Glad to know, I did not know it was collapsible, I was already working the project in my mind, the steering shaft would be a formidable spear in a front collision . Thanks again for the info .Yes I have the oldsmobile shaft that came with my kit .
Joel K
Supporter
Hector, below is a detailed parts explosion for the RCR supplied column. I circled the collapsible section...
Joel K
Supporter
Continuing the work to finish up the footbox and revisiting the pedal assembly.
Back on post 90 I covered the approach on adapting the Tilton pedal assembly to actuate a 2010 Camaro power brake booster. Although the initial design was pretty good there are a few issues with it and warrants a redesign. So I’ll consider the first design a prototype and remake some of the parts in this post.
Here is a video explaining why the prior version needed to be re-done, review and install of the new assembly....
1)The pedal ratio based on the bell-crank lever I scavenged from the Mopar kit created too low a pedal ratio. I calculated a 2.9 final pedal ratio where it really needs to be something between 3.5 and 3.8 based on the feedback from Johan. The stock Camaro pedal ratio is 3.8. So I’ll fabricate a new bell-crank lever with a different geometry.
2)Was not satisfied with the way the bell-crank bracket over lapped the base plate of the adjustable pedal slider. Ideally the bracket should have a bolt in front of the pivot point of the bell-crank lever since the force when applying the brakes is trying to lift the bell-crank bracket up from the front. The way I mounted it, it is secured from behind the pivot point which I just don’t think is ideal. I’ll remake the bell-crank bracket to be 1.25” longer and use a bolt forward of the bell-crank lever pivot point when attaching it to the floor pan.
3)Also, as luck turns out, the bolt mounting the front compartment floor to the chassis pan interferes with the bell crank bracket. Since I was going to remake the bracket based on issue number 2 above, I’ll use a 1/2” wider base which will allow that front compartment floor bolt to also secure the bell-crank bracket to the floor.
4)Since the redesigned bell-crank bracket is not going to overlap the base of the adjustable pedal assembly I had a choice of either moving the pedal assembly toward the driver by about 1.25” or change the design of the system. After thinking about it some more I decided to simplify the system and match it up better to what I really want to accomplish and need.
5)Lastly, was not sure if the NJ safety inspector would appreciate all the complexity of the adjustable pedal slider, bell-crank and multi-hole actuator rod. This was another consideration in changing and simplifying the design so I could pass NJ inspection.
The rational for the adjustable pedal assembly was to have the ability to really nail the forward/backward pedal location so I would be comfortable in the car. It wasn’t necessarily to have something instantly adjustable. Also, by introducing a power brake booster into the design the setup still requires you to duck deep into the footwell to move the slave pedal actuator rod to a different position.
So thinking more about the requirements decided to not use the RCR adjustable pedal slider and simply install a plate with multiple mounting holes where I can move the pedals forward or backward.
So here we go, pic of the before and after of the bell-crank lever. Pedal ratio goes from around 2.9 for the original one to 3.6 for the new lever.
Below are pics of the pedal ratio calculations. By having the middle hole on the slave pedal 68% as high as the top hole, you can adjust the Tilton pedal pads to get a final pedal ratio from 3.5 and up to 3.9. That’s a pretty good spread and should do the job.
Dimensions and pedal reduction ratio of the new bell-crank lever...
The various final pedal ratio calculations given the new bell-crank lever...
Pic of the before and after bell-crank bracket. This design allows the new bracket to be bolted to the floor in front of the bell-crank lever pivot point. Since it is .5” wider the front compartment floor pan bolt can also secure it to the floor pan...
Pic of the new adjustable pedal base vs. the RCR adjustable pedal slider. Both have about 6” of travel. The new adjustable pedal base has the holes spaced in 1.1125” increments so it can move back a total of 2.2” and forward 3.3” from the setting that is most comfortable for me...
Below is a pic of both assemblies for comparison. The New bell-crank actuator rod is made out of 1/4” steel bar for actual use. The aluminum one was just a prototype. Also, because I had to move the mounting point higher to get the desired pedal ratio, the longer multi-holed prototype rod now fouls the brake booster housing in the most forward position. So to further simply things decided to use an individual actuator rod for each pedal location...
Pic of new assembly with Tilton pedals mounted. I like the balance of adjustability while keeping the design simple...
Bell-crank lever and bracket installed in the chassis. Lines up nice with the brake booster. It was a little tricky to line up, measure 10 times and drill once!!!
Pedal assembly now placed in the foot-box, the wood section is there to insure a 1.5 degree angle so the pedal base match the angle of the steering column and seat. The design is to run bolts up from underneath the chassis to secure the adjustable base in place and screw the pedal assembly in from the top making this a one man job to install and remove...
Below is a pic from the front. I made the pedal mounting plate a little wider and longer than necessary to machine in a lip around the front and sides so carpeting could be tucked under giving it a finished look. I expect that after adding sound deadening, luxury liner, and carpeting the pedal plate will be at about the same height as the carpeting...
I’ll install it in place after I finalize the seat brackets which is next on the list.
Back on post 90 I covered the approach on adapting the Tilton pedal assembly to actuate a 2010 Camaro power brake booster. Although the initial design was pretty good there are a few issues with it and warrants a redesign. So I’ll consider the first design a prototype and remake some of the parts in this post.
Here is a video explaining why the prior version needed to be re-done, review and install of the new assembly....
1)The pedal ratio based on the bell-crank lever I scavenged from the Mopar kit created too low a pedal ratio. I calculated a 2.9 final pedal ratio where it really needs to be something between 3.5 and 3.8 based on the feedback from Johan. The stock Camaro pedal ratio is 3.8. So I’ll fabricate a new bell-crank lever with a different geometry.
2)Was not satisfied with the way the bell-crank bracket over lapped the base plate of the adjustable pedal slider. Ideally the bracket should have a bolt in front of the pivot point of the bell-crank lever since the force when applying the brakes is trying to lift the bell-crank bracket up from the front. The way I mounted it, it is secured from behind the pivot point which I just don’t think is ideal. I’ll remake the bell-crank bracket to be 1.25” longer and use a bolt forward of the bell-crank lever pivot point when attaching it to the floor pan.
3)Also, as luck turns out, the bolt mounting the front compartment floor to the chassis pan interferes with the bell crank bracket. Since I was going to remake the bracket based on issue number 2 above, I’ll use a 1/2” wider base which will allow that front compartment floor bolt to also secure the bell-crank bracket to the floor.
4)Since the redesigned bell-crank bracket is not going to overlap the base of the adjustable pedal assembly I had a choice of either moving the pedal assembly toward the driver by about 1.25” or change the design of the system. After thinking about it some more I decided to simplify the system and match it up better to what I really want to accomplish and need.
5)Lastly, was not sure if the NJ safety inspector would appreciate all the complexity of the adjustable pedal slider, bell-crank and multi-hole actuator rod. This was another consideration in changing and simplifying the design so I could pass NJ inspection.
The rational for the adjustable pedal assembly was to have the ability to really nail the forward/backward pedal location so I would be comfortable in the car. It wasn’t necessarily to have something instantly adjustable. Also, by introducing a power brake booster into the design the setup still requires you to duck deep into the footwell to move the slave pedal actuator rod to a different position.
So thinking more about the requirements decided to not use the RCR adjustable pedal slider and simply install a plate with multiple mounting holes where I can move the pedals forward or backward.
So here we go, pic of the before and after of the bell-crank lever. Pedal ratio goes from around 2.9 for the original one to 3.6 for the new lever.
Below are pics of the pedal ratio calculations. By having the middle hole on the slave pedal 68% as high as the top hole, you can adjust the Tilton pedal pads to get a final pedal ratio from 3.5 and up to 3.9. That’s a pretty good spread and should do the job.
Dimensions and pedal reduction ratio of the new bell-crank lever...
The various final pedal ratio calculations given the new bell-crank lever...
Pic of the before and after bell-crank bracket. This design allows the new bracket to be bolted to the floor in front of the bell-crank lever pivot point. Since it is .5” wider the front compartment floor pan bolt can also secure it to the floor pan...
Pic of the new adjustable pedal base vs. the RCR adjustable pedal slider. Both have about 6” of travel. The new adjustable pedal base has the holes spaced in 1.1125” increments so it can move back a total of 2.2” and forward 3.3” from the setting that is most comfortable for me...
Below is a pic of both assemblies for comparison. The New bell-crank actuator rod is made out of 1/4” steel bar for actual use. The aluminum one was just a prototype. Also, because I had to move the mounting point higher to get the desired pedal ratio, the longer multi-holed prototype rod now fouls the brake booster housing in the most forward position. So to further simply things decided to use an individual actuator rod for each pedal location...
Pic of new assembly with Tilton pedals mounted. I like the balance of adjustability while keeping the design simple...
Bell-crank lever and bracket installed in the chassis. Lines up nice with the brake booster. It was a little tricky to line up, measure 10 times and drill once!!!
Pedal assembly now placed in the foot-box, the wood section is there to insure a 1.5 degree angle so the pedal base match the angle of the steering column and seat. The design is to run bolts up from underneath the chassis to secure the adjustable base in place and screw the pedal assembly in from the top making this a one man job to install and remove...
Below is a pic from the front. I made the pedal mounting plate a little wider and longer than necessary to machine in a lip around the front and sides so carpeting could be tucked under giving it a finished look. I expect that after adding sound deadening, luxury liner, and carpeting the pedal plate will be at about the same height as the carpeting...
I’ll install it in place after I finalize the seat brackets which is next on the list.
Last edited:
Neil
Supporter
Nice work, Joel. I use 3M non-slip tape on my pedals and I like it. Cut to fit but the knife will be ruined. 
Joel K
Supporter
Nice work, Joel. I use 3M non-slip tape on my pedals and I like it. Cut to fit but the knife will be ruined.
Thanks Neil, the pedals did come with some non slip pads. Just not installed yet. But I may use the 3M on the floor area to help me get out of the car.
Joel K
Supporter
Thanks Dusty, how is your build coming along?
Joel K
Supporter
This post is part 1 of finalizing the seat mounts.
Back in post #68 I documented the challenge of fitting the stock RCR seats and brackets along with the side impact bars. Being 6’2” I need the seat all the way back. There is just not enough room for the stock seats and brackets to fit between the center console and side impact bars especially if you want the seat all the way back.
So I mocked up a design to move the base of each mounting bracket 1.5” inward and that helps move the seat up against the center console and inside the mounting plate of the side impact bars. Kurt did a great job taking that design, developing it further with engineering drawings and fabricating a set of brackets for his build. Very nicely done.
After thinking about this more, even with the inboard brackets, the side of the seats still butts up against the side impact bars and I am still not convinced the angle of mounting the lap belt is ideal for the upright angle I plan to mount the seats at. So decided to take a different approach at this point. The end result being, a better mounting angle for the lap belts as well as more seat clearance between the center Console and side impact bars. The additional clearance allows for a better seat angle to the wheel and pedals if necessary.
Here is a video of the process...
The general idea is to remove the side area of the stock seats and move the bracket mounting points lower and more inboard on the sides of the seats...
Once the side seat area is cut away it will need to be filled to maintain the contour of the seat. The best way to minimize the amount of sanding of fiberglass and insure a good result is to make a mold of the inner surface area of the seat.
First step is to fill in the area where the seat bracket goes with spackle. I made a pattern and filled the area with poster board to limit the amount of spackle needed. Secured the poster board in with the screws and nuts so it would not flex when the spackle is sanded...
Applied the spackle and sanded it down to form the contour of the inside of the seat. It took well over a week for the spackle to dry...
Now made a mold of the inside contour of the seat with fiberglass and resin. Painted the spackle with latex paint so the packing tape would stick to it. But it turns out the pack tape would not stick well enough in the concave areas. I wound up using blue painters tape as a base and layered packing tape on top. That worked out well...
Next was to remove the sides of the seats. After using the Dremel we now have holes on the sides of each seat. The outer edges were beveled to give the fiber glass more surface area to bond to...
I secured the mold with hot glue and taped up the surrounding area so the resin would not seep all over the inside of the seat. Put down a few layers of fiberglass cloth...
After popping the mold off the inside it came out well and will require a little sanding and clean up of a few air pockets and pinholes...
The outside of the seat, I’ll shape this once I finalize exactly how the seats will be mounted...
Sanded the so side with 100 grit. Will still require more finishing but not too bad considering I have next to no experience doing this type of work...
The seat placed in the chassis. It certainly fits in the area better than before...
Next up is to design, mock up, then fabricate new mounting points and seat brackets...
Back in post #68 I documented the challenge of fitting the stock RCR seats and brackets along with the side impact bars. Being 6’2” I need the seat all the way back. There is just not enough room for the stock seats and brackets to fit between the center console and side impact bars especially if you want the seat all the way back.
So I mocked up a design to move the base of each mounting bracket 1.5” inward and that helps move the seat up against the center console and inside the mounting plate of the side impact bars. Kurt did a great job taking that design, developing it further with engineering drawings and fabricating a set of brackets for his build. Very nicely done.
After thinking about this more, even with the inboard brackets, the side of the seats still butts up against the side impact bars and I am still not convinced the angle of mounting the lap belt is ideal for the upright angle I plan to mount the seats at. So decided to take a different approach at this point. The end result being, a better mounting angle for the lap belts as well as more seat clearance between the center Console and side impact bars. The additional clearance allows for a better seat angle to the wheel and pedals if necessary.
Here is a video of the process...
The general idea is to remove the side area of the stock seats and move the bracket mounting points lower and more inboard on the sides of the seats...
Once the side seat area is cut away it will need to be filled to maintain the contour of the seat. The best way to minimize the amount of sanding of fiberglass and insure a good result is to make a mold of the inner surface area of the seat.
First step is to fill in the area where the seat bracket goes with spackle. I made a pattern and filled the area with poster board to limit the amount of spackle needed. Secured the poster board in with the screws and nuts so it would not flex when the spackle is sanded...
Applied the spackle and sanded it down to form the contour of the inside of the seat. It took well over a week for the spackle to dry...
Now made a mold of the inside contour of the seat with fiberglass and resin. Painted the spackle with latex paint so the packing tape would stick to it. But it turns out the pack tape would not stick well enough in the concave areas. I wound up using blue painters tape as a base and layered packing tape on top. That worked out well...
Next was to remove the sides of the seats. After using the Dremel we now have holes on the sides of each seat. The outer edges were beveled to give the fiber glass more surface area to bond to...
I secured the mold with hot glue and taped up the surrounding area so the resin would not seep all over the inside of the seat. Put down a few layers of fiberglass cloth...
After popping the mold off the inside it came out well and will require a little sanding and clean up of a few air pockets and pinholes...
The outside of the seat, I’ll shape this once I finalize exactly how the seats will be mounted...
Sanded the so side with 100 grit. Will still require more finishing but not too bad considering I have next to no experience doing this type of work...
The seat placed in the chassis. It certainly fits in the area better than before...
Next up is to design, mock up, then fabricate new mounting points and seat brackets...
Last edited:
Great work, Joel, as always. Lots of hours to finalize. excellent final product. I had to redesign my break pedal mounting and connection to the electronic controller, will post pictures this weekend
Good job Joel, I am working with fiberglass now, getting the hang of it, never done it before. I may have to use my fiberglass seats. The nice seats I have may be too high despite all the hours spent modifying them .
Joel K
Supporter
Thanks Hector, I’m continuing the work on the seats for the mounts. It’s a lot of work the way I am approaching it. I have a habit of designing things that are hard to implement LOL.
I know the feeling quite well.
Joel K
Supporter
This part 2 of the seat modification. In this post I’ll cover creating new/lower mounting points for the RCR supplied seats. This enables getting the seat brackets inboard of the side impact bars and opening up the area to better run the lap belt across the hip joint.
Here is a video covering the fabrication process...
First step was to conceptualize how the new bracket would fit and attach to the modified seats. The first mock-up created was used to get the general dimensions and was made out of poster board. Then refined that design into plywood, it fits nicely inside the side impact bar and mount plate. Left a little room to rotate the seat a couple degrees to line up with the steering column...
Fabricated the aluminum seat mount brackets and used them to locate where the screws will attach to the seats. I measured the seat angle(About 47 degrees) from the original brackets before I removed the sides so I got it as close to that as possible with the new setup.
Also shaped the outside of the seats where the sides were filled in. Applied a few layers of short strand fiberglass filler and sanded nice and smooth first with 80 grit then with 100 grit. Here is a pic...
Sculpted some clay in place to mock up the areas that needed to be built up with fiberglass. I always like to visualize how something will look first and clay is great for this. The clay also does not stick to fiberglass resin so it makes a nice base for a mold.
It took a while to get the hang of sculpting the clay and making it smooth. To do this I used my hands to apply the clay, shape and smooth it as best I could. Then took a small plastic rake to level the lumps and followed by brushing on some mineral spirts and smooth it out with my fingers...
Now that the design was finalized, time to make this out of fiberglass and install a threaded insert strong enough for the job at hand.
Next step was to make a mold of the new seat bracket pickup points. Placed packing tape on the seat bottom. Since fiberglass resin does not stick to modeling clay it is ready to fiberglass as is. Applied 3 layers of fiberglass cloth to make a mold of the new pickup points...
Now that the molds are taken I was concerned that the plastic screws may not align perfectly into the brackets after the new pickup points were molded on. There was some play in threads due to the shallow thread depth of the fiberglass and the curvature of the seat bottom. So clamped some aluminum plates to the brackets with the screws in place to insure both the screws and brackets would all be plumb and align properly when finished...
Applied a small amount of fiberglass at the base of the screws so there is no play. This did the job...
Waxed the molds and coated them with a release agent and glued them in place with hot glue. I located the M8 steel inserts with nylon screws. Since the polyester resin does not adhere to the nylon screws I fiberglassed them in place and removed the screw after the fiberglass resin cured.
The steel inserts are from Rotaloc and they can be purchased from McMaster-Carr (Part number 98007A134). I added a few M5x8mm button head screws with locknuts through the base of the Rotaloc fasteners to provide some extra shape which will prevent them from spinning around when molded in. I used a mixture of Cabosil and chopped fiberglass around the inside edge of the mounting point mold. The Cabosil is a thickening agent and helps make sure there are no air pockets in the joint area and prevents resin from leaking out of the mold. Pic of mold filled in with the steel insert buried in the fiberglass held in place with an 8mm nylon screw...
The fiberglass is curd and the the mold and nylon screw are removed. Since the nylon screws are fractionally smaller than steel screws I used a tap to open the threads up in the fiberglass for the steel screws. I was totally shocked how well the pickup point came out. I was pretty close to throwing in the towel on this approach, but stuck with it and at this point I realized it was all going to work. Pic of the first pickup points with the mold removed. Amazing how smooth it came out and will require minimal reshaping and sanding...
Pic of the seat with the brackets attached, I think they look great...
Pic of the seats placed in the chassis. When I get to finishing the interior I’ll trim out the seat belt openings and come up with an upholstery design. It was an insane amount of work, but I wanted to make them fit well with the side impact bars in place and very satisfied with the result...
Next up is to revisit the cooling tube mounting brackets and fabricate the close out panels for the fuel tank area.
Here is a video covering the fabrication process...
First step was to conceptualize how the new bracket would fit and attach to the modified seats. The first mock-up created was used to get the general dimensions and was made out of poster board. Then refined that design into plywood, it fits nicely inside the side impact bar and mount plate. Left a little room to rotate the seat a couple degrees to line up with the steering column...
Fabricated the aluminum seat mount brackets and used them to locate where the screws will attach to the seats. I measured the seat angle(About 47 degrees) from the original brackets before I removed the sides so I got it as close to that as possible with the new setup.
Also shaped the outside of the seats where the sides were filled in. Applied a few layers of short strand fiberglass filler and sanded nice and smooth first with 80 grit then with 100 grit. Here is a pic...
Sculpted some clay in place to mock up the areas that needed to be built up with fiberglass. I always like to visualize how something will look first and clay is great for this. The clay also does not stick to fiberglass resin so it makes a nice base for a mold.
It took a while to get the hang of sculpting the clay and making it smooth. To do this I used my hands to apply the clay, shape and smooth it as best I could. Then took a small plastic rake to level the lumps and followed by brushing on some mineral spirts and smooth it out with my fingers...
Now that the design was finalized, time to make this out of fiberglass and install a threaded insert strong enough for the job at hand.
Next step was to make a mold of the new seat bracket pickup points. Placed packing tape on the seat bottom. Since fiberglass resin does not stick to modeling clay it is ready to fiberglass as is. Applied 3 layers of fiberglass cloth to make a mold of the new pickup points...
Now that the molds are taken I was concerned that the plastic screws may not align perfectly into the brackets after the new pickup points were molded on. There was some play in threads due to the shallow thread depth of the fiberglass and the curvature of the seat bottom. So clamped some aluminum plates to the brackets with the screws in place to insure both the screws and brackets would all be plumb and align properly when finished...
Applied a small amount of fiberglass at the base of the screws so there is no play. This did the job...
Waxed the molds and coated them with a release agent and glued them in place with hot glue. I located the M8 steel inserts with nylon screws. Since the polyester resin does not adhere to the nylon screws I fiberglassed them in place and removed the screw after the fiberglass resin cured.
The steel inserts are from Rotaloc and they can be purchased from McMaster-Carr (Part number 98007A134). I added a few M5x8mm button head screws with locknuts through the base of the Rotaloc fasteners to provide some extra shape which will prevent them from spinning around when molded in. I used a mixture of Cabosil and chopped fiberglass around the inside edge of the mounting point mold. The Cabosil is a thickening agent and helps make sure there are no air pockets in the joint area and prevents resin from leaking out of the mold. Pic of mold filled in with the steel insert buried in the fiberglass held in place with an 8mm nylon screw...
The fiberglass is curd and the the mold and nylon screw are removed. Since the nylon screws are fractionally smaller than steel screws I used a tap to open the threads up in the fiberglass for the steel screws. I was totally shocked how well the pickup point came out. I was pretty close to throwing in the towel on this approach, but stuck with it and at this point I realized it was all going to work. Pic of the first pickup points with the mold removed. Amazing how smooth it came out and will require minimal reshaping and sanding...
Pic of the seat with the brackets attached, I think they look great...
Pic of the seats placed in the chassis. When I get to finishing the interior I’ll trim out the seat belt openings and come up with an upholstery design. It was an insane amount of work, but I wanted to make them fit well with the side impact bars in place and very satisfied with the result...
Next up is to revisit the cooling tube mounting brackets and fabricate the close out panels for the fuel tank area.
Last edited:
Joel,
VERY NICE!!!! This gives the stock seats the streamlined look of the Tillett seats that I like so much. Now you have me re-thinking my mounting, damn you!!
VERY NICE!!!! This gives the stock seats the streamlined look of the Tillett seats that I like so much. Now you have me re-thinking my mounting, damn you!!
Joel K
Supporter
Joel,
VERY NICE!!!! This gives the stock seats the streamlined look of the Tillett seats that I like so much. Now you have me re-thinking my mounting, damn you!!
LOL, Thanks Kurt. Yeah, I really like the Tilletts too but I’d never fit in them so this is what I came up with. Many many hours of work and head scratching to come up with this approach. I still have the molds so if you ever want to do this, just let me know. The molds will save some time but it would still be a lot of work.
Now I have to come up with an upholstery design. Not sure if I’ll do Alcantera or Leather but that decision is a year away.
Joel K
Supporter
Hi Kyle, yes both sides have a bubble in the middle as well. My passenger side seat sits high enough to just clear the bubble, but the driver side needs another 1/8” or so.
I was thinking/planning on flattening the bottom of the driver seat so it sits firmly and as low as possible in the chassis And clears the bubble. In my case every .25” helps. I may also make some beveled shims to raise the rear of the seat slightly and also compensate for the curved floor. Could make them very easily out of some nylon stock or aluminum.
Great work Joel, hope your wife does not mind you placing those seats on the kitchen counter LOL . Very nice end product after all that work . The seats also have giving me major fitment issues. and not sure if my head will be bouncing off the headliner , we will see. I did not know about the floor bubble .
