Mark II P1046 vs. Gulf P1015.... which is more representative?

[Alfonso]

P1046 vs P1015

Which one of them do you think that is more representative of Le Mans spirit? Of course both are Le Mans winners cars but I realized that in almost all forums, books, magazines, etc....... when it refers GT40's the choosen photo corresponds to Gulf colour MKI, even when the most distinguished as race winner was the MKII........ Your oppinion?

Cheers

Alfonso

 

[Johan]

P1015 was not a LeMans winner.
MK II was not more distinguished.
LeMans spirit ? Sounds gay.

 

[Ian Anderson]

I believe 1076 (Gulf coloured) is the most famous as it is the only car (chassis) to have won Le Mans twice.

That takes some beating

Ian

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

P1075 actually was the "two-timer"

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Le Mans winners were 1046/J5/1075 so far as I know.

 

[Ian Anderson]

Oh well that's what comes from posting at work without the facts to hand.

But can anyone confirm if any other car / chassis has also managed 2 wins at Le Mans? (Perhaps some of the Porkers?)

Ian

 

[Ian K]

Oh well that's what comes from posting at work without the facts to hand.

But can anyone confirm if any other car / chassis has also managed 2 wins at Le Mans? (Perhaps some of the Porkers?)

Ian

The Audi R8s and Porsche 959s and 962s maybe, and Bentley in the 30's and 40's had
multiple wins for the same car, same drivers, and same team. So, tracking down
chassis numbers to verify seems to be the difficulty.

Ian

 

[emiel]

Well,to me the most representative would be the mark II of Ken Miles and Denny Hulme.I know officially it didn't win but I think it should have.Emiel

 

[Alfonso]

My excuses for having done the question, it seems that it is necessary to be cautious with so much expert ...... Johan, with regard to the "gay" reference, to say that the phrase is not mine, here in Europe a qualified book has been titled "The Spirit of Le Mans " and in it is written that Ferrari represented that spirit ¿?...I will try not to use any more the phrase to preserve my virility . If the book is not wrong (I do not know it because lamentably I am a simple fan and not an expert)1046 is the most distinguished car with independence of if it has been in Le mans or other races (I repeat that I was not there in 60's and do not know it)..... if is not true the guilty is the "Gay" that wrote the book. And please Ian, excuse me, the next time I will study a long before posting in order to try not to hurt your sensibility. As owner of a Cobra I use to post in Clubcobra's pages and I had never felt badly for doing a question. Plese excuse my bad english too.

Regards

Alfonso

 

[Steve C]

I agree!

Steve...SPF P2125 in Miles/Hulme 1015 dress

 

[Ron Earp]

Hi Alfonso,

Please don't take any of the comments of these fellows personally. Generally these guys are a quite tolerant group and we do appreciate non-native English writers on the forum. I travel to Europe frequently and sure do appreciate the tolerance and help of those I visit with respect to languages. I know it isn't easy to post on a mainly English forum and please don't let comments bother you. I think you'll find the site friendly and welcoming to visitors from all of the world.

Best,
Ron

 

[John Lowe]

Joining in the sprit of the thread confused the Mk1 will always be the representative 40, like most classic designs the purity of the shape was lost to some extent in subsequent marks. Still love them all though.

Hanging in there is real tough but only a few weeks now till it arrives (RCR Mk 1), get your skates on Fran.............

John

 

[Ian Anderson]

Hi Alfonso

Firstly do not apologise on your English on my account it is 100% better than my Spanish!

I did not mean that anyone should study first before posting - just I remembered 1075 and 1076 were stablemates and I chose the wrong one as winner - a quick check in a book at home would have confirmed my mistake but as I say - at work and had no books to hand


And now to go further against the flow of things here I prefer the Mk1 shape to Mk2!

Ian

 

[Alfonso]

Thanks to all for your commentaries.... really my question arose to avoid to commit past mistakes, when I configured my Cobra specs and trim I was many days with headache thinking in options, colours, engine, trans, etc..... If now I had to choose again, probably I would change everything. At first I had no doubts about my choice on a MKII, but every day it comes to my mind the image of the Gulf Pattern on a MKI.... at first I was convinced that side oiler was the better choice not only interms of originality (I prefer a block with cast number matching 60's to facilitate to title car in Spain), but now I'm considering the stretability of a Roush or something like it..... Definitively.....I would like to take the correct decision because I cant expend often 140K$ and I have doubts about model, colour, engine and dealer......just peanuts!

Thank you for your patience

Alfonso

 

[Allan Feldman]

Le Mans Spirit to the general public audience maybe the P1075 double win was the greater; to Ford the 1968/69 wins were a bonus as they had acheived winning the Le Mans two years earlier with the MKII forming a staged deadheat. Which more recent Le Mans winners have copied! In fact it started in 1967 with the Ferrari 330P4/412Ps winning Daytona and forming a staged 'deadheat'. Porsche also did it when they won Daytona. That's the 1966 Ford's win legacy!
There's no contest I would go with what won first for Ford that was the 1966 Ford GT MKIIA P1046. Remember it was an official Ford backed entry! Ford pulled out from racing after achieving their aim of an all American win with American drivers. The Ford GT MKIV driven by Dan Gurney and A.J.Foyt in 1967! Therefore the 1963 Ford GT story was finally completed as the success story for Ford in 1966 and 1967. Ford did not have to race again and did not as they had succeeded in winning Le Mans twice in a row! So there was no need to carry on as well as the regulations changing for the 1968 season. The MKIV was obsolete overnight so Ford pulled out. Think if the rules had allowed the MKIV to compete in 1968 and Ford had yet to win Le Mans there would have been a different outcome not involving P1075!!! Therefore the merits of the John Wyer JWAE GT40 efforts were nothing to do with Ford's master plan as it had been accomplished!!!
The Gulf Ford GT40 P1075 that one in 1968/69 (might have been helped by Ford unoffically) but was not a Ford works car. In fact what John Wyer and JWAE did by winning twice was more remarkable in that the GT40 in 1968 was considered past its prime as a racing car. I think the influence of the closest finish and the young Jackie Ickx was the best race at Le Man's for the Forty in 1969. So for 1968/69 the GT40 wins at Le Mans were a bonus for Ford. And of course the Wiltshire Oil colour scheme seemed of have wowed the audience.
As for calling the 1964-1970 a MK1. There was no such animal just call it a Ford GT 1963-65 (1st twelve preproduction chassis) before May 1965 an a Ford GT40 (cars with definative nose and production chassis). There again you can call it a MK1 in hindsight even if there was no such designation at the time!!!!
I am sure a Porsche won Le Mans twice in succession running in the 1980's. And there was differnantly another car that won twice in succession. And I would not be surprised if the Audi/ Bentley cars had a chassis that won twice in succession since they were all Audis under the skin?? I know a Porsche chassis was used under one of the Jaguars in the 1980/90's. Things can get complicated.
Regards Allan

 

[Ian Anderson]

Alfonso
do yourself a favour. But a ticket for Le Mans Classic in July this year and come and see the cars!

I would also suggest in Spain a black GT40 would be unbearably hot inside without a serious air conditioning system (Originals did not run aircon) and a paler car would assist with lowering cabin temperature

Ian

 

[Tod]

I understand that the Gulf colors are the most recognizable, but for the sake of doing something different, why not use 1046???

 

[Howard Jones]

Ya! Ya! Use the Ken Miles car!!!! We don't want to follow we want to lead! This forum is "THE" GT40 forum after all. Lets make a statement!

Oh and Al, don't sweat it my friend. I'm from California and we don't speak engilsh either. Keep postin! The international flavor of this forum is what make's it cool! Love ya Baby!!!!!

 

[Ron Earp]

Oh and Al, don't sweat it my friend. I'm from California and we don't speak engilsh either.

Not even in the same country!

 

[Chris Duncan]

P1046 vs P1015

Which one of them do you think that is more representative of Le Mans spirit? Of course both are Le Mans winners cars but I realized that in almost all forums, books, magazines, etc....... when it refers GT40's the choosen photo corresponds to Gulf colour MKI, even when the most distinguished as race winner was the MKII........ Your oppinion?

Cheers

Alfonso

Good question, from a technical or opinion viewpoint there are arguments that could go either way MK-1 MK-2, or MK-4. From a generic view it would have to be the MK-1.

You could ask this question another way and say which best represents the GT40 spirit. Most of us would say MK1. It's that rare combination of near perfection. Personally (imho) I think one reason is because of it's size, both overall and the engine, not as big as it's brothers.