Little Venting - SPF Construction

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

I did not change the title nor will I lock this thread at this time.

I do not agree with some of the points made here but do agree with some others. Could the cars be better? certainly. Could the be worse and/or cost more? Of course.

I will say that I have passed on to the factory any issues I have seen on any chassis we have had. And I have had replies to the effect of "Thanks for making us aware of this".
I do know several upgrades and improvements have been added since the production started.

Understand that Hi Tech is building two GT chassis' per month now and expects to stay at that rate for the future so any large investment in "Six Sigma" type programs are not likely. They do have a good statistical system for the in-house machining, etc. that they do.

 

[Steve C]

After digesting all the posts above and others relating to this issue I believe the bulk of problems/complaints could have been eliminated if the buyers had done or will do the following:

1)Research other brands for comparison and as reference when inspecting your SPF with the selling dealer.
2)Research the Dealers; a visit is a good idea to see what goes on there (I picked Olthoff as I had experience with him but, from personal experience I believe Rick Muck and Lance's operation would be good choices as well (I have purchased parts from Rick and understand he inspects and corrects flaws as does Dennis. I have had many dealings with Lance regarding warantee issues where he went above and beyond).
3)Ask the dealers what if anything they do when they receive the rollers (they should be finding and fixing paint flaws, and all observable issues (use things discussed on the forum here or based on conversations with other owners as background)
4)Get references from the chosen dealers customers and dig around in his shop talking to his mechanics
5)Inspect the roller when it comes into the dealer with the dealer to ID any issues and get agreement regarding correction (In my case Dennis noticed a slight paint flaw in the bonnett and had it resprayed before I came to inspect. He also went through the car top to bottom modifying some things w/o charge; only a few examples are shortned the front sway bar links, early wiring upgrade , balance bar fix ect)
6)If doing your own install realize what you are in for (I could have done it but, as I don't presently don't have time to do other than mods/upgrades I chose to contract with someone with a proven record and close enough to inspect and I did inspec upon taking delivery).
7) Know what you want done, put it in wriiting and get agreement. In my case I spec'd a lot to do with the engine install and a number of the other parts to be used with Dennis' concurrence. As an example I sourced the external slave assembly for the ZF, type of battery ect. Worked with Dennis regarding a left hand driive rod shift that he developed for me ect
8) Be as careful with selection of engine type, design (specs) and builder

If the purchase is approached as I have defined above I think there would have been or will be a lot less frustration.

As I have said before I am VERY happy with my choices, the car and the dealings I have had with Dennis Olthoff, Lance and Rick Muck as well as the correct decision I made going with Keith Craft for the Shelby FE

Steve P2125

 

[Mike]

Who changed the title of the thread Rick? As the originator of the thread I am asking that you close it or explain what useful purpose you think it servers by remaining open? I've done my best to welcome any and all feedback be it negative or positive and I think everyone has made their thoughts known. Beating a dead horse serves no purpose but to create hard feelings and that's about all that's left.

 

[Mike]

Understand that Hi Tech is building two GT chassis' per month now and expects to stay at that rate for the future so any large investment in "Six Sigma" type programs are not likely.

You guys act like Six Sigma is some mysterious process best left to giant corporations with millions of dollars to invest. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm doing my best to remain respectful in my comments but you don't know what you're talking about. Master certifications can be had for anywhere from a few hundred dollars via online training to a few thousand if received from a major university. Hitech would be well served to add this expertise to their operation.

Six Sigma Certification Cost Comparison

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

You guys act like Six Sigma is some mysterious process best left to giant corporations with millions of dollars to invest. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm doing my best to remain respectful in my comments but you don't know what you're talking about. Master certifications can be had for anywhere from a few hundred dollars via online training to a few thousand if received from a major university. Hitech would be well served to add this expertise to their operation.

Six Sigma Certification Cost Comparison

You are correct in that I am NOT familiar with Six Sigma! I know what a friend went through years ago for ISO certification and asumed it was similar. I have no experience or knowledge of the process so I stand corrected.

So long as this thread remains civil I am reluctant to close it. I understand your concerns and that your comments have been taken somewhat out of context, however I don't see a need to lock it down (yet!).

 

[Mike]

Thanks Rick. It's easy to misinterpret peoples words and tone on the net and I'm just as prone to doing it as the next guy. I respect everyone's opinions and hope this thread doesn't turn into just back and forth knife throwing. I love my car. I'd buy one again. I'd recommend one to others as I have already done. I'd still suggest the HiTech and SPF work together to continue to improve the manufacturing process in this day and age when the methodologies are out there and readily available. I'm not suggesting they are back yard mechanics but based on some of the issues I've seen, they have some gaps to fill to achieve a truly high quality product. They are in no way insurmountable either I would suggest.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

if you are going to create wild unbelievable scenarios to make points....

Glenn -- the catastrophic parking brake failure is not imaginary, it has happened to several owners, for example: http://www.gt40s.com/forum/superfor...emergency-hand-brake-calipers.html#post269879.

Dave -- I have recommended purchasing the SPF GT40 to everyone who has ever asked (and there have been many) but always with the condition that the known issues be accounted for and corrected.

Robert -- whether it's Hi-Tech or SPF who is at fault is an utterly irrelevant and uninteresting distraction.

Robert and Dave: More importantly, it is not I who is threatening your resale value or SPFs survival, it is SPF's behavior (or lack of same) that does so. Products with high resale and corporate longevity are backed up by honesty, openness and care-taking of existing owners. Any time they want to, SPF can acknowledge the issues and offer direct support for their correction, and they will then have a well-earned reputation for quality products and service. That they choose not to is their responsibility, not mine.

In the meantime I believe I am doing all of you a service by doing the analytical and design work on my own, documenting it, and pointing out its significance. I have spent hours documenting my fixes to various technical issues on this forum, and if you did your research you would know that. If you are not aware of that work, do a little searching.

I don't have access to a list of existing owners. If I did I would communicate directly with all of them in private. Public forums are clearly not the ideal medium for this as the infamous "broken shock mount" thread amply demonstrated.

As Rick Muck can attest, I have made lengthy and detailed private recommendations on how the factory could easily set up a private conduit between the owners and factory technical support out of the public eye. These recommendations have neither been even partially implemented nor acknowledged by SPF. In my view I invested substantial effort and gave them their chance and they chose not to act.

In light of that, I have chosen to align myself with what I believe are other owners best interests by sharing my information as widely as I can and accepting the risk that by not keeping it a secret I am not promoting SPF's longevity and my car's resale value. I still think it's a good trade.

However, if you would prefer I not do so, I will happily cease posting technical discoveries, analyses, recommendations and fixes on this forum. It would certainly free up more time to work on P2160 itself as well as pursuing my various other more appreciated pursuits. If you like, I can even request the moderators delete all my posts. Just let me know...

 

[Seymour Snerd]

I do know several upgrades and improvements have been added since the production started.

Why is the factory unwilling to share those improvements so that we existing owners could at least attempt to retrofit them at our own expense? That's really all I'm asking for.

And further to the point that the Cobra owners seem to get better treatment, I just received the following e-mail. Why do GT40 owners not receive this support?

"We have come across these few minor issues with the newer Superformance Cobras we feel you as a Superformance owner, should to be aware of. While they are not serious in nature, having the best Superformance car under your feet as possible, is our goal.

We have discovered at least one occasion (car made in the past few months) where the bows of a new soft top had both left and right (male and female) bows but the right side had the bows and tabs welded as if it were the left. This happened at the factory. Please check your soft tops BEFORE you really need them, preferably at home in your garage. If you have one of these anomalies, contact Superformance USA for a replacement at no cost. I have in formed the factory and they are watching this more closely. This is not a safety issue, but a convenience issue.

2. Some later Cobras (last 100 or so) seem to have a rough ride. When jacked up the suspension drooped to the point the springs had more between 1" of space between it and the shock and it dangled freely. The springs supplied with the shocks were about 1" too short on the front. This happened after the car came into the country where the dealer fits the shocks to the car with numerous different shock and spring packages they might choose. Please check to see if you have the wrong height springs on your car. Dealers are being contacted to prevent this from reoccurring. This is not a safety issue, but a performance issue.

3. Some front caliper brackets on the New Cobras are a result of the caliper bracket bolt backing out and creating a clunking noise. PLEASE check the caliper bolts AND caliper brackets, too! I have informed the factory of this and they are taking immediate action to ensure bolts are locktited and marked. Dealers are informed to inspect this area before delivery and owners are encouraged to check them if you have a newer (last 100 cars) model. This could be considered a safety issue if allowed to "clunk" and not be addressed.

5. On some cars but on all models, the split collars that compress onto the steering shaft splines from the steering wheel are not compressed far enough, making the entire steering feel as if it has "play" in it. It is very difficult to see unless you look for it. As you tighten the allen bolt the extreme strength of the collar makes you believe you have gone as far as you could, but in reality you still have not compressed the collar onto the splines. As you turn more with a longer wrench, it "feels" like you are stripping the bolt, but in reality NOW you are first compressing the collar. Most everyone stops at this point. I recently turned a bolt over 2 turns past the "felt like it was stripping" point and even mentioned "oh-oh, I think it is stripped". As I kept turning all of a sudden it REALLY came to an abrupt stop. NOW, and only now was it truly tight. There is another collar at the opposite end at the steering rack as well. I have informed the factory and they will go the extra mile not let any through, the dealers have been informed and owners are encouraged to please check and tighten these bolts for better steering performance. This is not a safety issue, but a performance issue.

In summary, check all these points of concern out on your car. Even though they affect only new cars, all cars can benefit from a periodical once over. In addition, we will personally contact each of the owners of these affected cars individually to ensure they have the opportunity to take advantage of this information and improvements.

As always we are here to help the owners and help Superformance and the Factory at the time time to make a better product and experience for everyone."
​

 

[Doug S.]

I don't have a dog in this race....yet. If it gets to the point where I can consider an SPF MkI, I would expect it to be in good shape when delivered without all the defects mentioned by MHNCO. If the defects develop over time due to my use of the vehicle, they are just maintenance items that need care. If they are there at the time the dealer attempts to make delivery, I would kindly decline and mention the condition in which I expect to have the car delivered...and that I expected the dealer to do the delivery prep to get it into that condition at their expense. For a vehicle of this value, that is not unreasonable from a customer's standpoint.

Having said that, though...I would probably NOT at this time consider SPF, given the content of this thread. There are just too many other good options out there, for those of us who do not care about "continuation" series issues.

Sad...the SPF is a very nicely optioned....:sad:

Doug

 

[Seymour Snerd]

...Having said that, though...I would probably NOT at this time consider SPF, given the content of this thread. There are just too many other good options out there, for those of us who do not care about "continuation" series issues.

The SPF GT40 is by far the superior product. My recommendation is that you buy one and fix, or have fixed, the issues. It's not that hard. You just have to know about them. All the ones I know of are documented somewhere in the SPF forum.

 

[Mike]

Doug, if you're willing to invest some late hours in the garage, all the gaps are straight forward to address. With all the knowledge and experience on this board as well as people like Dennis, I would still recommend the SPF car as one of the finest in several areas including appearance and more importantly resale value. I respectfully reject Roberts assertion that information like this on the internet negatively impact the value of the cars. In fact I think it may improve the value at least for those who don't hide the flaws and can demonstrate the corrections thereof. You can go over my car with a fine tooth comb. You could eat off any surface and there are very few areas left I feel are in need of improvement. I spent some time doing it but in the end, it has been well worth it. If some of these gaps can be addressed during the initial construction, it's a home run and not even close.

 

[Glenn B.]

Alan,

When you post comments such as, "These recommendations have neither been even partially implemented nor acknowledged by SPF. In my view I invested substantial effort and gave them their chance and they chose not to act. " I was reluctant to take it at face value, so I called Lance Stander to ask him about these issues and how he would prefer to handle them, or any others that I may discover on my car.

A very interesting fact surfaced during our conversation...He stated that he has never received a call from you on any of the issues you list, or on any topic, for that matter. According to him, you and he have never spoken. You state that your recommendations were never implemented or acknowledged....but, you never had the conversation with the source??? Lance took my call immediately and was very open to the dialog. I posted his contact information earlier in this thread and he requested that I tell any owner who wishes to discuss the cars with him personally are welcome to use it.

Before you continue to impugn his company and the quality of the products we all own, I think you should step away from the keyboard and have the personal conversation with the owner of the company you intimated to have already occurred. You owe him the courtesy of allowing him to directly respond to you before continuing. If you prefer, PM me your contact information, and I will forward it to him so that he may contact you directly.

 

[Mike]

Now there is an offer! I may take you up on that myself. Thanks

 

[Robert S.]

That was not the name of the original thread title nor did I change it to or request it changed to. Now I'm just getting annoyed...

Who changed the title of the thread Rick?

Michael, I do not believe that you think I am empowered to, or did change the name of the thread, but just in case others may wonder, consider these facts: I do not have a password for the GT40 forum site, and I am neither a bonafide agent or employee of GT40 Forum, nor of Hi-Tech, nor SPF, nor do I act in any capacity for any of the owners of those companies.

Also, this thought came to mind: In the future, anyone who wishes to accomplish the goal of seeking other's opinions on a product or service could create not only a thread, but sub categories within the first post. So a thread could read: Likes and dislikes of ????, or pros and cons of ????? Within the first post, one could pose questions like these: What improvements have been made over the years? What improvements would users like to have considered in the future, and why?

I believe this is a less controversial approach that does not pose a negative statement in the thread, and a negative first post, but instead, requests the sharing of a balance of ideas and opinions. It will not divide the participants into two corners resulting in offensive and defensive camps. Just my 2 cents.

Also, I would like to personally thank Lance and all the folk at SPF for funding our very own forum section here on the GT40 Forum, for our enlightenment, the sharing of thoughts and ideas, and for our entertainment. I have no guess what this costs SPF, but I suspect it is considerably more than the $300 per year the Gold members pay. Lance, while it may strike you at times that no good deed goes unpunished, we do appreciate your efforts.

Robert

 

[Ron Earp]

Fellows,

Before you don tin foil hats or head out on a witch hunt, I changed the name of this thread. I frequently change the names of threads so they reflect the content of the thread. I do it all over the forum and have done so for years, probably once or twice a week to correct misspelled words, put in omitted words, and so on. The site needs to be search engine friendly, i.e. thread titles accurate, to remain relevant.

Carry on.

Ron

 

[Jim Craik]

Lance, while it may strike you at times that no good deed goes unpunished, we do appreciate your efforts. Posted by Robert (QUOTE]

Robert, I agree 100%, Lance has always taken my phone calls, additionally He and SPF have been more than fair in their dealings with me. I am looking forward to seeing him in Monterey!

 

[Robert S.]

Fellows,

Before you don tin foil hats or head out on a witch hunt, I changed the name of this thread. I frequently change the names of threads so they reflect the content of the thread. I do it all over the forum and have done so for years, probably once or twice a week to correct misspelled words, put in omitted words, and so on. The site needs to be search engine friendly, i.e. thread titles accurate, to remain relevant.

Carry on.

Ron

Who exactly are you, and what did you do with the real Ron we knew and loved . . . . :laugh:

 

[Mike]

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. - YouTube

 

[Kevin L]

Tin foil hat on... Aliens did it

Doug, you are making a mistake not considering SPF, folks (including me) are discussing faults small enough that can be easily fixed and are details. Go look at other threads where some are struggling to rewrite entire cars or welding in new suspensions. I totally respect that they have the ability to do what I cannot but... That is a lot more work than relocating an alignment pin.

I stand by my statemtent, the car is so good that it is the detail and annoying issues that come to light. I love my car, resale doesn't matter as I am never selling it

 

[Seymour Snerd]

. You state that your recommendations were never implemented or acknowledged....but, you never had the conversation with the source??? ...
According to him, you and he have never spoken.

Lance and I have met face to face a couple times at his shop and at varioius shows. I'm sorry I was not memoranble to him.

I sent the recommendations to Rick Muck who I understood was going to "pass them on". That is why I referred to Rick in the first place. I don't know that he did. If not it would certainly explain the silence and I probably should have checked with him before bringing this up. I now wish I hadn't because I like and respect Rick and don't want to cause him any more trouble than he already has.

IAE Glenn this is all beside the point and if it's distracting you from the safety and quality issues, let's pretend I never said it. You seem to be taking every opportunity you can to change the subject and I'm getting tired of following your meanderings, however deliberate they may be. I could, after all, be writing another SPF tech article or working on my car.

Why don't you take a little time at your keyboard to research the issues, so you can quit taking the idiotic position that I'm making all this stuff up. Also I don't owe you or Lance or anyone else private personal lessons on how to run a company with good customer care. I think I've done quite enough for the SPF GT40 community as it is. I'm sorry you don't appreciate it, but that's not my loss.