Anyone have any idea where to get a decent CAD model of a 302 or 351 long block? There are some floating around that I have found, but the owners want big bucks for access to their models.....Not something I'm interested in. I measured my block and got rough dimensions, but I'm sure there's someone out there with a Romer/FARO arm that grabbed mounting holes, stuff like that...
Old Tornado- Bringing Back to Life
- Thread starter Chally72
- Start date
The project went on hold again for about 3 months, and changed garages twice. Now she's semi-settled again, and the first panels rolled off the laser on Friday! :thumbsup:
I'm still working on the CAD model quite diligently in my spare time away from the garage. I've been using the sheet metal modelling to reduce the number of panels in the wheelwell area. More bends, and quite an origami piece, but it means fewer gaps between panels to worry about sealing. The attached pictures show the very beginning of the wheelwell paneling work, where I had only finalized the lower rear bit.
I'm still working on the CAD model quite diligently in my spare time away from the garage. I've been using the sheet metal modelling to reduce the number of panels in the wheelwell area. More bends, and quite an origami piece, but it means fewer gaps between panels to worry about sealing. The attached pictures show the very beginning of the wheelwell paneling work, where I had only finalized the lower rear bit.
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Hi Dylan!
Quite a project you got there! I am looking myself to start a Gt40 Mk1 project. Trying to find a Mk1 body for a decent price.
About the CAD models. Try looking at grabcad.com. I have found some useful things there. Search for "V8" or chev* or similar. Its for free.
I have also cadded my frame but I use SolidWorks. But I don´t want to start building the frame until i have a body to comfirm with.
Good luck with you project!
/Mike
Quite a project you got there! I am looking myself to start a Gt40 Mk1 project. Trying to find a Mk1 body for a decent price.
About the CAD models. Try looking at grabcad.com. I have found some useful things there. Search for "V8" or chev* or similar. Its for free.
I have also cadded my frame but I use SolidWorks. But I don´t want to start building the frame until i have a body to comfirm with.
Good luck with you project!
/Mike
Hi Mike,
Are you scratchbuilding the frame to your own specifications? Did you base it off someone else's dimensions? As long as your frame is "inside" of the body shells, you needn't worry about which vendor's body you will use until you get around to installing mounting points, correct?
GrabCad is where I got that rough Ford 302 block. The solidworks GT40 Mk1 shell model I am starting to use did not come from there, but I see now it is available on GrabCad. There were a few good engine models available on the site, but the creators simply post renderings of the models and then ask for $$$ if someone wants the solid model. I think this is damaging to the community CAD environment the site is fostering, and I wish they would split these profiteers off into a separate, professional, paid model atmosphere with its own rules and quality expectations.
Are you scratchbuilding the frame to your own specifications? Did you base it off someone else's dimensions? As long as your frame is "inside" of the body shells, you needn't worry about which vendor's body you will use until you get around to installing mounting points, correct?
GrabCad is where I got that rough Ford 302 block. The solidworks GT40 Mk1 shell model I am starting to use did not come from there, but I see now it is available on GrabCad. There were a few good engine models available on the site, but the creators simply post renderings of the models and then ask for $$$ if someone wants the solid model. I think this is damaging to the community CAD environment the site is fostering, and I wish they would split these profiteers off into a separate, professional, paid model atmosphere with its own rules and quality expectations.
Hi Dylan!
My cad model of my frame is based on some drawings I found long time ago. I have also made some modifications that I believe enhance the stiffness.
I have imported a GT40 Mk1 shell that I found on GrabCad into the same CAD to see if it fits but I can't be sure on dimension of the shell I found.
May I ask where did you get your GT40 shell CAD model? If your frame "fits" your shell and my frame fits the shell you use. Then it should be good to go. Right?
Btw, you planing to use carbs or injection?
I'm thinking I'll go with the BMW M60B30/40, it's reliable and light weight.
Regards
Mike
My cad model of my frame is based on some drawings I found long time ago. I have also made some modifications that I believe enhance the stiffness.
I have imported a GT40 Mk1 shell that I found on GrabCad into the same CAD to see if it fits but I can't be sure on dimension of the shell I found.
May I ask where did you get your GT40 shell CAD model? If your frame "fits" your shell and my frame fits the shell you use. Then it should be good to go. Right?
Btw, you planing to use carbs or injection?
I'm thinking I'll go with the BMW M60B30/40, it's reliable and light weight.
Regards
Mike
Your model looks awesome. We also built a model of our KCC chassis. Check it out if you're interested.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-build-logs/34942-kcc-restoration-3.html
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-build-logs/34942-kcc-restoration-3.html
Hi Mike- If you send me the GrabCad link, I can download it and see if it is indeed the one I am using. It isn't perfect, and everyone's shell is going to have differences. Only the most basic of body mount placement will be done in CAD, but it is still going to be useful. I hope to redo the surfaces to more closely match my Tornado shell, and maybe re-upload at the end of the project for those that want to get as close as they can. I'm asking Andy about the possibility of changing my frame up to use a Coyote motor- I think they're fantastic engines and Tornado has already done all the heavy lifting to sort them out.
Hi Simon- I read through your build thread a few months ago with interest. I had to smile at the first posts about "only tearing it down a little".....knowing full-well where that road leads. But, I'm in the same boat, what with a thousand TIG welded rivet holes in my frame now... I can't talk enough about how awesome it is to have CAD models of what you're building. With calipers, a tape measure, and a few days' hard work, you've got a layout to build and test ideas on. I'm sure yours has paid for itself a dozen times over already.
Hi Simon- I read through your build thread a few months ago with interest. I had to smile at the first posts about "only tearing it down a little".....knowing full-well where that road leads. But, I'm in the same boat, what with a thousand TIG welded rivet holes in my frame now... I can't talk enough about how awesome it is to have CAD models of what you're building. With calipers, a tape measure, and a few days' hard work, you've got a layout to build and test ideas on. I'm sure yours has paid for itself a dozen times over already.
Hi Dylan,
Here is the link to the GT40 Mk1 shell I use:
Gt40 - SolidWorks, Other - 3D CAD model - GrabCAD
Thanks for helping. Much appreciated!
/Mike
Here is the link to the GT40 Mk1 shell I use:
Gt40 - SolidWorks, Other - 3D CAD model - GrabCAD
Thanks for helping. Much appreciated!
/Mike
Something unexpected today- On a whim, I called up Ford Racing, spent 20 minutes on the phone with them, and this is the result:
A CAD assembly model of the Coyote engine, with all the trimmings! I was blown away! I did NOT expect them to hand this out, especially since there are ZERO official models floating around the internet of ANY of their engines. Kudos to Ford Racing, this ROCKS!
Very soon, I shall have to change the title of this thread to "A Tornado Coyote Build". Not as exciting as Scott's Carbon Mono MKII, but it will make me smile.
A CAD assembly model of the Coyote engine, with all the trimmings! I was blown away! I did NOT expect them to hand this out, especially since there are ZERO official models floating around the internet of ANY of their engines. Kudos to Ford Racing, this ROCKS!
Very soon, I shall have to change the title of this thread to "A Tornado Coyote Build". Not as exciting as Scott's Carbon Mono MKII, but it will make me smile.
Simplifying a 275mb CAD model is no easy task...each cylinder head in this motor model has had the internal bits removed so as to protect Ford's engineering, yet individually they are still comprised of over 8000 unstitched surface pieces. Because I was impatient today, I only simplified the model enough so I could workably put it in my chassis assembly and take a peek. Eventually, I plan to REALLY clean up the model and offer it up on [http://www.grabcad.com] and to all you enthusiasts.
In the following pictures, I've mocked up actual engine position best I can, what with not having a transaxle and all... and I think I've gotten it within an inch. The extent of the modifications made to Oriol's chassis are immediately made clear when looking at where the engine interferes. The bulkhead has to be tipped forward, and the upper engine framerails moved out along with the suspension mount points. Additionally, the frame crossmember in the middle of the engine compartment must be moved forward a few inches to clear the oil pan. It almost looks like you could leave the upper framerails alone if you aren't running A/C and you relocated the alternator to low down on the passenger side, but then you'd have a helluva bend in the exhaust pipes to get them up and away from the rails, and they'd be right against the plastic cam/coil covers. I'm sure there are a few other minor changes to make down the road.
In the following pictures, I've mocked up actual engine position best I can, what with not having a transaxle and all... and I think I've gotten it within an inch. The extent of the modifications made to Oriol's chassis are immediately made clear when looking at where the engine interferes. The bulkhead has to be tipped forward, and the upper engine framerails moved out along with the suspension mount points. Additionally, the frame crossmember in the middle of the engine compartment must be moved forward a few inches to clear the oil pan. It almost looks like you could leave the upper framerails alone if you aren't running A/C and you relocated the alternator to low down on the passenger side, but then you'd have a helluva bend in the exhaust pipes to get them up and away from the rails, and they'd be right against the plastic cam/coil covers. I'm sure there are a few other minor changes to make down the road.
The tubing has been ordered, and the cuts and welds are being made to transform this Tornado into a Coyote chassis!
I didn't get any pictures of the cutting/bracing work in the rear yet, but here's a few shots from the front, sanding down the last of the welds from the original rivet holes. I shot the chassis with some rustoleum for now. She'll be properly stripped and painted after all the chassis modifications are complete. There's still a bit more welding to do to repair the mess made of the steering column by the previous owner, but I'm in good shape forward of the bulkhead. The giant 3/16" mild steel plates that did double duty as floorpans and anchors have also been cut out, and the chassis is a good 60-70lbs lighter. It was tough to get a cutoff wheel right against the frame, but it helped that the fillets had almost no penetration. There was quite a bit of rust here..the floorpan was only stitch welded and the gap between these and the chassis rails made it the perfect moisture trap.
I didn't get any pictures of the cutting/bracing work in the rear yet, but here's a few shots from the front, sanding down the last of the welds from the original rivet holes. I shot the chassis with some rustoleum for now. She'll be properly stripped and painted after all the chassis modifications are complete. There's still a bit more welding to do to repair the mess made of the steering column by the previous owner, but I'm in good shape forward of the bulkhead. The giant 3/16" mild steel plates that did double duty as floorpans and anchors have also been cut out, and the chassis is a good 60-70lbs lighter. It was tough to get a cutoff wheel right against the frame, but it helped that the fillets had almost no penetration. There was quite a bit of rust here..the floorpan was only stitch welded and the gap between these and the chassis rails made it the perfect moisture trap.
Good evening!
Gt40 - SolidWorks, Other - 3D CAD model - GrabCAD
This model is made by me, but three years ago. Now I'm building a new model, using my new skills and new opportunities Solidworks.
I'm also going to build a GT40, ready to give you a new model when I finish working on it.
Now I'm building a boat.
Дневник "от проекта до ÑпуÑка на воду" -Белый ПаруÑ
Gt40 - SolidWorks, Other - 3D CAD model - GrabCAD
This model is made by me, but three years ago. Now I'm building a new model, using my new skills and new opportunities Solidworks.
I'm also going to build a GT40, ready to give you a new model when I finish working on it.
Now I'm building a boat.
Дневник "от проекта до ÑпуÑка на воду" -Белый ПаруÑ
Ron Earp
Admin
Something unexpected today- On a whim, I called up Ford Racing, spent 20 minutes on the phone with them, and this is the result:
A CAD assembly model of the Coyote engine, with all the trimmings! I was blown away! I did NOT expect them to hand this out, especially since there are ZERO official models floating around the internet of ANY of their engines. Kudos to Ford Racing, this ROCKS!
Awesome!
In racing our Mustangs over the last couple of years we've been talking with Ford Racing fairly frequently. I've learned that when they DO do something, it is done right, BUT, your results vary depending on who you get on the phone. Some calls have resulted in frustration, but others have been big wins - like when we called to get CAD of the 3.8L V6 engine block so we could make a torque plate and viola, we had it inside an hour.
Really? Did you provide it to them knowing they would be giving it out? Neat boat on the build thread.
Hi Boris,
Thanks for sharing the model. Can I ask how you constructed it?
Ron, great to hear that you can get that level of support. I hear so much about the 'corporate structure' of Ford putting a damper on their aftermarket performance efforts.
Another update here.. I got around to repairing the damaged (expanded) framerail. Using about 100lbs of steel plate and a ton of clamps, I secured 3 sides of the tube at a time, put a torch to the 4th, and slowly worked the rail back into shape using a giant steel block and a 4lb sledge. The tube ended up in good shape, with no stress cracks. I'll inspect it more thoroughly, but I think I'm good to go.
I also got most all of the remaining material in for Coyote mods. Those will be the next pictures you see here
In the below pictures, the first is as I was setting up the clamps and backing plates, and the second is after working the rail.
Thanks for sharing the model. Can I ask how you constructed it?
Ron, great to hear that you can get that level of support. I hear so much about the 'corporate structure' of Ford putting a damper on their aftermarket performance efforts.
Another update here.. I got around to repairing the damaged (expanded) framerail. Using about 100lbs of steel plate and a ton of clamps, I secured 3 sides of the tube at a time, put a torch to the 4th, and slowly worked the rail back into shape using a giant steel block and a 4lb sledge. The tube ended up in good shape, with no stress cracks. I'll inspect it more thoroughly, but I think I'm good to go.
I also got most all of the remaining material in for Coyote mods. Those will be the next pictures you see here
In the below pictures, the first is as I was setting up the clamps and backing plates, and the second is after working the rail.
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Hi, Dylan!
Very nice to meet you, and very flattered that my model came in handy for your car. It was the second to be a model.
Because it has shortcomings as a pair of surfaces. Your work has inspired me to try again building a body GT 40 ...
My skills in Solidvorks increased significantly since then, so I hope that I will build a better model. You can watch the process on my forum.
GT40
Not Class A, but it's nice to ...
Very nice to meet you, and very flattered that my model came in handy for your car. It was the second to be a model.
Because it has shortcomings as a pair of surfaces. Your work has inspired me to try again building a body GT 40 ...
My skills in Solidvorks increased significantly since then, so I hope that I will build a better model. You can watch the process on my forum.
GT40
Not Class A, but it's nice to ...
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Nice work!
BTW, at the back of chassis where the main section of the chassis joins into the horseshoe you have it like this.
I did some solidworks modelling, compared the TS40 design, the GTS40 design and a combination of the two.
Now the coyote is rather wider than the SBF so the GTS40 design for the SBF doesn't work with wider DOHC V8's as you'll run into exhaust/chassis interference issues. Yet it's 'stiffer' than the TS40 way. Eventually after some playing with various designs I decided that this way was the best.
As a bonus it's also rather more like the originals.
It might not work for you but thought worth mentioning.
BTW, at the back of chassis where the main section of the chassis joins into the horseshoe you have it like this.
I did some solidworks modelling, compared the TS40 design, the GTS40 design and a combination of the two.
Now the coyote is rather wider than the SBF so the GTS40 design for the SBF doesn't work with wider DOHC V8's as you'll run into exhaust/chassis interference issues. Yet it's 'stiffer' than the TS40 way. Eventually after some playing with various designs I decided that this way was the best.
As a bonus it's also rather more like the originals.
It might not work for you but thought worth mentioning.
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Boris- That is really, really excellent stuff. Thanks so much for sharing, and I will be watching for another model! Many here have already been using your current model.
David- Thank you for your input, but your second picture didn't come through! I'm interested in what you're suggesting if you have time to post again. The picture you have of mine with the Coyote is, of course, with the stock Tornado frame. Like I mentioned earlier, if you relocate the alternator and don't run A/C, it almost looks like you could squeeze the motor into a stock frame with a tight exhaust, but it'd be a darn close fit. I have some plans to move framerails, which I can hopefully show here soon.
David- Thank you for your input, but your second picture didn't come through! I'm interested in what you're suggesting if you have time to post again. The picture you have of mine with the Coyote is, of course, with the stock Tornado frame. Like I mentioned earlier, if you relocate the alternator and don't run A/C, it almost looks like you could squeeze the motor into a stock frame with a tight exhaust, but it'd be a darn close fit. I have some plans to move framerails, which I can hopefully show here soon.
I think I left it too long in between uploading and posting as I got distracted part way through, looked fine on my screen but probably my PC just caching the image.
Should be fixed now, try this link if not:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=64951&d=1366330855
Should be fixed now, try this link if not:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=64951&d=1366330855