News on the new Shelby / 5.2 Flat Plane Ford V8

Not sure is this is where it belongs or not but given the engine in this thing will probably find its way into a GT40 replica or two I thought it was relevant. I called up Ford Motorsport to ask them about engine dimensions but they said that they don't have the final information yet. The bolt pattern should be the same since it will be using the Getrag MT82 6 speed.

Anyway, long story short, it's a 5.2L with a flat plane crank (180 degree -vs- 90) and makes over 500HP and 400lbs torque. Interested to see how it compares cost wise to the Aluminator XS since that too makes that kind of horsepower.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/new-shelby-gt350-6265.html?
 

Rick Muck- Mark IV

GT40s Sponsor
Supporter
Re: Note sure where else to put this...news on the new Shelby

Not sure is this is where it belongs or not but given the engine in this thing will probably find its way into a GT40 replica or two I thought it was relevant. I called up Ford Motorsport to ask them about engine dimensions but they said that they don't have the final information yet. The bolt pattern should be the same since it will be using the Getrag MT82 6 speed.

Anyway, long story short, it's a 5.2L with a flat plane crank (180 degree -vs- 90) and makes over 500HP and 400lbs torque. Interested to see how it compares cost wise to the Aluminator XS since that too makes that kind of horsepower.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/new-shelby-gt350-6265.html?

It is a Coyote and the basic exterior dimensions are the same. Gotta love that sound! And wait until the aftermarket gets hold of it!
 
Re: Note sure where else to put this...news on the new Shelby

given the engine in this thing will probably find its way into a GT40 replica or two I thought it was relevant.

You bet it will. I know a guy who lives near me that's glad he waited to buy an engine.

:D
 

Ron Earp

Admin
Re: Note sure where else to put this...news on the new Shelby

It's a proper motor for the new Ford GT coming as well.....
 
Re: Note sure where else to put this...news on the new Shelby

You bet it will. I know a guy who lives near me that's glad he waited to buy an engine.

:D

I've been waiting to pull the trigger on the Aluminator XS for quite a while now but will hold off to see what this thing lists as. My guess is that it may come in below the price of the XS and have the same power, if not a wee bit more.
 
Re: Note sure where else to put this...news on the new Shelby

new heads, new casting, new intake, new crank, new pistons, new rods
 

Ron Earp

Admin
Re: Note sure where else to put this...news on the new Shelby

Cross-posting this from another forum I participate in. That motor is going to have some interesting bits on it to quell vibration.

---
Q&A with Jamal Hameedi on the new Shelby GT350 Mustang


PRODUCTION:

Q: Do you expect it to be a limited production?
A: It will be about the same as a GT500.

Q: Will there be as many built as customers want?
A: …Up to a point.


WEIGHT:

Q: Is the GT350 lighter than the base GT?
A: Yea, we’re not really talking curb weight today, but there was a lot of light-weighting. Much of it went to offset all the mass that we added in terms of power, brakes, etc., but we also went beyond that too.

Q: So you’re optimistic that…
A: Yea, I’m not going to tell you. [laughs]


ENGINE:

Q: Is it dry sump?
A: It’s not dry sump.

Q: Is it direct injection?
A: No.

Q: Where do you get the extra 0.2 liter displacement
A: It’s all bore. It’s got plasma sprayed bore lining. Same lining coating as the 2013 GT500.

Q: Better breathing with flat planes?
A: It’s the rotational inertia that it reduces and also from an exhaust standpoint because you’re going side to side, you’re never disturbing the next cylinder’s firing.

Q: And mass reduction on the crank right?
A: Right.

Q: Where is the crank made?
A. It’s mostly in-house.

Q: You guys forge the crank and machine it yourselves?
A: Yea, there’s bits that are forged…

Q: This is a pretty big motor for a flat plane crank (big displacement). What have you done in terms of crankshaft damping?
A: There’s almost 30 things we did (outside the block) to compensate for it. It’s going to be a whole other story on how we did that.

Q: Challenges with emissions compliance with a flat plane crank?
A: It was harder than usual.

Q: Tell us about the variable loading exhaust valve?
A: It’s got an electric valve. So the valve, depending on what driver mode you’re in, the valve will either be open all the time (track mode) or it will open under certain conditions.

Q: Is it dependent on RPM or back pressure?
A: It’s electronically controlled so there’s algorithms in there that turn valve on in the right point in time.

Q: How much were you able to share with the 5.0L?
A: There are little common parts (i.e. things in the valve train), but it’s pretty much an all-new engine: new heads, new casting, new intake, new crank, new pistons, new rods, new halfshafts.

Q: There were rumors this engine was nicknamed Voodoo, is that the name it’s going by?
A: That was its nickname, yes.

Q: Any chance of seeing this engine in anything else?
A: Right now it’s just in this car. Which we’ve always done, just like the Trinity engine in the GT500. The GT500 was the only place you got the 5.8L.

Q: So it’s exclusive for now at least?
A: Yea.

Q: Is factory top speed software-limited?
A: No, it is drag-limited.

Q: How high does it go?
A: We’re not talking numbers today.


BENCHMARKS:

Q: What were your benchmarks for this car?
A: We had four cars that we bought. One was a 911 Carrera S — that was our main one. But we also bought a Ferrari California and that was mostly for NVH benchmarking. That’s the only flat plane crank front-engine car really out there. And then we bought a C7 corvette and also a Z28.

Q: Relative lap times compared to a Boss 302 around a race track?
A: Not really comparable. Way faster.. an order of magnitude faster.


SUSPENSION:

Q: What is the percentage of stiffness difference on the bushing between the GT350 and the standard GT?
A: Not that much. The bushings are different. The rate, the springs, the swaybars are different.

Q: Is the bushing changes primarily a handling thing or is it for NVH?
A: All for responsiveness and handling.


TRANSMISSION:

Q: Tell us a little about the transmission.
A: It’s a Tremec 3160 transmission that’s been modified fairly significantly to cope with the demands of the flat plane crank engine.

Q: What about the fly wheel and the clutch?
A: It’s got a low inertial dual mass flywheel and two 15-mm dual disc clutch.


WHEELS/BRAKES:

Q: Why black wheels?
A: Actually there’s a reason for that. The brake pads we use, they create so much dust and customers just hate it. You drive the car once with clean wheels and they are dirty after a short drive. So that’s why we got dark wheels.

Q: Why no carbon ceramic brakes?
A: I think you’ll find out later that affordability was a big part of this car.

Q: So keeping price down was a big part of that?
A: Yes. That was a priority with this car.


MISC:

Q: Is it meant to be a Boss 302 replacement or a GT500 replacement? Where is it positioned in the lineup?
A: It is its own beast. Just because the whole flat plane crank is so different than anything we’ve done and anything that’s out there.

Q: In terms of the body panels, how much does it share with the GT and how much of it is new?
A: From the A-pillar forward it’s all new. The whole rear diffuser is new. Rear quarter panels are the same.

Q: Will this be a platform for the GT500?
A: The car has got really good bones so…

Q: How much fun was it working on this?
A: It was awesome. I don’t want to stop.
 
The GT500 engine was available to purchase standalone about 6 months after those cars hit dealer lots. I'm sure there will be a crate version of this available down the road....but the price may be closer to 20k than 10.

And absolutely agreed Ron....With a banshee-like 8200RPM FPC now available, there is no more reason to perpetuate this hybrid Ford GT successor crap. Just a good old fashioned high strung small block, with Ford once again beating Ferrari at their own game!
 
This article is probably more informative than all the PC generated drivel I have read lately on this subject.

Flatheads - Crankshafts


BTW, I did read in one article that while the cars were being tested at the Nurburgring that one car came to a sudden halt when a bolt fell out of the starter motor!, whether that is a warning of things to come vibration wise or just a one of, never got tightened correctly, deal only time will tell.
 
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So this would be a good GT40 engine for sure, and I loved the N'ring video sound, but before we go getting too excited, flat plane crank means no cross over exhaust.
Pros: Easier to fab up an exhaust (much easier!)
Cons: No lovely bundle of snakes to admire...

First it giveth, then it taketh away...
 
I've driven a lot of flat plane V8's....I think the vibration thing is overblown frankly. Of course, a transverse mounted flat plane V8 (such as 80's ferraris, for example) isn't going to transmit the vibration as much as a longitudinal V8 (such as newer ferraris, for example) but in either case the vibration can be modest, or even not noticeable at all, with some decent engine mounting.

In a race car with the engine being a stressed member it's going to vibrate like hell. Not so much in a road car with good engine mounts.

Damn, sounds good.
 

Ron Earp

Admin
BTW, I did read in one article that while the cars were being tested at the Nurburgring that one car came to a sudden halt when a bolt fell out of the starter motor!, whether that is a warning of things to come vibration wise or just a one of, never got tightened correctly, deal only time will tell.

Time will tell. The vibration problem will need a solution more than just motor mounts and from what little I've read Ford is doing a lot of work with balancers, internal and external, but I haven't seen any real details published nor do I know what's in the 5.2L mule.

Your example with the starter bolt reminds me of our LeMons race a couple months back. The team captain (not me) decided to put a new used motor in the Mustang so he purchased one from a guy, running and ready to go. The swap was done and off to the races we go. First laps out all is well but man, the motor has a nasty vibration at certain RPM bands all the way to the self-imposed 5k redline. At one pit stop the car refused to fire because the starter seemed to have broken. Further inspection revealed that the starter bolts had gone missing.

Turns out the captain procured a early truck motor and swapped all his late model hardware to the engine, not realizing the external balance was different. Surprisingly the motor made it through 14 hours of use and the car finished the race, but I'm sure the crank bearings have had it.
 
I do not see the interest for a GT40 replica to have the new 5.2L engine. The cost will be very high and the look will be wrong. The amount of parts available for the old SB Ford and at a very reasonable price. The complexity of the installation of the 5.2L would be difficult and expensive. Most important it will not look good. I love the engine for the GT350 or any possible future car from Ford but not on a GT40 replica.
 
I disagree. The Coyote has tremendous aftermarket support already, and is installed or being installed in quite a few replicas, including my own. Base Coyote crates can be had for as little as 6k, with a 2 year warranty, backed straight from Ford, and there are now several different choices for 8-stack injection systems that look absolutely wicked on the motors.

The 5.2 Voodoo has the same attachment points, so if priced reasonably, will join a market for this engine family that now includes many choices for adapters, intakes, exhausts, etc.
 
I do not see the interest for a GT40 replica to have the new 5.2L engine. The cost will be very high and the look will be wrong. The amount of parts available for the old SB Ford and at a very reasonable price. The complexity of the installation of the 5.2L would be difficult and expensive. Most important it will not look good. I love the engine for the GT350 or any possible future car from Ford but not on a GT40 replica.

I'm with Jim in this regard being an older Ford guy [for the life of me I don't know why, Ford have not done me any favours over the years!]. I have had several customers over the years who have fitted incorrect flex plates or dampers to their 302/351 windsors to create there own imbalance problems and they all moan their butts off about the cost to 'fix' the self induced problems. I suppose these new motors will become 'throw away' items in years to come like the Jap Import stuff we have here in NZ now as the complexity of the 4 valve per cyl, variable valve timing, multiple intake runners stuff means few customers can afford to actually fix engine problems as opposed to buying a complete replacement motor.
 
The thing is Jac, these new engines come with a two year warranty and as time progresses you will see more machine shops familiar with the new engines as compared to the old. The old 302 just cannot make as much power, do it as reliably, as efficiently or as cleanly as the modern 5.0 be it Coyote, Aluminator or Voodoo.
 

Keith

Moderator
Not at all sure how they would adapt to variable electronically actuated valves though...

(And we don't know how they balanced it. Could be shafts in the 'V'?)

That's a whole new ball game for the after market..

I guess someone will cast more traditionally functioning aftermarket 32V heads for this new form factor :idea:

They could be called Voodo Vapourware! :laugh:
 
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