Opportunity to buy a GT40 - what kit etc?

[Tim Willis]

Hey guys/girls, first post for me on this forum.

I come looking for advice. Recently my brother was chatting with a workmate who mentioned he has a gt40 he wants to shift. We are located in Australia but the car was South African built and registered in the 1990's by his workmate who then moved here.

Not sure the kit, looks pretty low tech and older (KCC?), runs cortina front and granada rear suspension. It has been fitted with a 350 chev at some stage with audi box. Runs discs on all corners but overall the chassis does look pretty old in quality.

1. Can anyone shed any light on what kit it might be?

It is a pretty cheap option. The current owner is moving back overseas and wants it to go to a good home after the years of work he put into it building it. He is looking around the $5k AUD (~3000 GBP) mark.

My second question goes to the aussies

2. Any idea for registration options? It has never been registered here but was brought in as a private import which might make things easier. Would hate to the go the ICV route which would probably result in a repower by something newer. Not sure a chassis of this type could ever be registered as an ICV, I suspect the construction wouldn't be up to modern standards.

3. Would something with this suspension setup ever have a hope of handling remotely well? I think eventually we would like modernise it a little bit but that would be a few years down the track.

 

[Boettcher Juergen]

Hi Tim,


i am not shure , but it looks like a KVA Version.....A or B Type.....


regards Boetty

 

[clive]

Tim,

At the sort of dollars you are talking, I would grab it with both hands. The bodywork alone is worth a deal more.

Can I refer you to the Australian Cobras forum, where two recent announcements by the authorities in NSW and Vic will hopefully mean a far less combative path to rego, especially for older builds (I think).

It could be worth checking how much steering lock is available. If an original KVA, I suspect they were dreadful, and could have implications for rego.

JMTBW

Clive

 

[Tim Willis]

Ok thanks Clive I will have a look.

Sounds very KVA or a copy of. Talking to the owner / builder he mentioned it was asymmetrical or offsquare which seems to be a KVA trait.

We confirmed that the price will remain at that. The owner is keen for someone to buy it who will put it back on the road and not part it out. He reckons he put a lot of work into it and would be happy to see it back to 'its former glory'.

On the registration path we have had some progress.

It was imported into the country as a personal import and still has full paper work. For registration in qld it will need an LO3 modification plate which covers things such as belts, glass, neck restraints, lights, mirrors and general workmanship. Australian standards for glass may be an issue but I think Aussie sourced glass may be the best solution.

After that its a case of getting the import plate, a roadworthy certificate and registration.

 

[Craig White]

Interesting find Tim. Definitely very cheap.

I'm no expert on personal imports, but here is my take on it and I really hope I am wrong...

I suspect it is going to require a lot of modifications for registration if the year on the import certificate is late. If it's early then you should be in luck with the changes you suggested.

It could be expected to comply with all the ADR's for year of manufacture. The year of manufacture that is listed on the Personal Import Certificate.

Getting personal import approval just means the car can enter the country, doesn't mean it can be registered.

This is what you could be made to do:

* Test/Certification of all the fabricated components: Chassis, Side Intrusion, Suspension, Seats(if not bulkhead mounted), Seat Mounts, Seatbelt Mounts etc.

* Test/Certification for emisisons: you will need an engine that complies with relevant ADR emissions for that year, it must have all of it's emissions systems installed and operating correctly.

* Fit all the ADR compliance required parts for relevant ADR's for that year: Steering Lock, Demister, Windscreen Squirters, Reverse Light, suitable door locks, instrument dimmer, compliant seat belts etc.

* Meet noise requirements.

* Other problem areas: Seat mounts will not comply and you may need to fabricate an entire sub-assembly welded to chassis to support seats. Same goes for seatbelt mounts.

Contact your state transport department as it will be a state matter, not a federal one. The only problem is that this will be a little outside the square, but hopefully you can find someone that can supply the right advice.

Otherwise it can always be a track only car.

There should be plenty of information and assistance around to solve any inherent design/build issues this car may have.

Good luck with it Tim.

 

[Dalton Veitch]

Tim.

It looks like a KVA base to me. The semi-trailing arms can give similar geometry to an earlier 911 (may not be angled correctly, but CAN be OK) so handling can be quite good if you limit the body roll with appropriate anti-roll bars, and I don't know how good the front geometry is. Correct springs and dampers are required, of course.
I assume you want to register and drive this on the road (too low tech for racing), and it could be a really fun car. But please be very clear on rego requiremets. By the time you source correct seatbelts, lights, glass, mirrors, etc. it could really be troublesome. On workmanship, some authorities require photos proving safe installation of wiring in concealed spaces (eg centre tunnels), so be very cautious. Good luck.

 

[Tim Willis]

Yeah the fall back plan is track only but I do think it is a little too low tech.

The registration plan will have to be via personal import if possible. I think there is no way to do an ICV with something so early and in the current state of completion.

So in queensland the process for registration seems to be :

1. Get import approval and import car
2. Vehicle inspection - requires LO3 modification plate (personal import)
3. Send LO3 report with import approval to 'Niddrie' for 'yellow' compliance plate
4. Affix plate, get RWC
5. Take LO3 certification, RWC and import approval to QLD trans - Registered.

The issue is though it has to stay in the original owner / importers name from what we can tell. He is happy with this and appears trustworthy.

Queensland

This is one of a few importers dealing in personal imports. We will give them a call next week to try and confirm.

For LO3 compliance the guide can be found here, about 1/2 way down - 15 yr imports ( QLD codes LO3 ,LO1) - PerformanceForums

A few little things in there do concern me though. e.g. "NOTE: Modifications must comply with all applicable ADRs and Regulations/Acts." That may be a stumbling block.


I think the next step will be to call one of the local compliers who deal with personal imports and see where to from here. I suspect what we are trying to do isnt exactly what the rules were made for.


Appreciate the help, you guys have a lot more experience with this stuff than me!

 

[Craig White]

A few little things in there do concern me though. e.g. "NOTE: Modifications must comply with all applicable ADRs and Regulations/Acts." That may be a stumbling block.

Tim, that is what I am talking about. The regulations assume that the vehicle was a production vehicle and it has not been modified, so it would be compliant with full overseas vehicle compliance requirements. That GT40 is not a production vehicle, never was, so essentially it is one big modification and has never been built to pass even the full overseas requirements.

Technically that vehicle is not an ICV, actually it can never legally be an ICV. It is what it is, a personally imported vehicle. It is a "vehicle" already and already has a VIN/Chassis Number registered in the federal database that all the state registration authorities use.

I am worried the L03(personal import) rules assume we are dealing with production cars and because it is not, it will need to be complied to the ADR's of the year of manufacture on the import certificate. Which is easier than complying to the current ADR's required for ICV compliance.

But the rules are open to interpretation and you may catch a lucky break as it is an L03. And as above, I have not complied L03 before, so certainly no expert.

What I posted above certainly applies to L01 vehicles, I have had experience with complying imported kit cars as L01.

Hopefully that has clarified what I am talking about in the previous post.

If the worst happens and you do find out you need to comply with the applicable ADR's, the earlier the manufacture year on import certificate, the easier it is. That GT40 replica could be quite early.

Hope that helps. You are more than welcome to give me a call or drop into the shop if you think I can be of further assistance.

Also did you see this post, the place to be next weekend if you are into GT40's:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/worldwid...spectacular-qld-australia-25th-26th-june.html

Looks to be exciting times ahead.

 

[Tim Willis]

Thanks Craig, that cleared it up a lot.

I think we will have to get in touch with someone who deals with LO3 a little and get their spin. I suspect I may be have been overly optimistic.

Not sure on the age, the owner is pretty sure he first registered it in the early 90's which doesn't seem to help too much for the LO1 list. We will find out when he drags out the import approval paperwork. Seems like july 88 is a cut off for many things.

I assume that something imported as a personal import could still go through the LO1 list if necessary. Obviously a lot more work but I think a lot of it would be justified and make for a better car at the end of the day.


That QR event sounds good. If I am in Brisbane I will endeavor to get there.

 

[Ian Anderson]

It certainly looks like a Kit Car Center (KCC) car.
They were based just outside Johannesberg in the Mid / late 1980's (next door to Pick and Pay in Benoni. Back then they offered a kit for R25000.

I spent a long time one Saturday morning in their shop drooling over their demonstrator.

And yes the KCC car was based on the KVA early type (not Type C) and a lot of the cars were made with 3 litre V6 engines and VW Transaxles. They used Granada suspension and from memory Cortina subframe on the front end.

There are a few people on this forum that have KCC cars - some modified to twin trailing arms and correct fron suspension. -I believe Southern GT over here does a modification set to chop off the front and rear ends and weld on their bits to make the suspension more like the originals (don't quote me on that but worth an e mail)

Good luck with the project

IAn

 

[Craig White]

Tim, the year on the import approval certificate is the year they will go with. Could be the first year of rego in the UK, could be the chassis year, could be something else.

You will need that year before calling for compliance advice.

 

[Schneider Mike]

Hi Tim.

This replica is definiteley a KCC or a later Gt-D

Exactly like mine.

Suspension works well, ive modified mines with polyurethanbushes.

Brakes are a little to small on the track, on street use the work well.
( Racing for fun)
The weigth is high, 1133 Kgs with me inside. A lot of steel welded.

This price is ok! I paid a lot more for mine, it was registered in Switzerland.

Go on on project, good luck.
If you have some questions more, pm me.

Greez from Switzerland

Mike s

 

[Tim Willis]

Ok cool Mike. Good to hear from someone else with experience. Do you have any more pics of yours?


Got the import approval papers today. Built 1996, imported 2001. Had a talk to a compliance / import company and things are for the best part looking ok.

 

[Craig White]

Sounds like good news, let us know how you go?

 

[Tim Willis]

Car is at home in the garage now.

My brother started a blog if anyone is interested- gt40project.blogspot.com

Its going to be a long path but hopefully before years end we will get it registered. After that the serious work begins.

Craig - Don't suppose you know how the local kits (e.g. the rcr) compare to the overseas ones for body shape? Reason being is that we will be need to source a compliant windscreen and side 'glass'. I will drop you an email for quotes if they are likely to be compatible.

 

[Mark]

Good luck with the project