New TRT Transaxle

[Richard Timte]

Dutton,

I would say the maintenance of the gears, shafts, dogs and dog rings in the TRT to be like the Jerico 5sp road race transmission. Well not like but exactly like the Jerico 5sp because thats exactly what is in the TRT. Dogs are a wear item but the timing on how long they last is directly related to how the transaxle is used. People have run the Jerico thousands of miles with no maintenance while other only make it last a race. The ring and pinion is manufactured by Winters Performance and is their heavy duty 10" quick change version. I have attached a spread sheet that can be used to help decide what gears to run. The main sheet has input fields for the following:

1. Quick Change Gear Set
2. Master Drive Gear Set
3. 1st Gear Set
4. 2nd Gear Set
5. 3rd Gear Set
6. 4th Gear Set
7. Tire Diameter
8. Max RPM in each gear

You can use the tabs at the bottom of the sheet to see what gear set you selected as well as what other gears are available.

Well I tried to attach the sheet (its 175 K and the limit is 97 K). If you would like a copy please email me and I would be glad to forward a copy to you.

I did get two renderings of the internals attached though. As you can see the main input and output shaft is in the middle of the box and the cluster shaft is to on side and the ring gear and shift shift drum to the other. The main output shaft is coupled to the pinion shaft via a quick change gear setup. As you can see most of the weight is at or below the center line of the crank. Also the gears are slid forward allowing for a shorter package and moving more of the weight between the center line of the wheels.

 

[Richard Timte]

All,

Lynn suggested zipping the spread sheet and it is now within the limits. So I have uploaded it.

 

[J Kreviazuk]

any news?

 

[Richard Timte]

Well,

Yes it is time for a update. Things are progressing well but not as fast as I would like. Here is what parts are complete (shift forks, shift drum assembly, selector rack assembly, output shaft assembly, custom differential). Case designs should go to the casting facility Thursday or Friday. At that time I will post renderings of them. Here are two shots of some of the completed parts that are sitting on my kitchen counter (Don't tell the girl friend) and a side view of the case (note no holes are present in the drawing). One other thing, we decided to include a mechanical pump as part of the package(picture attached) , since it is required to oil the differential (and yes it is supplying oil to the output side of the ring and pinion so no hydraulic pitting).

 

[domtoni]

Richard,

Do you have any dimesional information so I can put it onto my spreadsheet comparison?

Thanks
Dom

 

[wanni]

If I do not generate another diplomatic incident and of course if you do not mind, may I ask you 3 or 4 questions in order to understand better your gearbox, which has some smart solutions but also some question marks.
What's the shafts center distance?
Which modules and pressure angles are you using?
What is the convertion value between 1 lb/ft and 1 Nm?
Is the diff an LSD or a TSD?
Is your lay out like a dry sump with external tank?
If you do not wish to answer, never mind. Feel confortable as you are.
Cheers Wanni

 

Hi Richard

I wish you well and respect your efforts to see this through, I share your enthusiasm and determination.

Regards

Chris.

 

[Ian K]

What is the convertion value between 1 lb/ft and 1 Nm?
i

Wanni -

1 lb/ft = 1.357 Nm

Ian

 

[wanni]

I will keep my thoughts for my self.
It is just for my knowledge and that's it.
For sure those are not Porsche internals. This is a typical american design with an entry shaft and it is fascinating me. And I like to encrease my knowledge by asking.
If nobody replies I do not care anymore.
And you Chris, when you need something from me, just ask Kevin.
We already made enough show.
Thank s for not provocating me anymore.
Cheers
Wanni

 

[Richard Timte]

If I do not generate another diplomatic incident and of course if you do not mind, may I ask you 3 or 4 questions in order to understand better your gearbox, which has some smart solutions but also some question marks.
What's the shafts center distance?
Which modules and pressure angles are you using?
What is the convertion value between 1 lb/ft and 1 Nm?
Is the diff an LSD or a TSD?
Is your lay out like a dry sump with external tank?
If you do not wish to answer, never mind. Feel confortable as you are.
Cheers Wanni

What's the shafts center distance?
The shaft centers are 3.375" or 85.725 mm and the gears are over 1.25 inches wide.

Which modules and pressure angles are you using?
I'm not sure although I could find out if you would like to know. The input shaft and gears, output shaft and gears and cluster shaft and gears are out of a Jerico 5sp box (road race or drag as these parts are the same in both). The dogs and rings are stock Jerico. The output shaft is the only part the is not a stock Jerico (it is modified). The 10" Ring and Pinion is out of a winters performance rear. The shift Mechanics are custom stuff (standard style shift drum with a 8 pin selector drum and a selector shaft). The selector shaft goes across the bottom of the box and exits on each side. Provisions for a bell crank to move the selector shaft are provided on each side of the box.

What is the conversion value between 1 lb/ft and 1 Nm?
as iank2112 said 1 lb/ft = 1.357 Nm

Is the diff an LSD or a TSD?
its a TSD (torque sensing differential)

Is your lay out like a dry sump with external tank?
its a wet sump setup, but the diff needs oil pumped to it.

Here is a link to the Jerico site Jerico 5sp Road Race

and a picture of the internals of the road race version:

and a picture of the Drag race version with air shifters (the main difference between them is the dogs and dog rings as the drag race only needs to go through the gears once and the road race thousands per race.

The drag box is used in 3500 lbs cars with well over 1500 hp.

If you have any additional questions just ask.

 

[wanni]

Just the last Richard,
which diameter has the drum?? is it the same for synchronised version as well??
You are very kind for giving out those values pubblicly.
Grazie e Ciao.
Wanni

 

[DBLDREW]

What are you planing to use for your helical syncro gearbox? Does jerico make a helical box? Or are you planing on using the gears form a tremec or richmond box?

 

[Richard Timte]

Wanni,

Not sure what you are asking:

which diameter has the drum?? is it the same for synchronised version as well??

Could you please rephrase so I don't answer incorrectly.

DBLDREW,

Jerico, no.
planing on using the gears form a tremec or richmond box?
T56, TKO 600, Richmond Gear all would work. Some bad Mustangs, Vipers and Corvettes running around with gobs of power using the above.

 

[DBLDREW]

I’ve had nothing but good luck with Tremecs. So obviously if the t56 would work that sounds like the best option. One other thing to consider, there is a company who makes gearsets for the t56 that are rated at over 1000hp! That might be the best of both worlds, the strength of a dog box but the street friendliness of a syncro box and it has 6 gears rather then 5! G-Force Transmissions and Long Shifters

I’m also assuming your syncro box will have the same quick change gears that you are incorporating into your dog box?

 

[wanni]

Wanni,

Not sure what you are asking:

which diameter has the drum?? is it the same for synchronised version as well??

Could you please rephrase so I don't answer incorrectly.

DBLDREW,

Jerico, no.
planing on using the gears form a tremec or richmond box?
T56, TKO 600, Richmond Gear all would work. Some bad Mustangs, Vipers and Corvettes running around with gobs of power using the above.

Richard,
I mean the outside diameter of the barrel or drum, the one which moves the fork shafts. The one having all the cammes for moving the forks by rotating.
Ciao
Wanni

 

[Richard Timte]

Wanni,

Thanks for the clarification. The diameter of the drum is 1.625 " or 41.275 mm.

DBLDREW,

Thanks, that looks like the setup to use. They strightened out the helical gears while still keeping the noise down but adding strength. Yes, same layout for the quick change gears, but changed to helical.

 

[Mark Hamstra]

Richard,

Looking at the Winters Quick Change gear charts, I'm noting that they offer nine "limited horsepower application" gear sets (nos. 50-58) that you did not include in your spreadsheet. I'm assuming that these gears could easily be fit into your transaxle, but I'm wondering exactly what "limited horsepower application" means in terms of allowed torque and horsepower in a lightweight (~2500 lb.) car. Can you offer any guidance?

 

[Richard Timte]

Mark,

The smaller gear is just getting to small to transfer the power (thats why its states limited horsepower). But why would you need to have the effective rear ratio less than .238 or greater than .721 anyway? And no they don't fit, this is do to the fact that I sized the case for the larger gear up to 30A in the chart.

I hope this helps.

 

[Mark Hamstra]

That's too bad. The reason for wanting less than a .238 ratio was to get a better highway cruising RPM. The somewhat unusual engine I'm looking at would do fine in terms of RPM drops with the #57 gear set, but I guess that's not an option. I could also see wanting the taller gears to mate your transaxle to a diesel....

 

[Richard Timte]

TRT Project Delayed...

Well, I have some unforeseen problems that will cause me to slow down on the development of this product. I had a heart attach on June 10th, I am fine, just a big eye opener. It is a two hereditary conditions that are causing the problem, one is a vain feeding the heart it is not large enough, the other is high cholesterol (300 plus). This clogged pipe is the same condition my father died of, and two of my older brothers have (heart attacks). Well, I am on medication to lower my cholesterol and of course a diet that no one in their right mind could stick too. This was my first trip to hospital in my life and what a rude awaking that was, you need to rest, but they wake you up what seams like every 10 minutes. They stick you, poke you and draw more blood that a vampire would require. I have been staying with my two girls and there mother during this time and have not even looked at a computer.

Well, what does this mean, well I was putting every waking hour into this effort and at this time I can't have any undo stress as this might trigger another episode (per doctor). So I am going to not do anything (well maybe some) on the box for at least 3 months. I have instructed my daughter to send the 10.00 deposits back, your names will remain on the list and when the first box is complete I will contact everybody letting them know. I apologize to anybody if this cause any inconvenience or problems. This project will be completed as I have way to much money and time inverted already.