLC :thumbsup:

I do love some of the cars Lambo, Ferrari, ect come out with but as an engineer I am drawn to the focus in design of cars built for a specific purpose. The problem outlined above is something trying to be too many things to too many people.