No Apologies for THIS....

[Keith]

Some of us here got a bollocking from the usual suspects last time this was brought up and unusually, I remembered the subject for long enough to record some empirical 'evidence'.

AS I recall, the Home Office played down the impact of Romania/Bulgarian net immigration into the UK and made a guestimate that no more than "around 50,000 - 60,000 would apply for entry in the first year while the strict controls are in place.

Have a read of this. DOUBLE what they said and the controls will soon be coming off. Enough already!

BBC News - Romanians and Bulgarians working in UK up 26%

I am not blaming Romanians/Bulgarians, but they should not seek to flee their country to seek 'economic salvation' just because an unelected undemocratic body in Brussels have said they can or worse, that they SHOULD.

There has always been migration of economic labour right across the globe since forever. In search of trade or fleeing from oppression. This is correct, natural and in the end humane.

What we have in the EEC in my (admittedly fairly uneducated) opinion, is a major case of official ethnic cleansing - a homogenising and melding of European tribes for quite sinister reasons. Social Engineering at it's extreme apogee.

How better to ease the pain of corrupt and inefficient regimes by holding up the welcome mat of a fellow state that can freely offer all the succour and financial aid these poor hard done by migrants need, by virtue of the graft of it's (OUR) own citizens over hundreds of years.

Let me out this another way. If every 'able bodied, fit, intelligent, willing Romanian and Bulgarian left their homelands to find their fortunes in another country stayed at home and worked their bollocks off to achieve the standard of living we have, their world & the whole of Europe would be a much better place and they wouldn't have to go around the world with their begging bowls would they? How long into the 21st bloody century with all these untold billions in the hands of the People are we going to have to accept encouraged human labour trafficking?

Economic migration might get our airport toilets cleaner but the money leaves the country to help build the large houses back in the 'home country' that's so poor they have to burn the furniture to keep warm.

The economics of this just does not work. This is a Franco German nightmare. Napoleon and Hitler in perfect harmony.

Nobody GAVE the British People their Welfare State and standard of living - we not only worked our socks off for it, but we managed to have lost almost 2 million people in the past 95 years on the battlefields of EUROPE and the FAR EAST defending that way of living, and yet what we have here, is a new bunch of economic immigrants who fought on the side of Nazi Germany and quit as soon as they saw the winning hand fold.
It is right & proper to offer a helping hand to less fortunate people, but as well as sending them large amounts if cash we are bringing them into our houses and having them eat off our table too.

They are here, not of necessity but as a result of this monstrous bureaucracy's desire to see Britain humbled in a humiliating manner by this 'encouraged' continuous migration. Old European jealousies still rule, and inherited hatred of Britain's past achievements still drives many political 3 wheel carts today - literally. There is no way that half of the membership of the EEC meet the original financial criteria - another clasic oiece of fiscal fudging to solve one nation' sproblems at another's expense.

Bloody Socialists!

This is not racism, this is a plea to defend my tribe. All are welcome but I love this country and I will never leave it and run away to another. If it is fucked I will fix it but I will NEVER take another man's bread to put on MY table.

Pick the bones out of that all you miserable grey minded (anti) social engineers/community killers!

That is all.

(E&OE)

 

[roaldin]

Dammit...
Here was I organising myself and my family for our move to the UK... Now what?!
Oh hang on, I'm not European... Or am I? Bugger, I really don't know... I think I was when I was at school. Oh no, I was a British subject then... Hang on, that's still European right? But I was in Australia the whole time... I am so confused... If I am European am I good European or bad European...?
What if I'm Asian... is that ok Baron?

Also to consider - We fought alongside you, but I didn't.
Our gov't is apparently socialist ATM - right Pete? That makes me socialist?
We lie around on beaches all day drinking tinnies, but we are in our thongs (flip-flops for the foreigners). Does that qualify as working our socks off?

Can I still come?

BTW, this thread may be a Godwin's law record! What happens now?

BRB, just have to put another chair on the fire. At least it's not books right? So obviously I'm no nazi fascist, er, socialist....... Nope, still confused...
I must say though, these guys that fought alongside the nazis have really found the fountain of youth!

;p

Tim.

 

[Keith]

Haha no worries Tim - you won't notice a thing - it's all relatively peaceful but would advise perhaps the Southern half of the country for a bit of space and to the South West if you want more!

It's a principle for me. If you support the rights of Aboriginals (meaning indigenous population) from all parts of the world to have their birthright and traditional lands respected, then you must also respect mine. That is the law.

And that, is all.

PS Bring some decent beer with you or drink Czech lager (brewed in Czech Republic) anything brewed with British Water in the UK is like Antelope piss, which is why we invented beer in the first place.

Nothing changes mate, nothing.

So, coming back eh? Any time off for Good Behaviour or did you do the full Life? :laugh:

You get shipped BACK for free too?

 

[roaldin]

A lifer me I'm afraid, born here. I'm pretty sure I (and all Australians) could have had a British passport for much of my early life though.
I have many friends who have moved to the UK in the last few years and most of them are telling me, and you might find this hard to believe, that bureaucracy is less intrusive over there, and it's also less expensive to live there.
Both NZ and UK are on my shortlist. I will be in NZ shortly and UK next year if all goes to plan.
Assuming you are still in drinking condition I will expect a pub tour.
NZ is closer to family, but there is much I want to do and see in the UK - racetrack and history wise, a boat that can find its way to a few Scottish distilleries might be fun too.
I made my decision a while ago now but kids etc mean I have to prepare well and tread slowly.

Tim.

 

[Jeff Young]

HOLY SHIT! 120,000 Romanians coming to a country of 50 million! The world is going to fucking END!

 

[Keith]

Again Jeff, it is a principle here.

I am an Aborigine/Cherokee. My lands are being stolen. I demand compensation and land for a casino.

We are an Island.

It is small.

Very small.

And they do not spread out they live in one town. Town foreign - no go for us - can't speak Romanian and don't like their stewed ponies or their thieving gypsy kids in traditional costumes.

 

[Keith]

Ask them in Paris what the Romanians did for them....

I would not even dare to offer a comment of what might happen in middle class Raleigh because I have never been there but i am prepared to take your opinion on the matter, and this is mine.

It's an opinion.

And I am entitled to it.

If I have transgressed either National or God's Law I will stand up for what I have said and pay the price.

But my opinion, is about the only thing I have left now and I'm going to voice it because I have become recently aware of my own longevity or lack of it.

I am also voicing it because perhaps I was too chickenshit to mention it before. So do not preach to me Mr Incredibly Correct Lawyer Man with your pocket full of pens and your mind full of unworkable theory.

This is The Old World. It works in a completely different way than Your Brave New World (which you can keep) because it hasn't and isn't working for you, and for all your pomposity you don't even have an answer, do you? Look Inwards not Outwards you Raleigh Rascal, and take off those damned pink shades.

Hooray!

That is all.

 

[Jeff Young]

I don't man. We are a far more diverse country than the UK and have had our hiccups with immigration for sure, and continue to do so, but on the whole, it has strengthened the country not weakened it.

So I'd say it is working for us. What spooks me on the other hand are otherwise very rational folks in very rational countries - Finland, Sweden, UK, others -- getting virulently anti-immigrant. We've seen that behavior here, it's not pretty and in the long run it is damaging to the country.

 

[Keith]

A lifer me I'm afraid, born here. I'm pretty sure I (and all Australians) could have had a British passport for much of my early life though.
I have many friends who have moved to the UK in the last few years and most of them are telling me, and you might find this hard to believe, that bureaucracy is less intrusive over there, and it's also less expensive to live there.
Both NZ and UK are on my shortlist. I will be in NZ shortly and UK next year if all goes to plan.
Assuming you are still in drinking condition I will expect a pub tour.
NZ is closer to family, but there is much I want to do and see in the UK - racetrack and history wise, a boat that can find its way to a few Scottish distilleries might be fun too.
I made my decision a while ago now but kids etc mean I have to prepare well and tread slowly.

Tim.

I think you're right about that. I am dumbfounded with what I see in Oz and NZ on the few TV programmes we get here - it just isn't what I would expect. Peter puts it down to a political shift but I cannot comment except to say that Mr Mcluskey appears to be a wise man with a Ferrari, GT40, yacht, race horse, so on balance I would say. Yep He's on the money!. Also, this creeping interference here is quite recent and the EEC has had much to do with the change - however, I do not mind the EEC I think it could be a force for good if we had decent terms of reference. The term "Mission Creep" was invented for this one fact of European Life. I am actually Pro EEC and the cultural diversity it offers as long as these unelected creeps that control stuff do not (as thy are doing now) manipulate the situation for their own ends. The Southern EEC countries can be incredibly corrupt but Britain German, France and the Northern European Hemisphere remain pretty straight up places to be.

The only thing I think that ruins people experiences of living abroad is expectations. If you have realistic ones - you'll be fine. And they're ain't a place in the UK that an Australian would NOT be welcome and there's more here than you might think. Kiwis on the other hand....... er, er. :laugh:

PS If you like Motor racing - it's here mate. None of the European countries are set up like this - men in sheds, All banging and tinkering away. Not so much as it was, but it's still here. Bit like a large version of NZ! ooooer.... :shifty:

 

[Keith]

I don't man. We are a far more diverse country than the UK and have had our hiccups with immigration for sure, and continue to do so, but on the whole, it has strengthened the country not weakened it.

So I'd say it is working for us. What spooks me on the other hand are otherwise very rational folks in very rational countries - Finland, Sweden, UK, others -- getting virulently anti-immigrant. We've seen that behavior here, it's not pretty and in the long run it is damaging to the country.

Nationalism has been on the rise in Europe for , er, about 1,00 years or so! No it is rearing it's head. slowed a little but it's there. It's the small countries with an identity crisis and you can see why. Yugoslavia being a case in point.

East European Nationalism is (or can be) ugly. The events re there in recent memory. Britain is a peaceful country. Eastern European Nationalism practiced in quiet English towns is not a pretty sight.

There are 21 what I would call Eastern European Countries including Belorussia etc. And their nationalism is quite understandable wishing to regain identity largely vanished in the Great patriotic War.

Truth be told, they are also inherently and traditionally racist by nature. That's not a term of abuse and it's not a political statement - it's what they are.

With the current crises of Eastern & Western culture clashes, I for one, do not want to see the matter of Eastern European Sovereignty fought on the streets of Britain, because the British won't be the victims here it will be others I'm not allowed to mention unless it gets everyone excited.

Jeff as culturally diverse as you appear to be in the USA, pretty much you're all American. This is something we were always amazed about and thought very highly of. It wouldn't matter how many immigrants come to Britain. They will NEVER fly a British Flag and they will ALWAYS fly their own National Flag. That is the fundamental difference between us.

It is now virtually impossible to FLY A BRITISH FLAG IN SOME AREAS OF BRITAIN.

The number of British people i.e. those calling themselves BRITISH, WILL slowly decay. You might say, well what the fuck?

You might, but others (including me) never will.

 

[Jeff Young]

If that last bit is true -- not doubting you -- that would be a problem I agree. I do agree that while it may take some time for some, people who come here come to be Americans, not "Romanians living in the UK." That is very true. If the intent of these folkings coming to the UK is to not be British, well, honestly, that may be something I never understood and should have.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

When in Rome, do like a Roman. If you don't want to do like a Roman, don't go to Rome. Stay where you came from, and do like that, whatever it is.

Seriously, this made me think of the story of my people (Jews) who have emigrated all over the world. Where we've adapted to local customs and behavior, overall we've done fairly well. Where we've insisted on "our way of life" whatever that is, we have had more problems and conflicts with local folks.

I don't think anyone would strenuously argue against emigration or immigration as long as those who are moving to a new country are willing to take the trouble to figure out how you're supposed to act there and do exactly that. I think the real problems have been in areas where immigrants move in and begin demanding that the locals adapt to them instead. We seem to be seeing a lot of that these days; like the fact of being new to an area somehow makes your ideas worth more, or your customs more acceptable. This, to me, is completely unreasonable. You can't move to a new country and then set up your little branch of your native country in your new digs, with your old laws, etc. There is supposed to be such a thing as national sovereignty and all that.

BTW, Keith, off topic: enlighten me again on the difference between being ENGLISH and being British. I was trying to explain this the other day to a friend and finally gave up.

 

[Jeff Young]

Britain is the entire island: Scotland, England, Wales. England is that insigificant portion south of Glasgow and east of those folks who talk weird.

That's a joke.

 

[Mark]

Jeff, please don't forget N.I. is in there too.

Jim, A Scotsman calls himself a Scot. A Welshman calls himself Welsh. An Irish fella refers to himself as Irish.

We mere English chaps must NEVER be seen to call ourselves English though, as to do that is to be disrespectful to our brothers and illustrate our inherent racism!

I Sir and an Englishman who is PROUD to be BRITISH. I think that may be unusual?

 

[Jeff Young]

Whoa there Mark! Even this suthern crackah knows that NOrthern Ireland is not on the island of Britain.......but rather on that shining emerald jewel to the west.....land of women who are actually hot, beer that is actually good, and food that is actually.....well, never mind.

 

[Keith]

It's a great joke and a great question. Remember, we take the rise ourselves first and foremost and that, it has to be said, is our greatest asset. In some ways we are impossible to insult because we know in our hearts it's all true.

The English are basically to blame for everything wrong in the World. In the past, they had a particular capacity (money) to persuade other nations (especially the Scottish & Welsh) to don British Uniforms and go and die for Londoners. When they objected at various times, we used to Break The Glass, get out the Hammer and go and murder several thousand Scots just for a weekend picnice, the highlight being that of plucking out Mel Gibsons Lights & Liver for the barbie. (To be fair, even the Scots approved of that)

Before we were Britain, we were called "Perfidious Albion"

The French were steeped in honour and glory, the Germans in Military tradition and sabre scars, but the bastard underhand English used plots, subterfuge torture and gold to get there way in the world.

(Sounds just like Donald Trump doesn't it?)

So (this is just the short version)

If you get a Scotsman he proudly displays the Saltyre and proclaim to be Scottish. On his census form, he has a tick box of ethnic origin. If he is an athlete, he will run for Scotland and begrudgingly for Britain (a mechanism set up by the bastard English to steal Scottish Oil and Herrings) Call him English though and you will be searching for your teeth in a very wide are of real estate the size of Norway.

Same for the Welsh and same for the Irish (who are allowed to vote in ENGLISH elections (WTF?)

The English are a Mongrel race made up of the Flotsam and Jetsam of European adventure. Probably the biggest cultural influences being Northern German (Angles, Saxons etc) and the Vikings. You can draw a line across the country roughly from West to East halfway up and that is where Vikings were fought to a standstill by Alfred the GREEEEAT and the street and town names reflect that to this day. Whereas, dahn sahf wher I is, is mainly the domain of the Anglo Saxons which is what I is.

Now, it gets a little more confusing because the "Anglos Saxons" (or early English) were so bloody clever, that when the Romans left after hundreds of years of military occupation and apparent assimilation (resistance is futile) when the Roman built elegant cities, baths temples straight roads, flushing toilets and central heating, we just walked out of these palaces and went back to our mud huts and carried on shitting in wooden buckets.

I mean how mad is that?

Then, it just gets a tad more complex because during the dark ages, (dark because the English had all the coal and wouldn't share it) the Vikings came stayed, raped and pillaged and practiced a quaint local custom on the locals called 'Blood Eagle' which, for the day easily equaled 'Craik & Young baiting' and high speed 100 mph Bass boat fishing (Just don't hook one at that speed or your fucked. Ask me how I know) for hours of fun and laughter for the whole family, and consisted of smashing the breast bone of the 'performer' cutting right through the sternum or whatever (performer still alive and giving advice at this stage) and then easing out the lungs so that they lay flapping on the outside of the chest cavity (performer starting to lose interest now) hence 'Blood Eagle' - a Saturday Night special on a par with, lets say Roller Derby.

Now, it gets a little more complex because in 1066 we have as near as dammit a homegenised if frisky Kingdom (thanks to Canute a Danish i.e. Viking King and Harold and Anglo- Saxon King) and you are starting to get 'English' but then, things started to get a little more complex.

The Normans arrived and everyone thought "Bloody French" well, yes, kind of because the came from Normandy which you could piss on if the wind was in a brisk Northerly direction. But they were wrong.

Because this is where it got a little more complicated because the Normans were, in reality, not French, but another fucking Viking offshoot that sailed South and got lost after going to a drive in movie and settled on Omaha Beach.

Now, ironically they defeat the old (nearly) English - poor old harold he was a good man really and the last TRUE saxon King but he didn't see eye to eye with William who was a Viking really (are you following all this) and I suppose that from henceforth that was the true birth of the English and the beginning of the Land of Legend (piracy murder and rapine)

It does only start to get a tad more complex with the fresh influx of Hessians, Dutch and the odd German, which pretty much reinforced the Anglo Saxon heritage but then created conflict with the noisy neighbours i.e. The Irish a conflict that still continues bloodily today the silly sods.

So, after that and the odd unsuccessful Jacobite invasions from the frozen North (FREEEEEEDOM!) is really what the English are mate.

The Irish are Celts. The Scottish are Celts, the Welsh are Celts and the English, well,

THEY'RE BASTARDS!

And kind of proud of it.

Now, you know I didn't Google any of that because their version is much shorter!

OK Jim, Jeff? Gottit? I will ask questions later on cultural diversity in Modrn Europe whilst ripping out some unfortunate Scotsmans lungs. No wrong, I'm an Anglo Saxon, I'm a Duh! farmer...

 

[Keith]

For instance, there is no doubt that David Morton is a Viking and that I am an Anglo - Saxon. That's the difference between us but you would have to be a native to see that.

But, we're both English mate..

Mark, is a Martian.

He was abstracted and tampered with when he was little.

 

[Mark]

careful Keith, I resemble that remark

 

[roaldin]

...and the odd German...

Ah yes, George... Apt description for his descendants - your, correction, our overlords - as well.

Tim.

 

[Jeff Young]

I'm Venusian. That explains why me and Marky scrap sometimes..