Is This Normal?

[Bill D]

Is it normal to have so many problems with building a GT40? I seem to run into some problem at every turn?

The fuel level gauges are screwed up (1 partially works the other doesn't at all)
The speedo won't work
We had the wrong flywheel and clutch
Then we couldn't get it back into the car with w/o surgery applied to the bellhousing.
Then it was the wheel bearing/studs/pins (my fault there)
Now it's the starter!

There are many, many more that I didn't list

Is this normal or am I expecting too much?

Thanks
Really frustrated Bill

 

[Al Jones]

It is,after all,a handbuilt car,not a production line item.Some of the things you surely have our sympathy on,like the starter,which you can't see coming.The best defense against random failure is intensely fastidious preparation.Not saying you did something wrong,just that every piece in a race car should be looked at as a potential source of failure.It's possible that you can fix the starter without too much expense.The bellhousing - maybe a few trial fittings would have turned up the problem,but I'm not there to say.The Webers - just pick another thread and you'll find everybody with Webers is rowing the same boat.And you're the one suffering the frustration now.It might be me tomorrow.It does seem to be overwhelming at times but the best way to approach it is like anything else we do, one problem or part of a problem at a time. In retrospect you have a fantastic car,it just needs sorting out and patience. A.J.

 

[Jac Mac]

Bill, I have never 'built' a GT40, but it comes down to how much basic mechanical understanding you have-- you will note I did NOT mention knowledge. I dont think anyone would say that the GT is an easy car to build. If I can be critical without wishing to offend you ( or any others for that matter ) , your own 'weak' area is in how different parts interact with one another and what sort of loads etc are imposed on different parts of a car, especially when you use them in situations other than originally intended for. The replica GT40 is 'full' of parts etc that are being asked to work with other non-matched pieces. Your starter episode is a classic case where some folk on here suggested that a sandwich plate was not reqd---It is with a Ford as its the only true index the starter pinion has for the ring gear in use, the bolts alone are not accurate enough-- and until you actually have 'hands on' experience of these sort of problems you cannot visualise what cure will be reqd. This automotive lark is a cruel passion- the harder you try- the more it seems to fight you, but when it all does gel and go right its hard to wipe the grin off your face.

 

[Dimi Terleckyj]

Hi Bill

As Al stated and I agree totally.
These are handbuilt cars and not just any car so there will be problems.

The best way to approach the build of a 40 (or any other car really) is to concentrate on the part or system you are currently working on and totally complete that part of the puzzle before moving on to the next.

Time and time again I see guys doing 10 different jobs all at once, getting confused or distracted, and then having major problems not with one thing but all the things they were working on.

DO NOT PART FINISH SOMETHING AND THINK "I WILL GET BACK TO THAT LATER AFTER DOING SOMETHING ELSE", It doesn't work.

Dimi

 

[Ian Anderson]

Bill

You are not alone.

My car is coming up to 3 years on the road

I tore out a drive shaft (CV bolts worked lose)
EFi was done so many times I lost count and it is drivable but not perfect
Brakes work well - even better for feel once I took off the boosters
Gauges - speedo works well - if you are worried put a satnav i the car and run with that
I have one fuel tank that does not register on the Guage but figured out if I use that tank first and when I sucks air (pump changes noise) I switch to the other tank where the gauge works
Steering UK needed adjusted
Ventilation extensively worked
Gearbox used more oil than the engine burnt fuel for the first few trips until I found the plug that was not sealing.
Suspension bolts found loose
Caliper Bolts worked loose
Engine mount Bolts came loose
Fan belt broke
Water Pump failed
Water hose came off
Main feed master switch failed
Brake Light swithc failed
Number plate light "fell apart"

The car has 3000 miles on it

But hell I have enjoyed more miles than the problems and made some fantastic runs in the car and I now tinker and check bits all the time and if anything is loose get the spanner on and tighten it and use Loktite everywhere - nothing has so far come loose a second time and where something happened on one side I have corrected it and done the same on the other side Time consuming and backbreaking at times but I consider it all part of teht GT40 experience.

So yes I would say your car is doing OK and no doubt you will get over the niggles and have many miles of enjoyment.

That said my car has only been rescued twice - once on the way back from SVA where it spewed coolant out and the other when the driveshaft gipped out - the rest I have limped hoome - but always made sure I have breakdown insurance for "Justin"

Ian

 

[BOB JONES]

Bill.

No one ever said it would be easy.But rest assured the finished product is well worth the pain.

Bob

 

[Schneider Mike]

Hi frustrated Bill

Your problems are normal, so have a search to your motivation....

and GO ON!!!!!!

I figth now over a year with so little things like plumbing fuel tanks,
new cooling pipes, pedalassembly, paneeling the frame, set new tankcaps and a complete new electric harness and so on.

Some times i have a little motivation help from some of my friends, they come over and we do some tirekickingandbeernuckling and we dream about the coming driverseason.


Good Luck on your project !!!!!!



Mike S

 

[Jonathan Strain]

Bill, I have had my share of problems. I have been on the side of the road fixing fuel starvation issues multiple times. I have had check valves stick open, and stick shut. The stuck open check valve overfilled one of the tanks when the other pump started transferring fuel from one tank to the other. I have had debris in the carbs multiple times causing the needle and seats to fail open. The carb would stick open slightly causing the car to idle at over 2000RPM. I finally had to replace the carb due to the plating in the carb failing. I had a fuel pump that would randomly loose its prime. That finally fixed itself (that always worries me when an intermittent problem goes away without any action on my part). I had an AC line fail due to rubbing another line. I lost a belt when the AC compressor was not tightened down after repairing the line. I have stripped 3 of the 6 bolts on one of the driveshaft flanges before I finally lock wired them. I had a heater line come off a bulkhead fitting in the cab filling the foot-well with coolant. I forgot to latch the rear bonnet and had to repaint the rear clip. All of these were after completing the car.

During the build I had numerous issues. Fran pretty much sent me a complete replacement for the front suspension because multiple parts that were sent originally were not right (by the way Fran was very supportive and quick to correct all those issues.) My throw-out bearing adaptor from KEP was machined incorrectly and it took more than 8 hours to remove the bad one after I pressed it in. That was after I spent 2 days trying to figure out what the problem was. I am sure I have forgotten many problems, but that is all part of the build.

I don’t consider a kit car completely sorted out until I stop worrying if I will make it to my destination without a tow. So far I have been lucky enough to be able to limp the car home or repair it on the side of the road. I have about 3,000 miles on the car now, and I think it is pretty well sorted out now. Time will tell if I am overconfident on that.

Now I am starting that journey again. I bought a GTM about a year ago. So far I have not accomplished much but it is starting to kick into gear now. I hope to have a go cart by late spring and start paint and body work in the summer.

 

[Tim Kay]

Yea, your not alone Bill. Ditto, I've had my share of problems (from suspension to paint and everything in between) as mentioned above.

Here's only one, Tilton carbon fiber clutch, custom flywheel, concentric t\o bearing: after sending starter, trans housing and adapter plate for fitment.....oh, and don't let me forget, close to $5,000.....starter would not mate to flywheel. Turned out Tilton made an incorrect assumption about starter and trans without actually fitting it even though they had the necessary parts in front of them. Giving Tilton credit, they put a little effort in addressing the issue (at my expense of course) suggesting a different starter but to this day it is still not 100% correct.

I have to say, even with all the issues some of the best moments were in bed at night or early in the morning just imagining the end results. Some of you morons are going to take that statement too far, I know. I do have other great moments in bed, I swear.

 

[Neal]

:sad: Fuel gauges didn't work properly.
:sad: Fuel filters weeped gas
:sad: Shifter took three attempts to get it close. Still not completely happy.
:sad: Seating position is off. (After seats were upholstered.)
:sad: Header flange shifted during welding causing an exhaust leak.
:sad: Two sets of front tires till they fit properly.
:sad: Countless hours staring at challenges thinking about solutions.

rockonsmile Miles of driving enjoyment!

Hang in there.

 

[Ross Nicol]

I know what you mean Tim. I totally agree with the comments made here regarding issues that have to be overcome. I think, also, it's these same reasons, why, it is impossible for a kit supplier to produce an effective manual. There are so many areas of frustration when building these cars that lots of bed time thinking is required. I'm observing a very tired Russ Noble (at the moment) trying desperately to finish his car and every day a new problem develops and slows the progress somewhat.
My advice is to keep going and avoid getting depressed by problems which will inevitably be solved. This forum is a great place to turn to for help with just about anything, including motivation.

Ross in New Zealand:thumbsup:

 

[Ron Earp]

My throw-out bearing adaptor from KEP was machined incorrectly and it took more than 8 hours to remove the bad one after I pressed it in. That was after I spent 2 days trying to figure out what the problem was. I

KEP has caused more mid engined kit car builders headaches than any one single source. That is a pure 100% business opportunity in the US.

Someone needs to come along, open up shop, and provide proper adapter/flywheel/clutch/starter pieces on time that work correctly. I'm sure some of the businesses in the overseas could do the job, but they need to be based in the US for accessibily, particularily for the buggy/sand rail market that isn't used to buying out of country.

 

[Howard Jones]

Yes, Completely redesigned and developed brakes with new custom made hats different rotors and calipers. The fronts twice. Starter fell off the car on the race track at over a 100 miles per hour. Came back to the pits with a funny vibration and starter hanging from cable and 2 or 3 threads on one bolt. This was a result of masive vibration caused when rear main bearing in a new 3000 mile SVO motor spun. New starter, new crank, full rebuild on motor.

GTD suspension geometery is very bad stock. Again completely redesigned new adjustable front upper a-arms, rear upper suspension links and mounting brackets, replaced leaking crap stock GTD shocks and springs, re-designed both antiroll bars to be adjustable, replaced orginal wheels and tires with 17 inch type to be able to buy decent tires.

Eight months of bodywork because I couldn't afford to pay someone $10K plus to do it for me.

Broke front windshield by storing it under the bed. Frack!!!!!

This was the big stuff there were at least a dozen other things that came along that took weeks to resolve.

Made the best friends I've have ever had. Had the most fun I've have ever had.

Sorry no pain no gain. You can always give me a call if you need help. I can't promise I can but I will try. Hang in there buddy. Some times you got to stop for the day and drink a beer.

 

[Scott Calabro]

I must say I have not run into any of these issue's.

Everything worked correctly right out of the crate.

My build was straight forward and simple.

Six months after its arrival it was driving down the road.

Only two times so far on the road I had problems, a fuel pressure regulator jam-nut came loose, and I burnt a condenser but thats it. Both times the car came home under its own power.

I now have over 300 miles since then with no hassles.

The biggest difficulty were the IDF's, but even then they are really part of the experience of multiple carbs :thumbsup:.

Best,
S

 

[speed220mph]

Bill,

It's normal. I'd look at it like an initiation into the club. Having built or have been directly involved in many builds, that's the way it is. But look at it this way: You'll be ready for the next build by knowing what to expect . . . more or less. And when you encounter a problem, you'll be able to deal with it and not agonize over the problem. Just look at it as though you're having fun. It's a challenge.

 

[Bill Hara]

Hey Bill, are you starting to see the pattern here?
Everyone except the most experienced has some sort of major issue to contend with but EVERYONE has minor issues.
I classify myself as a 1st time builder with plenty of drive but not much experience and as a result I have done some pretty stupid things that have caused me endless grief and frustration. It's a big list for me and is the reason I have done so few miles in 18 months....
- Crunched valve train/ timing chain / lifters when I dialed cam in incorrectly (New valve assembly installed)
- worn bearings when I assumed the flywheel was correctly balanced (pulled engine apart and re-built it
- studs on adapter plate for knock offs were suppied incorrectly causing large play in the wheel to hub connection. Required new studs and the wheels to be machined to accept new studs.
- Speedo not working (still being diagnosed.....)
- fuel gauges inaccurate, required a family member to "rescue" me on the freeway (both gauges showed 1/4 tank but were empty, I'll have to pull senders out and adjust float level and run 1 tank dry at a time to see whether they improve....)

All the above has happened with less than 300 miles on the car and has been incredibly frustrating for me, but we all have to step back and recognise that we are not an OEM facility with millions for testing and proofing our work.

Your attention to detail on the car's finish will come to the fore as the mechanical side of things get sorted and your enjoyment levels will begin to increase.
As the other guys have said, one problem at a time, one step at a time...

Keep the faith.
-

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Can't wait 'til I get to the point where the car is driving and pieces are falling off of it.......I've been working on 1149 for NINE years, most of that time it's been elsewhere, we are still fitting all the pieces together (the ones we have) and finding the ones we don't have- that's going better, but it takes a while. This car is not a kit, it has been created de novo, so I expect things will be even more complex. There is no manual. We are writing it as we go along, I suppose.

I have to say that with my Kirkham Cobra, the process of sorting it out was pretty painless. Most of the difficulties we had stemmed from the fact that I had an engine builder who knew very little about Fords and made a number of really idiotic mistakes. This project is far more complicated, clearly, but we have slowly moved along.

The payoff, I guess, is that when you are done, you know a lot more than you did at the beginning, you have a car very few other people have, and when something breaks, you know how to fix it. Maybe the whole process is best thought of as character development and entertainment as opposed to just working on a car.

 

[Ivan]

"if it can go wrong...... it usually will"

 

[Bill D]

Well, I feel a lot better knowing that my situation is not unique. Some of these "gremlins" are evasive like the fuel level senders and the speedo. All the wires are correct, but problems still exist. I'm not sure why the starter (possibly) failed. It can't move because it's positioned in the hole in the sandwich plate.

There are other problems but I don't want to think about them now. I'll take everyone's advice and tackle each one until it's resolved.

Driving the car was incredible. I guess that's why I wish there weren't any problems so I could drive it around.

 

[Dave Lindemann]

Bill -

Please don't lose faith. From everything I've seen on this forum you have an amazing car that just needs some dialing in. You've obviously never owned a Lotus! Not to make light of your frustrations in any way but when I was dialing in my Lotus Esprit S1 after a full rebuild I had AAA on speed dial. Seriously, for the first 2 seasons (I live in MN) it seemed like the car spent more time on the back of a flatbed than being driven. Unfortunately, most component/exotic/specialty cars may not immediately drive like a Toyota (from a reliability standpoint). But once they are dialed-in LOOK OUT because they are amazing fun! You've received some good advice here - take one issue at a time, work it through (get help when you are stuck) and move on to the next issue. I can't wait for you to have your 40 sorted.

Dave L